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Old August 26th, 2015, 03:29 AM   #1
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Need New Rear Shock

I think the damper on my rear shock is dead. It's a very bouncy ride now :S

The linkage below the shock looks wet, so I'm guessing a seal has blown and the oil has all come out.

Soooo... can anyone recommend a replacement shock? Anyone have any experience with how the OEM shock fairs up against the aftermarket shocks?

This one is on my radar:
http://www.brooksuspension.co.uk/kaw...ber-08-12.html

Also: what happened to the ninjette wiki? I went to look there for advice and it seems empty.
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Old August 26th, 2015, 05:14 AM   #2
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almost any after market rear shock absorber will work better than stock...
depends on the kind of money you have to invest...
cheap way out is off a gsxr 600 '04-'08 mod or a zx-6...
I think looking around, there are several threads of how tos and feedback of result...
I have a gsxr rear on my 250 and very happy with it... maybe a little on the stiff side for the spring but I am heavy and ride a lot with passenger....
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Old August 26th, 2015, 06:42 AM   #3
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The NewGen rear shock has a very decent spring, and valving isn't half bad for street use, it's a popular upgrade for the PreGen, and the EX500.

On my PreGen I went with the ZX6 shock, it's nice to have the air adjustment, comes in handy for two-up rides. I did it before I knew about the NewGen option.

If your into a more spirited riding, and you money is good, then aftermarket it is, but if you were satisfied with the OEM shock, then stick with that, and look on eBay.

Something else to keep in mind is, if you change the rear suspension, then you'll also need to do the forks to match to get the full advantage of the suspension.

Don't forget to set the sag.

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Old August 26th, 2015, 07:05 AM   #4
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Thanks for the advice so far guys.

@Ghostt - I wont be able to afford new front forks. Would it be really bad to do nothing with the front and only improve the rear?
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Old August 26th, 2015, 07:24 AM   #5
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Just doing the rear is not like a fatal sin or anything. A couple of us raced the whole season on stock fronts with upgraded rears a couple of years ago. It makes you really notice how soft the front can be but if you don't outride your weakest link, it's just fine.
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Old August 26th, 2015, 07:25 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akima View Post
Thanks for the advice so far guys.

@Ghostt - I wont be able to afford new front forks. Would it be really bad to do nothing with the front and only improve the rear?
Odds are the NewGen front springs are adequate for your needs, and weight, as long as you under 220 lbs, or about 16 stones like myself.

You could look into in these, http://store.ricorshocks.com/product...20-1001nin.htm

Here's some more information about the subject,

https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=186192

Getting the suspension set up is the best performance upgrade you can do to the NewGen, and better tyres completes it.

Setting the sag is critical to complete the dialing in process.

You'll notice the difference when you upgrade the front, especially under braking, and under hard braking you'll really notice.
@InvisiBill is more up on suspension than me, shoot him a PM, he can explain it better than me perhaps
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Old August 26th, 2015, 07:32 AM   #7
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I definitely don't outride my weakest link... well... maybe now that my bike has no dampening on the rear I do.

I'm hoping to get my rear shock sorted ASAP so I can enjoy what's left of the warm weather and dry roads. I've had to slow down quite a bit since this problem started as my bike literally bounces up and down through the corners and the rear likes to break loose when I take off from a stand-still on even slightly dirty ground. I didn't appreciate my shock damper until I lost it!
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Old August 26th, 2015, 09:37 AM   #8
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I've done quite a bit of research and played around with a few different options on my 500, but definitely listen to the guys here who actually have real-world experience on these bikes.

Getting the spring right for your weight will allow the bike to bounce the proper amount. That allows the damping to have the best control over that movement. If your spring is too soft, it will bounce around too much and your damping system will have to work harder to try to constrain that extra movement. If the spring is too stiff, it won't compress enough to absorb bumps, and the wheel will skip. http://www.ex-500.com/wiki/index.php...ension_Preload is a long read, but it has tons of info, and I think it does a good job explaining everything with examples.

According to RT's calculator, the rear spring is ideal for someone who weighs 220lb (100kg). People here have said that may not be exactly right, but the spring is definitely quite stiff compared to the other little Ninjas (it's 73% stiffer than the 500 spring). I'm assuming you're lighter than that, so going to a softer spring should make the rear work better for you. The PreGen's spring is good for about 140lb on a NewGen, but the shock is a little shorter so it would lower the rear and make the handling a bit slower (plus it lacks any preload adjustment). If you can find a decent one cheap on eBay, it might be worth tossing one in just to try it out though (they're usually ~$20 here).

