How to shim the needles without removing the carburetors?

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by focus101

so guy i took the washers out found out that there were in the way of that plastic keeper thing, so now the bike is running but it cuts off and rev up on its own, any idea what that might be??

The bike is likely out of tune still. You need to check your idle mix screw settings, your fuel level height in the carbs, and your sync between the carbs. Put your exhaust on and resume tuning. You're in stock settings now correct? If so leave them that way for the time being. It would help a lot if you explain things in more detail in the future though.

[focus101]

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

The bike is likely out of tune still. You need to check your idle mix screw settings, your fuel level height in the carbs, and your sync between the carbs. Put your exhaust on and resume tuning. You're in stock settings now correct? If so leave them that way for the time being. It would help a lot if you explain things in more detail in the future though.

Yea the bike is back to stock now but, I had flooded the carb and drained the float bowl and realized that the carb was dirty (alot of dirty) so what im going to do is clean the carb (the previous owner said I was a new carb but idk looks clean on the ouside) im aldo going to rejet via a factory pro jet kit..

[focus101]

And like i said the bike was running fine before I touched the carb, took the washers that I put n out and now its running alot better just sometimes it revs on its own then we it returns to idle its shuts off..
And thanks guys for your input

Ps I am putting that slip on on the bike tomorrow..

Shawn

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by focus101

so guy i took the washers out found out that there were in the way of that plastic keeper thing, so now the bike is running but it cuts off and rev up on its own, any idea what that might be??

Try again - something still isn't assembled correctly.

[focus101]

Originally Posted by jkv45

Try again - something still isn't assembled correctly.

Just trying to find out what can be assembled wrong its only 3 part the diaphragm and I know thats not damaged..

[focus101]

Originally Posted by jkv45

Try again - something still isn't assembled correctly.

Just trying to find out what can be assembled wrong, its only 3 parts in the diaphragm and I know thats not damaged..

[jkv45]

After you have it back together reach in the airbox and lift the slide with your finger, then let it go - will it drop right back down smoothly and firmly?

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by jkv45

After you have it back together reach in the airbox and lift the slide with your finger, then let it go - will it drop right back down smoothly and firmly?

^^^ This.

I run factory pro jets/needles and I recommend them especially for your new exhaust setup.

When you say it revs on its own I am thinking the rpms are hanging but I need confirmation. Could you post a vid of your bike's issue?

[focus101]

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

^^^ This.

I run factory pro jets/needles and I recommend them especially for your new exhaust setup.

When you say it revs on its own I am thinking the rpms are hanging but I need confirmation. Could you post a vid of your bike's issue?

right now i have the carb out of bike waiting for the new jets..

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by focus101

right now i have the carb out of bike waiting for the new jets..

Ok, did you go with factory pro?

[focus101]

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

Ok, did you go with factory pro?

Yes I did go with factory pro, im goin to clean and rejet this weekend, do u have any suggestions on how I go about the install and tuning after? And im goin with a k&n pod and a slip on any advice on the jets I should use??

Thanks

[choneofakind]

Set the mix screws at 2.5 turns out from bottom.

Put needle in recommended slot.

try the 105. test ride.
try the 108. test ride.
try the 110. test ride.
try the 112. test ride.

Pick the best one.


Now you get to play with needle height until you find the right position. Likely, you'll end up in/near the center slot.


Adjust mix screw as needed for easy starts without getting bogging when warmed.




It's 100% dependent on your bike, your location, etc etc. The only way to really get it right is to test them all out. We can't just tell you what jets/needle height/mix screw setting you'll need. Welcome to jetting.

[focus101]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Set the mix screws at 2.5 turns out from bottom.

Put needle in recommended slot.

try the 105. test ride.
try the 108. test ride.
try the 110. test ride.
try the 112. test ride.

Pick the best one.


Now you get to play with needle height until you find the right position. Likely, you'll end up in/near the center slot.


Adjust mix screw as needed for easy starts without getting bogging when warmed.




It's 100% dependent on your bike, your location, etc etc. The only way to really get it right is to test them all out. We can't just tell you what jets/needle height/mix screw setting you'll need. Welcome to jetting.

Ok I can tell this is goin to be fun and time consuming lol but this is goin be a good learning experience for me to, now when u say 2.5 turns from the bottom u mean from the lowest setting?? And I start the new needle from the lowest setting too? And wat about the pilot jet??

Shawn

[focus101]

And yes I understand that the bike itself and elevation takes a big roll in Jetting..

[jkv45]

Originally Posted by focus101

Yes I did go with factory pro, im goin to clean and rejet this weekend, do u have any suggestions on how I go about the install and tuning after? And im goin with a k&n pod and a slip on any advice on the jets I should use??

Thanks

Only advice I have is get it running normally before adding a slip-on and pod filters. Otherwise you will be adding more variables and complication to an unsolved problem.

You can get some opinions on pod filters, but most of the time you'll lose more with them than you will gain. A well designed airbox is usually overall superior. Generally pods kill your throttle response and midrange torque, but return slightly higher peak HP numbers. Not the best trade-off for a Ninja 250 on the street IMO, but others may disagree...

[choneofakind]

Okay, let's see.

I'm in NE Ohio, my elevation is roughly 1000 feet, and I ride in summer time. Temps range from 50-95.

