Communist Alert!

[2WheelGuy]

Peninsula Harley Davidson in Redwood City California has closed its doors. Another motorcycle shop lost. Only through eternal vigilance and continued riding can we turn the tide of communist attacks on our way of life!

[Snake]

Communists... and here I thought the cold war was over.

[sombo]

WTF does this have to do with communism?

[Flashmonkey]

In mother Russia, store closes you!

[bob706]

Originally Posted by Flashmonkey

In mother Russia, store closes you!

[Sailariel]

Say What??

[addy126]

Originally Posted by sombo

WTF does this have to do with communism?

+ 1 However in an odd way, I'm sure there is something behind his thought process.

[backinthesaddleagain]

maybe the commies are attacking HD and taking over with CZ?

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by sombo

WTF does this have to do with communism?

Shut up, Commie!

I think it's an older version of the same joke as facetiously saying "if [insert undesireable eventuality], the terrorists win."

[00NissanNinja]

Originally Posted by Flashmonkey

In mother Russia, store closes you!

classic if only I could hear you say that with a russian accent.

[hybridxx]

yep yep...
one in redlands just recently closed to.
not a huge fan of harley davidson, but still sucks to see another motorcycle shop hit the floor.

[AndyRavag3]

Originally Posted by 00NissanNinja

classic if only I could hear you say that with a russian accent.

We all know everyone who reads that will say it with a russian accent in their head

[highpsiguy]

Should not be making fun of 2WheelGuy. I find it quite rude actually. He is right. It may not be "communism" as you know it, but fascism/corperatism. The America that I was raised in and love is beginning to collapse. We are going to go into a depression very soon with no way out. It will make the Great Depression of the 30s look like a spring picnic on a sunny afternoon. Our Constitution/Bill of Rights is being ignored and trampled on by our leaders. All of our "ways of life" will be changing drastically VERY soon. Prepare.

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdalv...eature=related

http://www.publiceye.org/fascist/corporatism.html

[backinthesaddleagain]

I am waiting for a demotivational pic to show up here. Like some commie gals drinking vodka while scantily clad. Oh well one can only hope...


Tony Montana: I kill a communist for fun, but for a green card, I gonna carve him up real nice.

Sherriff Buford T. Justice: And that's nothing but pure and simple old-fashioned communism. Happens every time one of those dancers starts poontangin' around with those show folk fags.

[2WheelGuy]

I've been waiting for someone to understand but I give up. I can't believe you are all too young to remember the teachings of Joe Bob Biggs.

For backinthesaddleagain:

[FrugalNinja250]

What killed that shop and will kill HD is the fact that middleclass real incomes have been dropping like a stone for the last ten years. The less people who can afford to spend $20-30 thousand on what is for most a recreational vehicle the less that sell. In other words, a shrinking market, made worse by piss-poor CEO decisions (where have we seen that before, eh?).

Like it or not, the bottom 95% of the economic ladder *are* the market and represent most all of the two thirds of this economy that is consumer spending.

If HD wants to sell more bikes one of two things need to happen. Either we the consumer's income goes up, or HD makes something that our consumer's reduced spending ability can afford.

It's just math, and not even really complicated math at that.

[Anteraan]

It could also be that H-D sells low-quality garbage compared to their competitors...and it could be that the government (and the citizens who continue to elect them) of the "Golden IOU State" has been on a (out-of-touch with reality-based) spending binge for years, and there just isn't much money left...along with everything else mentioned here.

Take your pick.

[backinthesaddleagain]

HD itself was giving financing to anyone with a pulse. That model was practiced by the mortgage industry and it didn't work out too well with houses which over time typically appreciate, never mind bikes which depreciate FAST.

