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Old April 26th, 2016, 06:27 AM   #1
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I guess he didn't take the MSF

Some riders are just clueless. No signal. No mirror check. No head check. And the best part? He's pissed off. Does he actually think the other party was at fault?

Link to original page on YouTube.

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Old April 26th, 2016, 06:38 AM   #2
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Very avoidable
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Old April 26th, 2016, 06:44 AM   #3
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Very avoidable
By BOTH sides. The driver of the SUV had to have been paying no attention at all to miss the bike coming over.
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Old April 26th, 2016, 06:53 AM   #4
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SUV guy has no idea what the bike is doing. Bike maneuver is too unpredictable (stupid) to anticipate.
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Old April 26th, 2016, 07:00 AM   #5
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@Brother Michigan

I put the blame on the bike, the SUV could have avoided this as well, looks like he increases speed as the bike starts drifting into his lane, but the fault goes to the biker.
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Old April 26th, 2016, 07:01 AM   #6
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Almost two whole seconds pass between when the bike initiates his lane change and when contact occurs. Whether or not the driver could have predicted it, there's more than enough time to react. I'm not trying to remove fault from the rider (I NEVER would have tried to change lanes with that little space), but the driver could have avoided the incident as easily as the rider.
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Old April 26th, 2016, 07:14 AM   #7
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Yes but SUV guy is thinking I am here and I will speed up so he does not move into my spot. Bike to stupid to look. Bike 95% at fault and 100% responsable.
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Old April 26th, 2016, 08:37 AM   #8
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Pipes weren't loud enough.
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Old April 26th, 2016, 10:21 AM   #9
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Quote:
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Almost two whole seconds pass between when the bike initiates his lane change and when contact occurs. Whether or not the driver could have predicted it, there's more than enough time to react. I'm not trying to remove fault from the rider (I NEVER would have tried to change lanes with that little space), but the driver could have avoided the incident as easily as the rider.


What was that girl thinking?
I would not even go for a walk in the park with that guy.

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Old April 26th, 2016, 02:17 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Michigan View Post
Almost two whole seconds pass between when the bike initiates his lane change and when contact occurs.
You can see in the corner of the back-facing camera shot that the driver is looking down towards his dash/stereo/gps/phone just before impact. Hence he didn't react to the half-wit rider.

I was thinking just the other day about how inattentiveness appears to be increasing in the general population in the UK. Lots of people are staring at their gadgets; paying attention to an entirely different world than the one that is happening physically around them. I think this issue is compounded by the fact that so many things are made safe these days and personal responsibility is outsourced to the government. I think this perception of safety combined with a lack of personal responsibility results in people having a lower sense of general-threat and thus they exercise less caution.

My car is comfy and has airbags; It's safe, I'll just send this text OH SH*T I hit a cyclist.
This street has traffic lights; of course I can cross on a green without looking OH SH*T someone jumped a red.
This is a safety knife, I don't have to concentrate while opening this box OH SH*T I just cut myself.
Credit is cheap and my banker tells me the interest rates are projected to stay low OH SH*T the market just imploded and I lost my job... and my house.
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Old April 26th, 2016, 02:32 PM   #11
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I definitely think driving has become too easy and cars have become too appliance-like. It leads to too many people who don't pay attention, and that extends beyond a driver's interactions with others on the road. Just last night I was driving my fiance's car to take us to dinner and I was noticing some hard shifts. I asked her how long it had been doing "that" and she just looked at me like I was speaking in tongues and asked what I was talking about.
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Old April 26th, 2016, 02:44 PM   #12
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Pipes weren't loud enough.
Darn you! Beat me to it!
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Old April 26th, 2016, 08:03 PM   #13
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I was thinking just the other day about how inattentiveness appears to be increasing in the general population in the UK. Lots of people are staring at their gadgets; paying attention to an entirely different world than the one that is happening physically around them. I think this issue is compounded by the fact that so many things are made safe these days
Happening here in the US, too. People think nothing of looking at their phones while driving, instead of at the actual road. Makes me crazy, the things people do while this extremely heavy machine is doing... something. They have no idea what it's doing or what's in front of it.

