Usability of 600cc and greater supersports on actual streets

[clintalmighty]

Originally Posted by etiainen

Definitely not rushing into anything!! Just a bit curious is all. I've heard and read a lot of things and just wanted to know what people here thought of a 600cc commuter bike. Financial reasons, not to mention the fact that I'm in the city a lot means I'll be sticking with the 250 for at least the coming year(probably more, I have waaaaaay too much fun on this bike)

If that what you do, then the 250 will be more fun. If you got lots of open highways and backroads or commute the freeway alot, then you are going to like the 600 more. Ride the heck out the 250 though for now!

[Racer x]

I have to go with CC also. I started out with an 05 zzr600 to ride to work every day. And Play on weekends.It was fun. I sold it for a bigger bike. then sold that for the 250 . Now I ride a 50cc scooter all the time. 90 mpg and a blast to ride. I know you don't want a stupid scooter, It is my wife's, I stole it from her.But I am always amazed at how it does everything so well. From groceries to commuting in the rain. The only problem is it drops to a slower than traffic wants to go up hill speed . That is a real problem and sometimes I want to upgrade to a 125 .But then the other 99 % of the time it is just fine . Honestly the Hyabusa is a better behaved bike then most 600 or 1000 race replicas. So it all depends what you want can afford and are willing to put up with.Look at my rear tire and tell me I am not having fun .

[coondog]

I'm starting a new stable next year. 50cc scooters, gussied up they'll even stay with the main road traffic, and the storage is a dream come true, no more bungee cords with stuff hanging off sideways and being crushed when I get home. I'm not talking Aprilia Di Tech factories, just proven engines in Chinese, Thai or Korean plastic. My wife is finally into two wheels because of it as well. Not that I think that is necessarily a good thing but it makes her feel better and excited, that's what counts. As far as original post, I'd get a standard for commuting, not a race bike. 650R and SV650 were both mentioned and are great machines. Sit up, soft seat, plenty of all range power. Every time I see anything about half and full litre in-line fours it's about the bike doing everything for you, that's racing sh*t to me. And I see FI alot as well, give me carbs anyday on a small bike, (I'll outperform you as well with them). Peace out, luck with choices made, and don't think "you can keep it for a year or two and sell it for the same price."

[Jinx250]

Any bike can work as a commuter. Don't confuse that question with "Which do you think is the best commuter?"

I see people on much bigger bikes commuting every day. Really all they do though, is get in my way. Lane splitting is an art, and far too many of the people on SS bikes don't know how to do it. Either that or their bike is too wide, or they're just too scared. No matter, they seriously end up clogging the line between cars when they stop. With the 250, I usually just go around a car and move into the next line over. Of course, once the green light comes, they blow by me at 60+ to show how manly they are.

[almost40]

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

Anyone that has a brain in the head (and reads all the post on this forum) knows that 600s and 1000s are track bikes and should only be ridden by professionals ( or aspiring professionals). I feel even the 250s are too big for local riding and people should ride 50 (or 150) scooters around town. Everyone knows that highway riding is for cruisers (Harleys and Goldwings, BMWs if you're in Europe). I know I might let flamed by those who think differently but if more people rode scooters the roads would be safer.

I used to have a YSR 50...It was a blast to ride. went 50 MPH hot 85+mpg

Would I Agree with all of the above statement? KINDA..The first part anyway.....but not really.

Flames Nah........ Its all good.

I would think maybe a graduated licence.....with proper testing at each level.
Might save a few lives anyway.


I dont have a problem with 600's on the street. Its the "I just got my 250 and I need more power so I traded for a 600" attitude that gets to me a little.........You know that they have riding buddies that own 600's. If you know how to ride and cant keep up with SANE group of riders on 600's while on a 250. Maybe, just maybe they arent so SANE. I SEE PAIN IN THE FUTURE for someone in the group......lots of it.......A GOOD rider has to work to get in trouble on a 250. ANYBODY can get in over their head on a modern 600 in a HURRY.

[zilaniz]

I would probably get something like a triumph tiger for a strictly commuter

or a Supermoto if there wasn't too many highways involved

I dont really like commuting on my R6, too boring

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by almost40

I would think maybe a graduated licence.....with proper testing at each level.
Might save a few lives anyway.

i honestly don't understand why the states don't have this.

