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Old February 7th, 2022, 08:00 AM   #41
DannoXYZ
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How it's "sprayed" varies greatly. Ion-plasma deposition isn't quite same as rattle-cans. It's using plasma cutter in controlled process to actually melt metal at surface. Material is actually impregnated deep into cylinder surface. It's much tougher than home DIY ceramic-embedded coatings like Cerakote which just sits on surface. That's an improvement on plastic paints, but nothing like all-metal surface of cylinder coatings. Ford is starting to use similar ion-plasma cylinder prep.

Honda's silicon-carbide cylinders are formed from hollow sponge-like tube matrix 1st. Then the block is casted around it. Molten aluminium is wicked into the sponge to form the MMC cylinders. It's so tough, they have to use diamond-tipped cutting tools to do honing on these cylinders. It's not uncommon to find Honda VFRs with 200K-miles on block. There's actually one that broke 400K miles recently. Mine's only a baby compared to those @ 96K-miles.

One main benefit of these MMC cylinders is reduced friction; significantly smoother than surface of cast-iron (which is actually quite rough at microscopic level). When sliding Porsche piston in, I had to pull it back out because I thought I had forgotten to install rings! It just moved so smoothly! There's actually no break-in needed because the cylinders don't wear. Just run it hard to match rings to cylinders and that's it!
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Old February 7th, 2022, 11:44 AM   #42
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And your supposed to run it hard from the get go eh ?
WOW.... now if they just put ball bearings in everything instead of babbitt bearings the engine bottom ends would last as long as the top ends !
that is amazing... thanks for the info Danno I don't think I would have believed that from anyone else, that is so wild ! hard to believe they have come so far in such a short time !
....
and just in time to run out of gasoline too ! LOL
.... I've always felt that if the manufacturers wanted to they could make a engine to last 500k miles .. but you can's sell parts if you make them indestructible ! they want more re-sales ! why sell 2 cylinders to a guy when you could sell him 6 ...right ? LOL
so I would imagen they upped the price to cover the cost of 6 normal cylinders and they win all the way around !
..... all in all I prefer the indestructible part myself ... LOL

....
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Old February 7th, 2022, 12:50 PM   #43
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Well... 40-years isn't really that short of time-frame in manufacturing technology.

Again "it depends" is my answer.

If you've got old style cast-iron bores with iron rings and cylinder concentricity measured in 1/1000th inch, you'll want to go with old-style honing and extended break-ins. Even so, it's still only 1-2 hours max. I would do this on Ninja 250.
https://www.enginebuildermag.com/201...the-right-way/
https://www.aviationsafetymagazine.c...gine-break-in/


If you've got new MCC liners that are perfectly circular to within 1/10,000th of mm, they don't need break-in and won't wear anyway. Usually hard chrome rings are used with these and need some rough handling to break-in. Heat-cycle once, take it out on road and rev it up and down with increasing load, hit WOT and redline within 10-minutes and you're done! This would be procedure for Ninja 300..
https://www.motorcyclistonline.com/b...break-in-myth/
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Old February 7th, 2022, 01:22 PM   #44
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Well yah ! older technology would demand the same technology of the day to repair it or brake it in etc.etc. obviously that goes without saying...
you couldn't put new rings and hone the cylinder in my 1977 triumph out there and then take it WOT as the brake in..... that just wouldn't work you'ed be pumping oil out of each cylinder for sure !
older technology takes older methods to make it work right.
....
I have to wonder what the future will bring in the way of internal combustion technology ! perhaps the wankle design will come back into favor sense they finally figured out how to keep the wipers in check now... and perhaps adding the new coating and fancy stuff would make then viable again that truly is a marvelous design.... 50hp from a small package the size of a B&S 3.5 hp motor
put one of those in a bike like suzuki did but this time make it reliable and you'd really have something
or perhaps turbine power..... lots more bang for the buck with those
but bike riders like fast acceleration and lots of low end torque the only way you'll get that with a turbine is the clutch ! LOL

I could just see that though setting at a stop light and hearing the bike spooling up to 150k RPM and when the light changes he's gone in a flash.
with smoke from the tire following him the whole way .... I could see that
... won't happen in my life time though california law would prevent that !
HAHAHAHAH
.....
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Old February 7th, 2022, 01:39 PM   #45
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Wankel's great design, extremely smooth! Gas-guzzler though! And loud!

Mazda just patented a 2-stroke turbo engine design... Should make for very good power-to-weight ratios. Modern EFI allows for optimum injection-timing into ports for power and emissions. Although Toyota patented one 20-years go with supercharger for scavenging, never came to market though.

KTM actually has some EFI 2-strokes on market already... Wish we got those here!
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