Quote:
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I definitely think driving has become too easy and cars have become too appliance-like. It leads to too many people who don't pay attention, and that extends beyond a driver's interactions with others on the road. Just last night I was driving my fiance's car to take us to dinner and I was noticing some hard shifts. I asked her how long it had been doing "that" and she just looked at me like I was speaking in tongues and asked what I was talking about.
Yep. People don't think about what the car's doing- they just get in and push the gas. I think a lot of people ride their bikes the same way- just go. They don't think about what other vehicles will do, or how to ride well, they just do it unthinkingly. I've got a guy I work with like that- he had a bike in the past (though he never had a license) - he'd drag a knee in the corners because he thought it "looked cool."
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Old April 26th, 2016, 09:20 PM   #14
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Old April 27th, 2016, 04:27 AM   #15
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Yeah, I can't side too much with the rider here. You've GOT to look when changing lanes. Every time. And you have to hold your lane if you're not changing over. The driver should have been watching, too, because some riders don't behave.
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Old April 27th, 2016, 06:07 AM   #16
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^ if just one of them had been driving well, then the crash wouldn't have happened.

In my time of driving and riding I've made some stupid mistakes. Luckily for me, when they happened, I didn't meet another driver also making stupid mistakes, so there was no incident.

Someone told me (and I think it's relatively good advice):
Quote:
You're aloud one stupid mistake a year. If you're making more mistakes than that then you need to step back from your driving and really reconsider how you're doing things.
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Old April 29th, 2016, 08:29 PM   #17
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Stupid is as stupid does, the bike rider was complacent in getting over and the driver was distracted, which led to this accident.

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Old May 1st, 2016, 06:34 AM   #18
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I agree with what's posted above. The rider (for whatever reason) made some assumptions that he shouldn't have. What I don't get is that he did it with a passenger!

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Old May 3rd, 2016, 07:50 AM   #19
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My only guess is that the biker assumed the car was taking the ramp there. Not sure where the bike was at the beginning of the video, but the car did come in from the right and quickly get all the way over to the left lane; he might have seen that and figured he was getting over for the ramp.

The rider changed lanes (without any checking or signalling) directly into the side of the car. The only thing I can think of that might absolve him of any share of the responsibility is if the car had left its blinker on from the lane changes, which would be signalling that he was taking the ramp. Even so, the rider should've actually checked to see if the car was already in the spot where he was trying to put the bike (to me, that's basic self-preservation instinct).

The driver does occasionally glance down toward the radio area. He doesn't appear to be stereotypical "texting & driving" or anything like that. He might have just been glancing down at the clock or checking GPS or something. You can see him checking his mirrors while he's stopped, and he has a dashcam, so I don't think he's a typical oblivious driver. If he had been fully focused directly on the road ahead, he may have been able to avoid the bike. Keep in mind that moving around in the lane can make it harder to recognize when a bike is changing lanes. He started out in the middle/right of his lane, so the driver may have assumed the bike was just adjusting his lane position until it was too late to react.

If your defense is that you expect people to react quickly and correctly when you do something obviously stupid, you're gonna have a bad time. Always look to see if there's something in the way of where you're trying to put your bike, even if nothing is supposed to be there.
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Old May 3rd, 2016, 06:19 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InvisiBill View Post
...
If your defense is that you expect people to react quickly and correctly when you do something obviously stupid, you're gonna have a bad time
...
Attached Images
File Type: png bad time.png (173.9 KB, 2 views)
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Old May 7th, 2016, 02:47 PM   #21
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Looks like one of those people who got me to run into their BMW... Asian with a dashcam; we had the same insurance Co. Apparently that lady has paid for at least 3 cars by repeatedly wrecking them always with the other person at fault, adjuster was like "congrats you just paid off her car and she is making a profit"
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Old May 7th, 2016, 06:45 PM   #22
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So you were found at fault based on the the dashcam footage?
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Old May 9th, 2016, 10:52 AM   #23
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Quote:
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If your defense is that you expect people to react quickly and correctly when you do something obviously stupid, you're gonna have a bad time.
More people need to hear these words.