[Racer x]

My next scooter will be the Buddy 170i . Fuel injecter 170cc and built on the 50cc frame.They have storage under the seat plus a rear box and 93mpg. I bet the top speed is close to 80mph.O ya they have a cell phone charger and a place for a bottle of coke .all with a 2 year waranty.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Racer x

My next scooter will be the Buddy 170i . Fuel injecter 170cc and built on the 50cc frame.They have storage under the seat plus a rear box and 93mpg. I bet the top speed is close to 80mph.O ya they have a cell phone charger and a place for a bottle of coke .all with a 2 year waranty.

my friend's dad has one... it's seriously sick. i want one so bad... i donno about 80mph though, maybe 70

[n4mwd]

I hate to say it, but Supersports (the Kawasaki kind) are better than the 250 Ninjette in most ways except gas mileage. This includes both safety (at the same speeds) and performance. That said, its a lot easier to ride beyond your skill level on a supersport which may negate its otherwise safer nature. The 250 also doesn't like passengers that well.

In my case, I love my 250 and it does everything I want it to and I plan to ride it until its no longer rideable. At that time, I would seriously consider a ZX-10R.

Another bad thing about the supersports is that they are a bigger target for thieves.

[Jinx250]

Originally Posted by alex.s

i honestly don't understand why the states don't have this.

What's even more mind boggling is that you can buy a motorcycle and not have a license.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

I hate to say it, but Supersports (the Kawasaki kind) are better than the 250 Ninjette in most ways except gas mileage. This includes both safety (at the same speeds) and performance. That said, its a lot easier to ride beyond your skill level on a supersport which may negate its otherwise safer nature. The 250 also doesn't like passengers that well.

In my case, I love my 250 and it does everything I want it to and I plan to ride it until its no longer rideable. At that time, I would seriously consider a ZX-10R.

Another bad thing about the supersports is that they are a bigger target for thieves.

safety? how is a super sport safer? a honda or triumph or maybe a bmw sure... when you've got traction control and abs and so many fancy technical features it makes you want to cry... i could see that being very useful, but many 600 SS bikes (zx6, r6, gsxr6) don't have abs or traction control or wheelie control until you get into litre bikes? i think this is a manufacturer specific thing for example honda and bmw provide abs on most of their bikes... please correct me if i'm wrong but without those features i would think SSs would be highly unsafe compared to a 250 which is much harder to get away from you... also you forgot about a few things the ninjette has that supersports don't... comfort... ease of use... GREAT resale value... hell people are selling these 250s for more than they paid for them in some cases... i dont think you can get away with that with your average r6

[Flashmonkey]

This thread is in danger of being derailed beyond recognition. While I understand that the whole 250 vs SS issue is a sore spot for most, I'm sure the OP would appreciate it if his thread didn't get shut down due to off-topic type shenanigans.

In any case, I believe the original question was answered quite well on the first page.

[thurt88]

I have to drive 60 miles total everyday for work but its mostly highway (55-70mph) with a lot of road construction. I've commuted on my 250r as well as my 600rr. On days that the road construction isnt bad and its not over 100 degrees, I would much rather be on my CBR. In traffic with a bunch of stop and go's the little ninja is the big winner here. The CBR tends to make my hands numb and my leg starts to cramp if im going for more than a 30 min ride. While the ninja is just an all day comfortable ride. Also a big thing I want to mention, my CBR likes to run really hot if I have to sit still at a long light or the road construction is heavy. Both bikes could work well for commuters in my situation so , for me, it all depends on what mood im in on any given day. If I want to ride by the skin of my teeth and try to avoid speeding tickets, its a CBR night. If I wanna sit back and enjoy the ride (not running late for work), its a ninja night.

Here lately tho the temps have been too hot for me to ride to work so I've been using my cavalier with its air conditioner. Its funny that my cavalier gets the same mpg as my CBR.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by alex.s

safety? how is a super sport safer?