Intake: K&N pod
Exhaust: Full Muzzy (Two Brothers cans basically act like stockers in my experience)
Pilot jets: stock 38 (or whatever those are) Keihin
Mix screws: 2.5 turns out (adjust as necessary)
Needle height: 3 washers shimming the stock needles (not sure which clip position this equates to. Likely somewhere in the middle)
Main jet: 110 Keihin (you likely will end up with a 108. I found that was *just* a bit too small for my setup)



When I say 2.5 turns out, I mean turn the mix screws in with a screw driver until they're *just* snugged. Then back them out 2.5 turns. Keep track of how far out they go. I could likely back mine out another 1/16-1/8 of a turn to help with cold starts (and add less fuel with the choke at startup) but I've found that it doesn't bog or hang when I blip, so I'll leave it where it is.

I think factory pro will supply some directions in the kit for how to rejet. If not, here's their online directions:
http://www.factorypro.com/tech/tech_...m_engines.html
I *think* they'll have you start in the middle clip position and adjust from there. Use some SAE#4 washers to get 'half steps' between clip positions if needed. Yes, one little washer will make a noticeable difference. The only thing I'd do differently from the directions I just linked is add to their needle test. I personally also like to run through a curvy road in 2nd or 3rd gear (no shifting) and roll on and off smoothly. You'll want to do these smooth roll ons and roll offs everywhere from 3000 to 13000 rpm. Engine speed isn't the important thing here, testing the fueling in the mid-throttle range is.


Great source of jetting info:
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Intake

Hope that helps.


I used to hate pod filters. I hated everything about them. At the time, I was using an aftermarket EFI kit and had a heck of a time tuning it. Then i went back to carbs. Now I'm pretty happy with my pod filter. It definitely trims the mid-range a bit, but I find it doesn't hurt the throttle response at all because when you rejet, getting the jetting right helps a ton with response. I definitely makes some noise, but the good thing is you can stop making noise by rolling off the gas a little.

[focus101]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Okay, let's see.

I'm in NE Ohio, my elevation is roughly 1000 feet, and I ride in summer time. Temps range from 50-95.

Intake: K&N pod
Exhaust: Full Muzzy (Two Brothers cans basically act like stockers in my experience)
Pilot jets: stock 38 (or whatever those are) Keihin
Mix screws: 2.5 turns out (adjust as necessary)
Needle height: 3 washers shimming the stock needles (not sure which clip position this equates to. Likely somewhere in the middle)
Main jet: 110 Keihin (you likely will end up with a 108. I found that was *just* a bit too small for my setup)



When I say 2.5 turns out, I mean turn the mix screws in with a screw driver until they're *just* snugged. Then back them out 2.5 turns. Keep track of how far out they go. I could likely back mine out another 1/16-1/8 of a turn to help with cold starts (and add less fuel with the choke at startup) but I've found that it doesn't bog or hang when I blip, so I'll leave it where it is.

I think factory pro will supply some directions in the kit for how to rejet. If not, here's their online directions:
http://www.factorypro.com/tech/tech_...m_engines.html
I *think* they'll have you start in the middle clip position and adjust from there. Use some SAE#4 washers to get 'half steps' between clip positions if needed. Yes, one little washer will make a noticeable difference. The only thing I'd do differently from the directions I just linked is add to their needle test. I personally also like to run through a curvy road in 2nd or 3rd gear (no shifting) and roll on and off smoothly. You'll want to do these smooth roll ons and roll offs everywhere from 3000 to 13000 rpm. Engine speed isn't the important thing here, testing the fueling in the mid-throttle range is.


Great source of jetting info:
http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Intake

Hope that helps.


I used to hate pod filters. I hated everything about them. At the time, I was using an aftermarket EFI kit and had a heck of a time tuning it. Then i went back to carbs. Now I'm pretty happy with my pod filter. It definitely trims the mid-range a bit, but I find it doesn't hurt the throttle response at all because when you rejet, getting the jetting right helps a ton with response. I definitely makes some noise, but the good thing is you can stop making noise by rolling off the gas a little.

yet this is the help i need thanks a bunch, jet kit came in today and i noticed it came with washers and new cap screws for the top of the carb.. i will keep yall posted on how it goes, wish me luck..

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by jkv45

Only advice I have is get it running normally before adding a slip-on and pod filters. Otherwise you will be adding more variables and complication to an unsolved problem.

You can get some opinions on pod filters, but most of the time you'll lose more with them than you will gain. A well designed airbox is usually overall superior. Generally pods kill your throttle response and midrange torque, but return slightly higher peak HP numbers. Not the best trade-off for a Ninja 250 on the street IMO, but others may disagree...

I wouldn't worry about getting it running normally first as he is just going to have to change all the settings now anyways. It's not a bad idea I just think he'll be fine moving forward at this time.

I'm not familiar with what numbers the pods put out, but after I installed mine I still think it's the best upgrade you can do to the bike. The throttle response was what I noticed the most improvement on...

I won't disagree that maybe the airbox may give the best performance but it was such a pain to me I had no problems getting rid of it.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

As far as the idle screws go, mine screw in all the way a different amount so if I were to screw them both in and back them out the same number of turns the needles would be at different heights. I believe I estimated how many turns out they were when flush with the carb bodies and made the adjustments from there.

@chone, the F.P. kit does come with instructions and washers to shim. And like you said, you do have to tune the carbs with the washers in order to get it spot on. If they made washers even thinner I would have added one under each needle in addition to the ones the kit came with.

O.P.: Look up the thread "how to pod" for more info. That's what I posted in when I was tuning mine.