Ninja with a different wheel

[redkid]

Hi everybody,

Since we allo knows that the Ninja didnt have that much power, weight loss is a good idea. lighter wheel is the common /most sensible mods, but i dont see anyone having a different wheel in their Ninja.
Did Anyone have done it? I want some details of the new wheel weights if possible, as the standard one is more than 12kg with rim mounted, sprocket and disc.

[Motofool]

Reducing weght increases acceleration, but does nothing for top speed.
Reducing weight far from the axis also reduces the resistance to rotation (moment of inertia = m*r^2); for that reason reducing weight of tires and rims is more significant than reducing the weight of brake discs or sprocket.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/mo...que-d_913.html

[Kurgan]

The shop that just tuned my bike had a set of aluminum rims on display that would fit the 250R, I'm guessing the weight at between 5 and 7 pounds per rim.

They said the lighter rims would make the bike accelerate faster, turn easier, and stop quicker. All good things on a bike with so little power.

The only real problem was the price.......$2200 for a front & rear set fully mounted and balanced.

Basically he said that it wasn't worth it unless I was going to be racing on a track.

[InvisiBill]

According to this post, the stock wheels themselves are 4.60kg (10.1lb) and 5.30kg (11.7lb). Average tire weights to fit those wheels are 3.691 kg and 4.740 kg, to keep things in perspective.

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...749#post892749 has some wheel/tire weight info too. The bare VRossi wheels were 1.68lb lighter in front, but the wider rear wheel is 0.41lb heavier compared to stock.

Short of spending a lot of money, you're not going to get major weight savings on the wheels. Even spending a bunch of money on really good wheels, you're still only saving a few pounds. The best place to trim weight is unsprung, rotating mass, and it's definitely an improvement (my bike sure seems to accelerate a bit more easily with the VRossi wheels), but you're talking about half the bike's MSRP. Most people simply don't think the results are worth the price.

[redkid]

Yeah, i'm glad we all were in the same page, my concern is killing laptime.

I forgot to mention that i raced with the Ninja and with the regulations so strict that we must race the bike in 'showroom condition' i have to look elsewhere to fight with those big teams that race that have the bike setup worth a zx6r,which still looks 'showroom condition'

My bike currently resides at 146kg wet (after race weight). I didn't weigh the bike with another scale than the one provided by the scrutineering, but that is the one that counts.

[Somchai]

Red with a weight of 146 kg wet you'd at least reach the best value already
It only makes me wonder what all you'd take away since that's around 25 kg down?

[micoulisninja]

Originally Posted by redkid

Yeah, i'm glad we all were in the same page, my concern is killing laptime.

I forgot to mention that i raced with the Ninja and with the regulations so strict that we must race the bike in 'showroom condition' i have to look elsewhere to fight with those big teams that race that have the bike setup worth a zx6r,which still looks 'showroom condition'

My bike currently resides at 146kg wet (after race weight). I didn't weigh the bike with another scale than the one provided by the scrutineering, but that is the one that counts.

Roland has a point !! Your bike is already light !! much lighter than mine too (I have taken out most unnecessary stuff, other than front and rear light and have a Li-ion battery) maybe I could save off an extra 5 kgs but that's it and it weighs 163kg with a full tank...so about 150 on an almost empty tank...
maybe you should look for some other kind of upgrade for making better lap times (tyres, suspension, brakes, engine, electric etc...)

For example... I am currently experimenting with an electric water pump off a piaggio scooter that seems to let more power from the engine reach the rear wheel... have just began cathcing up with my project again, will update as soon as I have solid results...
Since you have lights removed and only need charge for the fuel pump, injectors and PC V, if the race is below 15km of distance you could run it on a 12pack or more Li-ion battery with the stator/rotor assembly (and maybe the starter too) removed for some extra quick revving and a few extra torque...
Imporatnt weight saving could come from a plastic stock-looking fuel tank... but it is difficult to make and costly...

[bruce71198]

Originally Posted by micoulisninja

Roland has a point !! Your bike is already light !! much lighter than mine too (I have taken out most unnecessary stuff, other than front and rear light and have a Li-ion battery) maybe I could save off an extra 5 kgs but that's it and it weighs 163kg with a full tank...so about 150 on an almost empty tank...
maybe you should look for some other kind of upgrade for making better lap times (tyres, suspension, brakes, engine, electric etc...)

For example... I am currently experimenting with an electric water pump off a piaggio scooter that seems to let more power from the engine reach the rear wheel... have just began cathcing up with my project again, will update as soon as I have solid results...
Since you have lights removed and only need charge for the fuel pump, injectors and PC V, if the race is below 15km of distance you could run it on a 12pack or more Li-ion battery with the stator/rotor assembly (and maybe the starter too) removed for some extra quick revving and a few extra torque...
Imporatnt weight saving could come from a plastic stock-looking fuel tank... but it is difficult to make and costly...

Many of your diesels run an electric circulating pump for the heater core that pumps enough water volume to cool the ninja. I had the part # for a Bosch one but can't seem to find it.