Only in that they were designed to travel at higher speeds than the ninjette. Typically they have slightly bigger tires which puts more rubber in contact with the road. Better cornering, better steering, etc. Of course, I'm comparing apples to apples. That is, Ninjette cornering at 60 mph vs ZX-10R cornering at 60 mph. But like I said, the safety advantages are negated when you ride beyond your skill level - which is much easier to do on a super sport.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Only in that they were designed to travel at higher speeds than the ninjette. Typically they have slightly bigger tires which puts more rubber in contact with the road. Better cornering, better steering, etc. Of course, I'm comparing apples to apples. That is, Ninjette cornering at 60 mph vs ZX-10R cornering at 60 mph. But like I said, the safety advantages are negated when you ride beyond your skill level - which is much easier to do on a super sport.

is a sports car safer than a sedan because it handles better?
in terms of a 600ss vs the ninja 250, what about the extra 80 hp sitting there waiting to spin your rear tire? or the extra disk and 6 more caliper pistons waiting to lock up your front tire? how about the 23degree rake angle of SS bikes compared to the 26degrees on the 250? that's quite a big difference. i'm not saying you can't get a ninja 250 out of shape, but its much easier with a bigger bike if you aren't smooth with it... as some have pointed out on this forum even when you get tank slappers on the 250 it's not nearly as much of a challenge to recover it due to the light weight front end and relatively low rake angle. it takes work to get the ninja 250 out of shape... its easy to get a more powerful bike out of shape. you don't see videos of newbee riders accidentally flipping ninja 250s

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by alex.s

is a sports car safer than a sedan because it handles better?
in terms of a 600ss vs the ninja 250, what about the extra 80 hp sitting there waiting to spin your rear tire? or the extra disk and 6 more caliper pistons waiting to lock up your front tire? how about the 23degree rake angle of SS bikes compared to the 26degrees on the 250? that's quite a big difference. i'm not saying you can't get a ninja 250 out of shape, but its much easier with a bigger bike if you aren't smooth with it... as some have pointed out on this forum even when you get tank slappers on the 250 it's not nearly as much of a challenge to recover it due to the light weight front end and relatively low rake angle. it takes work to get the ninja 250 out of shape... its easy to get a more powerful bike out of shape. you don't see videos of newbee riders accidentally flipping ninja 250s

And that is why I love my Ninja 250. But when it wears out, I'm seriously going to consider a ZX-10R.

[rusninja]

why not a zx-6r :S

[Johnnyscoots]

I've driven all manner of bikes, even owned a Kymco People 250. My younger bro had a CBR 600, commuted 20 miles to work one way every day for a year before his back said no mas. He's told me that he'd still be on it if it wasn't for his back...

The 600 supersports have a decided power to weight advantage over any car, the exception being 6 and 7 figure rarified hypercars (Veyron, Mercedes SLR, et al) and can get mid 30's fuel economy (bro said about 36 if he was gentle with the throttle). I love my Ninjette, but I've got the 900 Vulcan Custom (Spock) for longer/freeway trips and trips requiring a passenger. My girlfriend absolutely will not ride ON the Ninjette as a passenger, but she's said she wouldn't mind being the driver! As a commuter, it's better than the Kymco could ever hope to be. Better gas mileage, more power, more manueverability, can actually go up hills, etc. With the 41 tooth rear sprocket it's also relaxed at 70 mph. I've done trips to Jersey (1.5-2 hours, dependent upon traffic) and have only had numb hands as a complaint...and numb feet...and a fuller wallet than if I took my car.

My brother has since moved on to an older Yammy VMax (sold) and now has a V65 Magna. His back is happier. I'm bummed he sold the Max. I've ridden it, and was awestruck by the monster power. The wet noodle frame was kind of scary...

I've started going to the dealership to ogle (drool???) over the 650r, Versys, and especially the Concours-14. The Ninja 1k is also starting to look like a nice future purchase, especially considering it can be outfitted with a Givi topcase (with backrest) and heated grips. But the most logical one would be the 650r. I like the sound of twins over 4's myself, too!

Johnny

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by rusninja

why not a zx-6r :S

Well its tempting, but I really like the ZX-10R. You can get it with ABS now too. The interesting thing is that the ZX-14 is cheaper. The difference in 0-60 acceleration is about the same for the latter.

250R = 5.8 secs (pregen)
ZX-6R = 3.6 secs
ZX-10R = 2.84 secs
ZX-14R = 2.5 secs

It would be nice to have something fast enough to get away from the po po (should I ever decide i need to). I'm not sure a 6R could do that.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

It would be nice to have something fast enough to get away from the po po (should I ever decide i need to).