The stock shocks are simple, non-adjustable, non-rebuildable, lowest-bidder units. Aftermarket shocks give you more adjustment options for tweaking the damping system (usually separate for compression and rebound) and are built with higher quality, replaceable parts (so when something wears out on it, you just replace that one part instead of buying a whole new shock). £395 is US$615 which seems somewhat expensive to me. A new Penske is about $800 here, and used ones can be half that. The nice thing about buying a new shock is that they generally include a spring and calibration to match your weight. It should be basically a perfect drop-in upgrade.

If you can do a bit of mod work, the GSX-R shock swap is a pretty cheap way to get a decent shock, and there are a variety of spring rates used on the various models (there's a chart of different rates/weights toward the end of the thread). It's not made specifically for the Ninja's suspension, and requires a bit of work to make it fit, but they're usually on eBay for about 1/10 the cost of that Brook shock. The SV650 shock doesn't have all the adjustments (it's comparable to our stock shock) but should require less work to install, as another cheap DIY option that's probably more suited to your weight.


NewGen Fork Spring Rate Chart
Again, the NewGen has the stiffest fork springs of the little Ninjas. It's still a tad low, but should be acceptable if you're smaller. If you're a fatty like me, it's still quite a ways off, but it is possible for it to match up fairly well to the weight of a smaller adult (unlike the PreGen and 500, which have essentially useless fork springs).

The stock front and rear are pretty mismatched, so if you're smaller and go with a lighter rear spring, you're actually reducing that mismatch and making it less-bad than stock. On the PreGen and 500, replacing a soft rear spring with something appropriate can exacerbate the problems of the super-soft fork springs (because you're increasing the mismatch).
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Old August 26th, 2015, 09:38 AM   #9
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Also: what happened to the ninjette wiki? I went to look there for advice and it seems empty.
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=239245
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Old August 26th, 2015, 10:41 AM   #10
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Thanks for the big write-up InvisiBill. I'm closer to 10 stone, so I will make sure I get a soft spring that matches my weight.

Based on what you guys have said and what my usual mechanic has said, I think I'll get an after market shock. I like the idea of getting a slight performance upgrade and having something that can be fixed if it goes wrong. I'm planning on keeping my 250R for a long time
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Old August 26th, 2015, 11:59 AM   #11
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Thanks @InvisiBill for answering the call.
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Old August 26th, 2015, 02:44 PM   #12
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Sportisi has these too.

http://sportisimotorsport.us/index.p...ndex&cPath=1_3
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Old August 27th, 2015, 05:14 PM   #13
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For what its worth, with some hand tools and a few hours in the garage, a GSXR stock shock as mentioned above will fit with little adjustment, gives you more adjustability over the stock shock, and allows you to stay within a reasonable budget. GSXR shock plus dog bones to correct ride height are around $60 or so altogether...if you were interested...
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Old August 28th, 2015, 04:31 PM   #14
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If I was more mechanically inclined and I actually had some decent tools, then I would probably go down the GSXR shock route.

Currently I don't even own a stand to pick my bike up off the ground so I can take the wheels off. I decided a while back that riding is the thing I love about bikes; not the fixing/maintenance of them. I have someone who does most the work on my bike and doesn't charge too much for it.

I think if I was to start buying tools it would probably be quite some time before I even broke even from the savings of not using my usual mechanic. That wouldn't be factoring in my time either. Also! I don't have a garage and the UK is cold... and I'm a wuss when it comes to the cold!

tl;dr gonna buy an aftermarket 250R shock and pay someone to fit it... then I can ride fast again!
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Old September 2nd, 2015, 07:41 AM   #15
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I've been putting off the purchase of a shock as it's expensive, but I think I should just get it over with rather than risk damaging the bike (I've been riding it without a functioning damper). boing boing boing

GSXR mod:
I don't have the time/skills/tools to do this.

Nitron:
http://www.nitron.co.uk/catalogue_it...2&prodID=74190
£393.6 ($602.07 US) (price without the hydraulic preload adjuster)
This is my favourite so far.
* Fully serviceable.
* I've got 2 recommendations from both the mechanics I normally use.
* They're a British company that advertise as being able to last the "harshest of winters."
* Nice website where I can pick a spring from a drop down list of rider weights
* I like the colour!
Main downsides are:
* You can't independently adjust compression and rebound. They are adjusted together.
* This is the upper limit of my budget.

Hagon:
http://www.hagon-shocks.co.uk/catalo...?partno=M64018
£299.50 ($458.16 US)
This is a £100 cheaper.
Again: fully serviceable.
Again: looks like you can't independently adjust compression and rebound.