[backinthesaddleagain]

BTW great poster Craig

[2WheelGuy]

It's not just Harley. In the past year in my area we've lost:

Penninsula Harley Redwood City - Harley
MDK Motorsports Redwood City - Kawasaki, Suzuki, Honda, Aprilla, Bennelli
Bike World Sunnyvale - Kawasaki, Suzuki
Bay Area Motorsports Burlingame - Yamaha
Golden Gate Harley Davidson - Harley
Marin BMW - BMW

Those are just a few I can think of in my area. Pretty soon there won't be a place to buy motorcycles anymore. They will go the way of Drive In Movie Theaters.

[sombo]

There are lots of things going on in HD that are leading to it's downfall, but it all starts with it's management. Through articles of interviews with HD upper management I've learned a number of things that makes me believe HD has less then 5yrs to live.

To start they have completely lost touch with the buyers market. The CEO was quoted once as saying "Why would anyone buy a sport bike?" This along with them believing it's not necessary to get into racing to help promote sport bikes, lead them to selling MV Agusta and closing Buell. They just don't understand, nor want to understand sport bikes which is a major part of the market.

They also think their bikes already appeal to the under 35 crowd. Sorry to say but most people in that group that I know of are more into the sport bikes then HD's. Their "plans" for getting out of their own recession is basically nothing. All they said in interviews was to give out more incentives and rebates to bring in buyers.

Then there's the fact that over the last couple years they have taken over $2 billion in bailout money to give to their customers in the way of loans for their bikes. The only problem is the rates they are charging customers is less then the rates they have to pay back to the government. So they are losing money no matter what. It's just a matter of time before they fail completely due to poor management and lack of leadership, innovation, and understanding of the current motorcycle buyers market.

[Alex]

Mike -

Putting aside completely whether many folks on this board are appreciative or unappreciative of Harley motorcycles themselves, from a company standpoint, the doomsday scenarios are a little much. There isn't a CEO of any motorcycle company on the planet that wouldn't rather have the financial resources and marketplace standing of Harley compared to their own. Perhaps except for Honda.

If Harley has 5 years to live, every other bike manufacturer we hold near and dear has about 2.5 weeks, based on sales, profits, growth, marketplace penetration, etc.

[Hadyn]

No biggie. H-D could stop selling bikes today and still make a fortune on merch sales alone for YEARS.

[sombo]

I'm just stating the truth Alex. I have nothing against HD as a bike. I just read alot of articles about the leadership there and the direction they are trying to go in. Those articles show that the current leadership of HD is driving the company into the ground due to their lack of understanding the market.

I also have to disagree. If HD was in such great shape compared to the rest as you suggest then they wouldn't be making more closings, layoffs, selling off assets, and moving their HQ. They are in trouble, have been for years and have no clue how to fix it. They are losing money every year while the competition does actually make profit. They have the least amount of resources from any of the bike manufacturers, not the most. They have borrowed more then they can pay back, have no other means of revenue, no large cash holding, and certainly no other departments to help with R-and-D.

Look at the big 4 from Japan. Honda makes just about every kind of motorized vehicle known to man along with having a page long list of other companies they own that are in other markets. Kawasaki is the biggest heavy industry manufacturer in Japan making everything from large construction vehicles to ocean merchant ships. Yamaha is still one of the largest manufacturers of musical instruments in the world (hence the 3 tuning forks for their emblem). And Suzuki is also into multiple vehicle products lines like Honda is. They have tons more to draw from then HD does.

HD won't even accept that sport bikes are a major part of the motorcycle industry let alone try to grab that part of the market. They have more loans then assets, and their buyer base is getting smaller every year. It's not doomsday, it's stating facts. They need new leadership and a whole new attitude if they want to survive the next 5 years. I don't like the idea of them going down either, but if they don't do a complete 180 in upper management that's what is going to happen.

Besides this isn't the first time they've been in trouble of closing. They nearly closed doors back in the late 70's. It was saved by 2 investors in 1981 who made major changes and slowly brought back their customers. HD is in desperate need of that again. Right now they are right back to where they were in the late 70's and need new leadership to turn them around, the current leadership doesn't seem capable of doing so. Let's hope they prove me wrong.