[almost40]

Lol

[Mizono]

To kinda go back a bit on topic lol. Having gotten the chance to roam around on a R6 yesterday ill say my little piece. A 600cc SS is MORE bike than anyone will ever need on a public road/highway PERIOD. Now i will say i did enjoy the suspension on the R6 it felt better than my 250(yes i know different class but still) The riding position kinda blew but that can be fixed. Power wise once i was used to the bike it was not bad at all. I think it could be a very versatile bike if ridden properly. Again this was my impression so take that for what its worth lol.

I will mention though that possibly the Gixxer may be more commuter friendly given the different mode options so while around town you could tone the bike down a bit. While having the option to let it all out on a long highway stretch.

[rockNroll]

Originally Posted by Mizono

To kinda go back a bit on topic lol. Having gotten the chance to roam around on a R6 yesterday ill say my little piece. A 600cc SS is MORE bike than anyone will ever need on a public road/highway PERIOD.

I have been on public roads/highways many times, needing and using more power than what an R6 has PERIOD.

You don't know everyone, eh?

[ninja250]

The 250 is working it's a$$ off on the streets in Cali. lol
A 600 is definitely "usable" for it's power around here.

[ninja250]

Lol my next will be 1K
I find myself thinking my fuel injected 600 doesn't accelerate fast enough when I'm waiting for it to catch up to my wrist.

CC was right about that one. Dammit. Stupid old guys. Should have went with a 750 like he said!

I think the newer 1000's are lighter than any of the 600's I've owned too. that would just be too wicked. I seen how they can turn the 1000's like we turn our ninjette.

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by ninja250

I find myself thinking my fuel injected 600 doesn't accelerate fast enough when I'm waiting for it to catch up to my wrist.

I think you may be doing something wrong...

[ninja250]

Or really really right!
I'm not talking about going down straight roads in Fla.

Trust me I could use more acceleration.

..and ninja 250's don't tank slap.

600' commute as well as 1K as well as a Corvette or S2000 or Skyline.

I might like a nice reserved sportly black and red BMW one day like I saw on craigslist once..
When I'm 50.

[Mizono]

Originally Posted by rockNroll

I have been on public roads/highways many times, needing and using more power than what an R6 has PERIOD.

You don't know everyone, eh?

Cmon really?

What situation riding and obeying the traffic laws did you need a bike to be able to go over 160+mph or go 0-60 in less than 4 seconds? Unless your in Europe max speed limit in US is what 80mph at most?

Only situations i can think of that warrant more power would be taking long distance rides with cargo on the back.

Motorcycles are fun and different strokes for different folks but for regular riding i just don't see the need for a over 600cc sport bike. feel free to disagree which im sure alot of people do. But that's my outlook on things.

[dubojr1]

Originally Posted by ninja250

Or really really right!
I'm not talking about going down straight roads in Fla.

Trust me I could use more acceleration.

..and ninja 250's don't tank slap.

Should have bought a Honda then I guess. I never had any problems getting my 04 or 08 CBR 600RR to impress me. Just have to keep those revs up. Florida roads or the Tennessee mountains, never needed more. I also owned 07 CBR 1000RR and I can easily say that I would easily prefer my 600's for any commuting or twisties. The 1000RR is only better in longer straights. There no is way you can get any where near the potential of a 1000RR on any public streets. Anyone who says they can is risking his own life and of those around him.

[ninja250]

You haven't seen what I have seen.
Sure, it's a life risk. Some people are much more than willing to take to to have the fun they do. It's the other side of the coin with the ugly gum stuck to it that nobody likes to look at.

There are people out there with amazing potential able to utilize the power of 1K in their backyard, let alone a straight street or a twisty mountain road. It's almost super human.. What some of these people can do while combined with their finely tuned machine.