Ohlins:
https://www.ohlins.eu/en/motorcycle/...-KA-840--4454/
€855 (£627.47) ($960.11 US)
Too expensive! (soo~ pretty though!)

Penske:
Too expensive.
Also: it would spend it's days weeping in sorrow, wishing it was on a track bike being ridden by someone skilled. I just couldn't, in good conscience put a shock through that
Edit: damn. Missed this.

Sportisi shocks:
http://sportisimotorsport.us/index.p...ndex&cPath=1_3
The prices would look good... if I lived in the states. After I add shipping and potentially import tax it steps up.
Also: being a US company, it could be difficult and expensive dealing with them if I have problems. Nitron are based in Oxford which is riding distance from me.
On the plus side, these Sportsi shocks are more adjustable than the Hagon and Nitron.

Used Stock Ninja 250R Shock:
They're going for ~£100 inc postage.
I've been pretty happy with the suspension on my ninjette (though I don't know any better/worse).
Another £200 and I can get a brand new [and better] Hagon shock. Doesn't seem worth while going for a used again. Especially considering the fact that it's not really serviceable, so if I damage this shock I have to buy another replacement again.

It's looking like I will be going with the Nitron. Any further advice/suggestions would be appreciated.

@Whiskey - you have any experience with Nitron or Hagon shocks?
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Old September 2nd, 2015, 12:43 PM   #16
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No first hand experience with either, from what I've seen elsewhere Nitron seem to get solid reviews, Hagon can be hit & miss.

Wilbers seem to be a favourite from the guys at Biker.ie (A fair few year round bikers there, their 5 year guarentee helps). There's a range for the 250, the one with seperately adjustable compression & rebound is above your budget

http://www.bits4motorbikes.co.uk/Wil...ml?listID=1781
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Old September 2nd, 2015, 12:52 PM   #17
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No first hand experience with either, from what I've seen elsewhere Nitron seem to get solid reviews, Hagon can be hit & miss.

Wilbers seem to be a favourite from the guys at Biker.ie (A fair few year round bikers there, their 5 year guarentee helps). There's a range for the 250, the one with seperately adjustable compression & rebound is above your budget

http://www.bits4motorbikes.co.uk/Wil...ml?listID=1781
Awesome, thanks. I'll look into these Wilbers shocks too.
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Old September 2nd, 2015, 12:56 PM   #18
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Akima I have a stock shock from my '08 sitting on my bench that I'll send you if you just pick up shipping. That way you can just spend the money on the front end and see more benefit.

Let me know.
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Old September 2nd, 2015, 12:58 PM   #19
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I've seen some people recommend Hagon for the 500. They seem to be much less common in the US though. I had never heard of Nitron before this.

Ohlins and Penske are top of the line, and probably overkill for most commuters. I picked up a used Penske for $400 because it was too good a deal to pass up. Over a year later, it's still waiting to be installed because the NewGen shock's spring rate was such a huge upgrade for me that I haven't been motivated to swap it out.

Holy crap! I bought two used NewGen shocks off eBay for $25 each or less. I wouldn't pay anywhere near £100 for one. The idea here is to get a stock (i.e. "good enough") replacement for dirt cheap, so anything priced near a good aftermarket shock is a bad deal.

It might be worth your time to have someone do the DIY mod for you. Again, it depends on prices over there, but if you can get a GSX-R shock for $40 and pay someone $50 to do the work for you, that's still only £60 (which seems to be the cheapest option by a longshot). I'm not sure how much shipping would be, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone here was willing to pick one up and mod it to fit the 250 for only a small fee to cover their time (with purchase and shipping costs covered, obviously) so you could just bolt it on. While it may not be perfect, it's very cheap and actually beats some of the more expensive aftermarket options on features (e.g. 3-way adjustment). Even though I have less than no need for another shock, I actually thought about picking up a GSXR shock to play with just because they're so cheap.


But the Nitron looks pretty good. If you're willing to spend that much, it should end up being basically a perfect shock/spring for you, with a drop-in install. From what I've seen of Hagon, it should be pretty similar. Hopefully someone with firsthand experience can chime in.

Note that the style of shock pictured for the Nitron and Penske are smaller at the bottom end, so they won't interfere with the dogbones like the larger GSXR shock does. It's just one less thing to worry about.
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Old September 2nd, 2015, 01:04 PM   #20
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I really don't know how happy she'd be with the GSXR mod. I only remember seeing one pic of her here and think she's pretty light. I'm ~190-200 lbs geared up and with the preload backed all the way out I can barely reach the minimum sag. It's pretty stiff with that spring on it.
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Old September 2nd, 2015, 01:24 PM   #21
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@ForceofWill - thanks for the kind offer. I will definitely consider that. What shock are you using in your Ninjette then?