[00NissanNinja]

Originally Posted by AndyRavag3

We all know everyone who reads that will say it with a russian accent in their head

I said it out loud in a russian accent lol

[Alex]

Originally Posted by sombo

I'm just stating the truth Alex.

Nope. You're stating an opinion that's shared by folks shorting the stock, and by people who don't own cruisers and can't understand why someone would choose one instead of a sportbike. Even in this craptastic market for motorcycles, down almost 50% in one year, Harley remains the number one seller of motorcycles by unit sales and by total revenue in the US.

Their market is growing older, but that is the same for just about every motorcycle company. Average age of motorcyclist has gone from late 20's 40 years ago, to late 40's now. Sure would be nice to be able to start changing those demographics, and Harley would be well served to try, but there hasn't been much success by any brand to slow that shift.

I have no love for the brand, and no particular love for the bikes. But they're going to be just fine.

[CC Cowboy]

I got this month's Motorcyclist magazine a couple of days ago. Almost the entire issue is about Harley Davidson bikes. I never knew they made such fantastic bikes. Very stylish and it appears they are even looking to take on the entry level with the new Road Glide Ultra (if I had known they were coming out with this bike I might not have purchased the 250). They have a race series dedicated to the XR1200X. I think they have the best looking naked bike.

[CZroe]

Originally Posted by sombo

I'm just stating the truth Alex. I have nothing against HD as a bike. I just read alot of articles about the leadership there and the direction they are trying to go in. Those articles show that the current leadership of HD is driving the company into the ground due to their lack of understanding the market.

I also have to disagree. If HD was in such great shape compared to the rest as you suggest then they wouldn't be making more closings, layoffs, selling off assets, and moving their HQ. They are in trouble, have been for years and have no clue how to fix it. They are losing money every year while the competition does actually make profit. They have the least amount of resources from any of the bike manufacturers, not the most. They have borrowed more then they can pay back, have no other means of revenue, no large cash holding, and certainly no other departments to help with R-and-D.

Look at the big 4 from Japan. Honda makes just about every kind of motorized vehicle known to man along with having a page long list of other companies they own that are in other markets. Kawasaki is the biggest heavy industry manufacturer in Japan making everything from large construction vehicles to ocean merchant ships. Yamaha is still one of the largest manufacturers of musical instruments in the world (hence the 3 tuning forks for their emblem). And Suzuki is also into multiple vehicle products lines like Honda is. They have tons more to draw from then HD does.

HD won't even accept that sport bikes are a major part of the motorcycle industry let alone try to grab that part of the market. They have more loans then assets, and their buyer base is getting smaller every year. It's not doomsday, it's stating facts. They need new leadership and a whole new attitude if they want to survive the next 5 years. I don't like the idea of them going down either, but if they don't do a complete 180 in upper management that's what is going to happen.

Besides this isn't the first time they've been in trouble of closing. They nearly closed doors back in the late 70's. It was saved by 2 investors in 1981 who made major changes and slowly brought back their customers. HD is in desperate need of that again. Right now they are right back to where they were in the late 70's and need new leadership to turn them around, the current leadership doesn't seem capable of doing so. Let's hope they prove me wrong.

Japan is VERY different. In the dial-up Internet days, Toyota was the number 1 ISP (Japan's "AOL"). I read article after article contrasting their views with the US and demonstrating that they didn't understand what was wrong with the whole "monopoly" thing. Companies there are encouraged to move in and dominate every market they can, while MS gets slapped on the wrists for trying to compete in the browser and office suite software market while also making an OS. By law, American companies CAN'T behave like Japanese companies. You can't fault them for that, so a comparison is useless unless you limit it to the market in which they compete (motorcycles).

[backinthesaddleagain]

Tarriff on foreign bikes 750CC and over helped HD in the mid 80's. Took the V45 (45 CI) out of the V45 Interceptor.

[Daeldren]

Thinking about a Suzuki Savage next, damn commi propeganda

[Alex]

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

Very stylish and it appears they are even looking to take on the entry level with the new Road Glide Ultra...