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Looks like one of those people who got me to run into their BMW... Asian with a dashcam; we had the same insurance Co. Apparently that lady has paid for at least 3 cars by repeatedly wrecking them always with the other person at fault, adjuster was like "congrats you just paid off her car and she is making a profit"
To be fair, dashcam footage is pretty hard evidence to dispute when discussing fault. Totaling her car 3 times is a sign she should probably work on her defensive driving though. Stay vigilant and ride as if everyone else around you is a terrible driver.
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Old May 12th, 2016, 08:42 PM   #24
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So you were found at fault based on the the dashcam footage?

Yea lady slammed her breaks in front of me... I hit her, law said it was my fault, camera was evidence
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Old May 12th, 2016, 08:45 PM   #25
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To be fair, dashcam footage is pretty hard evidence to dispute when discussing fault. Totaling her car 3 times is a sign she should probably work on her defensive driving though. Stay vigilant and ride as if everyone else around you is a terrible driver.
Indeed!
It was obvious she got me to hit her too everyone, but when the law says you're at fault what ya gonna do???
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Old May 15th, 2016, 03:56 AM   #26
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It was obvious she got me to hit her too everyone, but when the law says you're at fault what ya gonna do???
I could be wrong about this, but I think the vast majority of people on the road (outside of war zones & violent third world countries) don't want to hurt others, steal from them (via insurance scams) or cause suffering. It sounds like you got unlucky and met one of those rare sociopaths that isn't part of that majority.

I struggle a little bit with how much I should adjust my riding to account for malice. I think there is some difference between riding defensively to protect yourself from stupidity, carelessness and human-error and riding defensively to protect yourself from active attack.

I guess some kind of balance has to be found. At the extreme end, where you assume everyone is an enemy, you would make very slow progress on your rides. I imagine it would be like traversing a city in a war zone. You'd have to start your ride with a map of the area and a mission plan! I think that is too extreme though. Thinking more practically, we could consider what the common threats are and how best to defend against them. This then reduces the probability of being successfully attacked. Some common acts of malice which might be worth learning to defend against are:
  • Angry car/truck drivers that suddenly turn homicidal when you cut them up, flip them off or beep/flash at them. There was some discussion of how to defend from this in this road rage thread.
  • People pulling insurance scams by suddenly slamming on the breaks in attempt to get the driver behind to crash into you. I guess the obvious defence is to assume that all people in front of us are planning on slamming on their breaks in order to defraud insurance companies. The main defence I can think of is to always leave an adequate stopping distance and have a dash cam (incase they actually reverse).

Link to original page on YouTube.

I'm sure there's other things worth defending against. I haven't thought about it that much.

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Old May 15th, 2016, 12:39 PM   #27
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Most normal people are basically honest.

Even the insurance said she was a crook, but they couldn't do nothing about it because all of her "accidents" are "proven" not her fault. My insurance stayed the same and they paid her off... So I guess no harm no foul
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Old May 15th, 2016, 07:32 PM   #28
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Yea lady slammed her breaks in front of me... I hit her, law said it was my fault, camera was evidence
That's horrible!!! Did she have a front camera or a rear camera? If she just slams on the brakes without reason, shouldn't that prove that she was just trying to cause an accident?
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Old May 16th, 2016, 10:54 AM   #29
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That's horrible!!! Did she have a front camera or a rear camera? If she just slams on the brakes without reason, shouldn't that prove that she was just trying to cause an accident?
Idk I know she had a rear one... We didn't go to court, we had the same insurance; police man gave me an at fault paper and said our insurance could handle it from there. It was the second time she slammed her brakes, first time I stopped second time I just started cursing. In nc if someone slams their brakes the person in the rear is still at fault as well.
I couldn't believe it, and it seemed to get worse and worse the more I thought about it, but the insurance was pretty cool about it. Such is life
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Old May 19th, 2016, 05:43 AM   #30
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The first time I saw this I expected the rider to get into his lane but SPEED UP instead is slowed down. I dont think the rider 1. knew where he was going 2 wasnt paying attention. If i was the one driving I would have slowed down SLIGHTLY because I would have assumed he would have sped up even if he cut me off. from what I see in the video he swerved into his lane then slowed down.
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