@InvisiBill - all the used newgen shocks on ebay seem to be in the states and it's the shipping charge and the possible extra import tax (I don't always get charged that) that brings it up to ~£100.

Your comment about interfering with the dogbones was kind-of alarming to me! I do know people locally who could do the mod for me, I just feel uneasy about it as I'm not someone that can easily spot issues and tighten up or adjust things to sort them out. The GSXR mod sounds great for someone who is more in touch with their bike and has a good understanding of what the risks and considerations are.

I appreciate your suggestion all the same.
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Old September 2nd, 2015, 02:08 PM   #22
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@ForceofWill - thanks for the kind offer. I will definitely consider that. What shock are you using in your Ninjette then?

@InvisiBill - all the used newgen shocks on ebay seem to be in the states and it's the shipping charge and the possible extra import tax (I don't always get charged that) that brings it up to ~£100.

Your comment about interfering with the dogbones was kind-of alarming to me! I do know people locally who could do the mod for me, I just feel uneasy about it as I'm not someone that can easily spot issues and tighten up or adjust things to sort them out. The GSXR mod sounds great for someone who is more in touch with their bike and has a good understanding of what the risks and considerations are.

I appreciate your suggestion all the same.
I have the gsxr on.
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Old September 3rd, 2015, 09:06 AM   #23
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I have the gsxr on.
I second the GSXR rear shock - worth the experience of doing it, or at least find a mechanic who will do it for you - for the price! BUT it will be way to stiff for you/her - Like ForceofWill, Im in the same boat and find it too stiff. For the price you can't beat it!
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Old September 3rd, 2015, 01:07 PM   #24
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@InvisiBill - all the used newgen shocks on ebay seem to be in the states and it's the shipping charge and the possible extra import tax (I don't always get charged that) that brings it up to ~£100.

Your comment about interfering with the dogbones was kind-of alarming to me! I do know people locally who could do the mod for me, I just feel uneasy about it as I'm not someone that can easily spot issues and tighten up or adjust things to sort them out. The GSXR mod sounds great for someone who is more in touch with their bike and has a good understanding of what the risks and considerations are.

I appreciate your suggestion all the same.
Ah. I can see overseas shipping and taxes adding on a significant amount. It just amazes me that it would cost you 6x what it cost me. Bleh, eBay is stupid. I just did a quick search on the UK site, and even though it converted the US prices into £, it still showed the shipping rates to the US, not the UK. Taking ForceofWill up on his offer (if shipping/import is cheap enough) is less than ideal for your weight, but it gets your bike back to exactly where it was before, for pretty cheap.

Yeah, the GSXR shock is built similar to our stock shocks, where the bottom of the spring extends down pretty close to the bottom of the whole shock unit. The GSXR (and the SV to some extent) use larger diameter springs, so you need to space out the dogbones to provide extra room. This is covered in the DIY, so it shouldn't be something that would surprise you the first time you ride it. Even the SV shock can require some spacing, though a few washers or bowed dogbones (like the ones FOG makes) are enough to accommodate that spring on the 500. http://i.imgur.com/kYFbDcW.jpg is a good pic of how the dogbones interact with a stock-style shock/spring. The aftermarket shocks use a shorter spring section, so there's just sort of a post sticking down to bottom mounting point, meaning much less chance of interference in the dogbone area.

Someone should be able to do the necessary modding to the shock mounting points and include the spacers and bolts necessary to make the GSXR shock a bolt-in upgrade. Due to the low price of the shock compared to its features, it could still be a good deal even if you have to pay someone to do all the work to make it fit (though it's obviously a better deal if you can do the work yourself for free). When you're starting at 1/10 the cost of an aftermarket shock, you have a lot of room to spend and still remain cheaper overall. That's all I was trying to get at.
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Old September 3rd, 2015, 01:07 PM   #25
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MOTM - Aug '15
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForceofWill View Post
I really don't know how happy she'd be with the GSXR mod. I only remember seeing one pic of her here and think she's pretty light. I'm ~190-200 lbs geared up and with the preload backed all the way out I can barely reach the minimum sag. It's pretty stiff with that spring on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattRichling View Post
I second the GSXR rear shock - worth the experience of doing it, or at least find a mechanic who will do it for you - for the price! BUT it will be way to stiff for you/her - Like ForceofWill, Im in the same boat and find it too stiff. For the price you can't beat it!
The '06-'09 GSXR600 shock mentioned in the DIY has basically the same spring rate as the stock shock. While I agree that it seems to be too stiff for many 250 riders, it's no worse than the stocker.