[micoulisninja]

Originally Posted by bruce71198

Many of your diesels run an electric circulating pump for the heater core that pumps enough water volume to cool the ninja. I had the part # for a Bosch one but can't seem to find it.

well that would be an interesting option Bruce !! hope you will find it, still fiddlling with fitting the ZX-6 moving parts on the crank and block, so take your time and try to find it, please... thank you in advance for the assistance !

[Somchai]

Congrats Nick, that's a great plan - the electric waterpump means min. 3 hp more.
The Bosch nr. is 0 392 020 024, good luck for your project

And a word about the Diesels, since they have a much higher efficiency than a benzine engine the problem is that they don't become so warm/hot and therefore they need as an addition the electric waterpump or better an auxiliary heating.

[choneofakind]

...benzine engine?

[genosr1]

we have the bosch pumps on our bikes , they work great, drill 2 small holes in thermostat to prevent dead heading pump

[Somchai]

Thanks Chon to remind me, yes the right name is: Ottomotor

[choneofakind]

Good grief, stop being an asshat, rowland. I was asking a question. I've never heard a gas engine referred to as a benzine engine so I asked...

[redkid]

Originally Posted by Somchai

Red with a weight of 146 kg wet you'd at least reach the best value already
It only makes me wonder what all you'd take away since that's around 25 kg down?

I don't list down what i have removed, it's probably longer that the list of what remains on the bike! LOL. I did get the bike tear down,and only mounts necessary things only, and so many hours looking at the parts list. lights removed, Li-ion, thermostat (hot climate here), KOSO dash and so many of the little things like front stay, rad stay, some Ti-bolts. i even have some attempt to remove certain compulsory thing like speed sensor but ended up mounting it again coz it throws FI light.

some more things that is in my list is the front stay from motoholders, and the wheels.

Suspension have been upgraded with gsxr shock-complimentary from the write-ups here, and heavier front spring with the new 146kg

[redkid]

Originally Posted by Somchai

Congrats Nick, that's a great plan - the electric waterpump means min. 3 hp more.
The Bosch nr. is 0 392 020 024, good luck for your project

And a word about the Diesels, since they have a much higher efficiency than a benzine engine the problem is that they don't become so warm/hot and therefore they need as an addition the electric waterpump or better an auxiliary heating.

Have anyone done it on their Ninja250?i know this already but no one have done it to the bike..i wonder if its OK on a daily bike which runs on a Lifepo4 battery...

[redkid]

Originally Posted by micoulisninja

Since you have lights removed and only need charge for the fuel pump, injectors and PC V, if the race is below 15km of distance you could run it on a 12pack or more Li-ion battery with the stator/rotor assembly (and maybe the starter too) removed for some extra quick revving and a few extra torque...
Imporatnt weight saving could come from a plastic stock-looking fuel tank... but it is difficult to make and costly...

the race is 45km distance.. besides, i dont want to total loss system,since i'm a believer in " To finish first, first you must finish" ..too many risks on these

[micoulisninja]

Originally Posted by redkid

the race is 45km distance.. besides, i dont want to total loss system,since i'm a believer in " To finish first, first you must finish" ..too many risks on these

well, can't argue with that !!

[micoulisninja]

Originally Posted by Somchai

Congrats Nick, that's a great plan - the electric waterpump means min. 3 hp more.
The Bosch nr. is 0 392 020 024, good luck for your project

And a word about the Diesels, since they have a much higher efficiency than a benzine engine the problem is that they don't become so warm/hot and therefore they need as an addition the electric waterpump or better an auxiliary heating.

Thank you Roland once again for the part nr !! minimum of 3 extra hp ? well I never believed it would make that much of a gain !!

well what you say about the diesels I don't quite understand it, but to ask in simpler words, do you think there are drawbacks with this option ??
or something I should be careful of ?

[micoulisninja]

Originally Posted by genosr1

we have the bosch pumps on our bikes , they work great, drill 2 small holes in thermostat to prevent dead heading pump

thank you for the tip, I already have the thermostat drilled..
but I do not understand what you mean by "dead heading pump"
is that some kind of problem ?

[Somchai]

Red I'm not sure if someone's done this mod up to now, but I guess nobody did...
If I still would live in Germany I'd have done it long ago.

Nick, there must be no fear about drawbacks, the only risc I see is that the pump is not working and you won't realize that while riding.
Some guys in Germany did this with bigger bikes and from what I'd read in most cases the raise in power was up to 4 hp (different from bike to bike), so I think for the Ninjette also 3 hp should be possible.
But maybe genosr1 could give some more detailed information?

I would install it with a switch and turn it on after the engine's running and after turning the engine off I would let it run for 30 to 60 seconds longer.

About the Diesels you must know that the heater is never as warm as with the Ottomotor, so you need a second system to get the inside of the car warm. A car with a Diesel in Germany or another northern country in Wintertime without this secondary system will not be very different to a refrigerator.

[bruce71198]

Originally Posted by micoulisninja

thank you for the tip, I already have the thermostat drilled..
but I do not understand what you mean by "dead heading pump"
is that some kind of problem ?

Dead head= no where for the coolant to flow while the thermostat is closed.
Geno's the guy who turned me on to this, he may be able to supply a part number.

[micoulisninja]

thank you all for the very interesting info !! An electric pump is schedjuled !!
I think RacerX has been running his bike on one...