[HKr1]

Originally Posted by almost40

I understand what your saying Flashmonkey but 95% of the riders out there cant push the stock 250 suspension beyond its limit. They push the bike beyond their own skill limit, not the suspensions. Proper form pays HUGE dividends along with being SMOOTH.
An Advanced group rider (like myself) on a 250 with a stock supension (like mine) will run circles around a 600ss with trick suspension in Intermediate group. I know, Ive done it, many many times. It all boils down to the rider and his skill level. The bikes suspension in stock form is PLENTY capable and on par with any 600 for 95% of the riders out there.
I see those guys at every trackday I attend, They talk like they are fast. Then you nearly a$$ pack them in the corner because they really have no IDEA what the machine they are riding is capable of. My best friend rides an 07 R6. His machine will outperform my 04 FZ in every way. I run a second and a half faster every lap. WHY?? Im alot smoother than he is and more in tune with my bikes limit. When I take his bike onto the track I shave 3/4 of a second off MY lap times compared to my FZ without even trying. Is he a bad rider?? NO. He just doesnt know how far he can take his ability.(which he has plenty of)

LOL.....

[rockNroll]

Originally Posted by Mizono

Cmon really?

What situation riding and obeying the traffic laws did you need a bike to be able to go over 160+mph or go 0-60 in less than 4 seconds? Unless your in Europe max speed limit in US is what 80mph at most?

Only situations i can think of that warrant more power would be taking long distance rides with cargo on the back.

Motorcycles are fun and different strokes for different folks but for regular riding i just don't see the need for a over 600cc sport bike. feel free to disagree which im sure alot of people do. But that's my outlook on things.

First it seemed kinda absolute with the PERIOD, now its your outlook on things.

I never mentioned laws, top speed or 0-60 times. Seems that sometimes folks think they have it figured out, for everyone, but they don't. Just my outlook on things.

[ninja250]

Originally Posted by HKr1

LOL.....

Real funny huh.
The losers that sit there laughing cause half the trouble.
No smarter than the people getting into it.
you're all endangering somebody at some point.

[Johnnyscoots]

Make no bones about it. The power of the 600's, 1k's, VMax, etc. is very intoxicating. There's something about cracking the throttle of a VMax wide open and seeing the world open up in front of you from a singular point just between your eyes. You get the kaleidoscope of color in your peripheral vision, the blast of exhaust pulses caressing your ears, the sheer joy of knowing that the smile on your face is there because of the simplicity of rolling your wrist towards you. And then you roll it away from you so you can do it all over again. That is the allure of the 600's and larger bikes. Do the wrist roll enough times and you can cut your daily commute down by half...and smile more when you get to work...although the Ninjette does that plenty well for me because of it's lightness, turnability, fuel economy, and outright noise.

Johnny

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by Alex

Alex, I think you are seeing things. That's not what a real troll looks like anyway.

[alex.s]

There's really something about being with a group of cars... cracking WOT for a second or two... and all of the sudden not being around any cars within visible distance.

[rusninja]

Originally Posted by alex.s

There's really something about being with a group of cars... cracking WOT for a second or two... and all of the sudden not being around any cars within visible distance.

Hopefully down the street not under a car. XD

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by alex.s

There's really something about being with a group of cars... cracking WOT for a second or two... and all of the sudden not being around any cars within visible distance.

I know what you mean, but unfortunately, all of the previously visible cars are all now busy sending text messages to the highway patrol "Hey a crazy biker dude just passed me doing 300 mph, fire up the helicopter."

[ratlab]

i really don't know what all the drama is with you guys.your acting like 600's and 1000's are the tool of the devil.if you have a brain and throttle control you can ride anything.i have a gsxr 1000 and i can ride it in 6th gear at 3000 rpm and it is completely docile,but i have the safety feature of a lot of torque and power when i need it- it has great tires,suspension and brakes-it is also very light-the riding position is not bad also.i have a 1/4 turn throttle and i'm in no danger of spinning the tire and wheelying unless i want to.i'm diggin the 250,it's a blast,but almost a novelty to me.the ninja is so slow i think it could be dangerous for some riders-so grow up-if you can't control your right hand you have no business on a motorcycle-and by the way-in 15 years of racing and doing track days i have never seen a ninja 250 out perform a 600 or 1000 over a 20min.session-i don't care who is riding it -a tz250 or a rs250 no doubt,but they have twice the hp and 1/2 the weight-if you are smoking some guy on a 600 in your group,he needs to be moved to the c group-you guys need to ride a friends bike or test ride a bigger bike-you will find out for yourself it's not a big deal to move up to something more powerful-what is the real reason you are all afraid to move up?-i really,really don't get it.