The other GSXR years/sizes have a variety of other spring rates. Looking at eBay pics, some of them seem to have the piggyback reservoir at different angles which might make them harder to fit in a Ninjette. However, you may be able to buy a second, slightly-different GSXR shock for $25 to get the spring rate you want, and just swap it onto the DIY shock. The 03-04 GSXR1000's 480# spring is probably closest for you guys, listed for a 172-181lb rider (without gear). They seem to have a lot of lower and higher rates, but not much in the middle. RT lists them as using different spring series, but the pics on eBay (1000, 600) look like they might be fairly similar, if someone wants to do some experimenting.
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Old September 23rd, 2015, 08:27 AM   #26
akima
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MOTM - Oct '13
Update:

Being a bit low on cash I took @ForceofWill up on his offer. He sent his 08 rear shock to me and it arrived yesterday! It's in much better condition than I imagined it would be. My broken shock is looking pretty horrendous compared his. Mine has visible rust, wear and flaking paint. British weather? I frequently ride in the rain.

I've recently bought a Honda CBR250R rear hugger for my ninjette. I think that will help preserve my new-to-me rear shock better than my last one.

I've never picked up a motorcycle rear shock before. It felt pretty heavy. Is the Ninjette 08+ stock shock quite a heavy shock compared to many other bikes with similar shocks? Would a typical Penske replacement shock be much lighter?

Anyway: plan is to get it fitted very soon so I can enjoy faster cornering again with what remains of the summer. At a later date I'm going to upgrade my front and rear suspension to something better now that I know what a difference it makes. I'll get them tuned up nicely for my weight too.

Thanks to everyone for your help and extra thanks to Tom for the hardware!
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Old September 23rd, 2015, 11:59 AM   #27
ForceofWill
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Glad it got to you ok. Swap that thing in lol.
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Old September 23rd, 2015, 01:22 PM   #28
ninjamunky85
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MOTM - Nov '14
Quote:
Originally Posted by akima View Post
I've never picked up a motorcycle rear shock before. It felt pretty heavy. Is the Ninjette 08+ stock shock quite a heavy shock compared to many other bikes with similar shocks? Would a typical Penske replacement shock be much lighter?
Nope all motorcycle shocks are heavy, it's just the way they are built. They have to be made to take a lot of force. You've got a big thick heavy steel spring there and that weighs quite a bit. Another option to get a titanium spring, but that is obviously very expensive.

I'm hoping that carbon fiber springs like these catch on soon as I think that looks like the best option. http://www.hypercoils.com/carbon-composite-springs
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Old September 24th, 2015, 11:25 AM   #29
InvisiBill
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MOTM - Aug '15
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjamunky85 View Post
Nope all motorcycle shocks are heavy, it's just the way they are built. They have to be made to take a lot of force. You've got a big thick heavy steel spring there and that weighs quite a bit. Another option to get a titanium spring, but that is obviously very expensive.

I'm hoping that carbon fiber springs like these catch on soon as I think that looks like the best option. http://www.hypercoils.com/carbon-composite-springs
Those are pretty cool, but springs don't add a huge amount of weight for the average Ninjette rider. The 450# 6x2" spring off my Penske weighs just a hair under 2lb according to my digital scale. The 300# EX500 spring (similar to the PreGen spring, but more coils) is just over 2.25lb. There are other benefits to that CCBS setup, but I saved 8lb just by replacing my stock mufflers with Sarachus, so 2lb isn't a huge deal in my mind. Losing weight is good, but I wouldn't spend hundreds of dollars solely to switch away from a "heavy" steel spring.
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Old September 24th, 2015, 11:30 AM   #30
InvisiBill
EX500 full of EX250 parts
 
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MOTM - Aug '15
Quote:
Originally Posted by akima View Post
I've recently bought a Honda CBR250R rear hugger for my ninjette. I think that will help preserve my new-to-me rear shock better than my last one.
I don't think it will help as much as you're hoping. Look at http://i.imgur.com/kYFbDcW.jpg again. Most of the shock sticks below the swingarm, including pretty much all of the moving parts. It can only help, but any fender on top of the swingarm is inherently not going to be adding much directly between the tire and the shock body.

There was an aftermarket hugger that actually extended down below the swingarm, putting itself a lot more directly between the tire and moving parts of the shock. I don't remember which one it was, but I saw it in a thread here...
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Old September 24th, 2015, 11:58 AM   #31
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MOTM - Jun '17, May '16, Mar '15
Another option is to get a shock boot that they use for off-road bikes.

Something like these, http://www.ebay.com/itm/270mm-Rear-S...b99716&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GSXR1000-Hay...b917f6&vxp=mtr
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