Helping a friend with a clutch plate problem!

[skilletmo]

All your going to be doing is "cleaning the the edges" the rest will be tring to get it loose with a few tools that ill be bringing.

[KennethJay]

Using the back piece of the hammer we got it out.
Using the metal piece that wasn't covering the engine case.
EFF YEA! With the help of @skilletmo

[KennethJay]

So i just removed the plates and they are all pitch black and the steel plates have some brown burn marks too on the edges. There is no gasket like i expected either... So now that they are black and looked so abused, do you think we should go ahead and buy the plates and gasket that i linked above in the other posts? @Motofool @DaBlue1

-skilletmo

[skilletmo]

Here are the pics

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by skilletmo

........the only problem is that it makes a loud ass screeching noise from the engine..........

Any evidence of the source of that noise?
Normally, skidding discs don't produce noise but heat into the oil while pulling the bike.

I would measure every element with a caliper.
If you don't have one, then go ahead and order the discs and the springs.

[subxero]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Any evidence of the source of that noise?
Normally, skidding discs don't produce noise but heat into the oil while pulling the bike.

I would measure every element with a caliper.
If you don't have one, then go ahead and order the discs and the springs.

^ this

Any signs of excessive wear on the basket? While you have it apart might as well pull basket and check out the bearings

[skilletmo]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Any evidence of the source of that noise?
Normally, skidding discs don't produce noise but heat into the oil while pulling the bike.

I would measure every element with a caliper.
If you don't have one, then go ahead and order the discs and the springs.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
^ this

Any signs of excessive wear on the basket? While you have it apart might as well pull basket and check out the bearings

I dont have a caliper but im sure my uncle has one in his shop (He owns a mechanic shop) but i feel like that can be the only problem(the clutch set).... the noise was clearly coming exactly from there when i put my ear to it. The prev owner said it was ( but then again he is a dumbass who put sealant so...). Also whenever its in neutral it makes that loud ass noise, then it goes into 1st gear making a little noise then 2nd-6th it makes no noise. I feel like the only thing it can be is the clutch set. If i get this set that the man assured me that nothing is wrong and has only 2000 miles on it, then i feel like it would replace everything including the plates, case, and springs. Then the only thing i would have to replace IF it is the problem is the bearing and rod thing. So, this being said, should i just tell him to buy it already?!?!

I mean if its not the plates then what could it be? I think we have to just take the dive and buy it, its only 40$...

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by skilletmo

........Also whenever its in neutral it makes that loud ass noise, then it goes into 1st gear making a little noise then 2nd-6th it makes no noise..........I mean if its not the plates then what could it be? I think we have to just take the dive and buy it, its only 40$...

The set for sale seems to be OK, but again, it is impossible to know for sure until delivery.

That is a weird noise the one you describe.
Did you turn it by hand while in neutral?

[skilletmo]

Originally Posted by Motofool

The set for sale seems to be OK, but again, it is impossible to know for sure until delivery.

That is a weird noise the one you describe.
Did you turn it by hand while in neutral?

No i didnt, i can if that would make a difference tomorrow? I googled "noise" or "screeching noise" coming from clutch and some people have that issue but all say different reasons. Idk, ill tell him to order it and hopefully it will work with new oil and a filter. Also i will go tomorrow to his house and put it on and spin it in neutral.

[skilletmo]

Its kind of like this noise but a little louder and coming from the exact place, a video of a v-storm...

[Motofool]

Now I see how it sounds,...........but still believe that something is eating something inside.

If I am such a pain is because I don't want you guys to go through the whole process just to end up with new parts and oil and having the same noise.

The clutch is a very simple mechanism: it either works (has enough friction to transfer the torque from the crankshaft to the tranny) or it doesn't (the discs slip).

In summary, it is a sandwich pressed together by springs: there is nothing in that package to produce such a noise.

Once the clutch's lever is released, that sandwich becomes a solid brick and part of the crankshaft and little gear.

However, some parts may wear out and become noisy when working, such like the gears, the damping device, the bearings and the pulling mechanism.

It is also possible that the noise comes from the transmission or the cam chain.

Pull the spark plugs out, so you can turn the engine (counterclockwise only) fast enough to hear any abnormal noise without the discs and springs installed.

Just a few ideas to consider

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by Motofool

...Now I see how it sounds,...........but still believe that something is eating something inside.

....some parts may wear out and become noisy when working, such like the gears, the damping device, the bearings and the pulling mechanism.

It is also possible that the noise comes from the transmission or the cam chain.

I agree with what Motofool says. Looking at one of your post, you said..."Whenever I start his bike it makes a screeching noise in neutral, whenever I put it in first and pull the clutch is it stops, then I release the clutch and slowly put throttle. It makes the noise again and then i start going and the noise stops."

You never really said how it shifted or rode. Was the clutch lever hard to pull? Is there any evidence of metal in the oil screen?

The tranny has constantly meshed gears and is spinning even while in neutral. It is very possible that one or more gears is damaged (teeth chipped or worn or not moving like it should) or something as simple as the clutch push rod or bearing.

This is thought. To see if the noise is in the gears or not, is to put the bike on a rear stand and turn the rear wheel while in neutral to see if the squeal is present in absence of the clutch. However you may not get it going fast enough to replicate the sound.

Did yours squeal like the one in this video?

[KennethJay]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

I agree with what Motofool says. Looking at one of your post, you said..."Whenever I start his bike it makes a screeching noise in neutral, whenever I put it in first and pull the clutch is it stops, then I release the clutch and slowly put throttle. It makes the noise again and then i start going and the noise stops."

You never really said how it shifted or rode. Was the clutch lever hard to pull? Is there any evidence of metal in the oil screen?

The tranny has constantly meshed gears and is spinning even while in neutral. It is very possible that one or more gears is damaged (teeth chipped or worn or not moving like it should) or something as simple as the clutch push rod or bearing.

This is thought. To see if the noise is in the gears or not, is to put the bike on a rear stand and turn the rear wheel while in neutral to see if the squeal is present in absence of the clutch. However you may not get it going fast enough to replicate the sound.

Did yours squeal like the one in this video?

Before we changed the oil and took the clutch plates out. I took it for a little ride around the neighborhood and my gosh it was with a horrible ride. I don't know if its because of me or anything. But it was very .. Jerky. Kepted moving forward and back. I had to pull back into the garage because the noise was louder than the exhaust. (Well.. It is a stock exhaust) but you hear it over the engine. This ride was not even 5 minutes, the front pipes were red.
Hopefully the new clutch plates fixes the pipes. If not.. Just something else to do then.

[KennethJay]

It's like a clicking sound..

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by KennethJay

Before we changed the oil and took the clutch plates out. I took it for a little ride around the neighborhood and my gosh it was with a horrible ride. I don't know if its because of me or anything. But it was very .. Jerky. Kepted moving forward and back. I had to pull back into the garage because the noise was louder than the exhaust. (Well.. It is a stock exhaust) but you hear it over the engine. This ride was not even 5 minutes, the front pipes were red.
Hopefully the new clutch plates fixes the pipes. If not.. Just something else to do then.

Originally Posted by KennethJay

It's like a clicking sound..

Sounds like gears and/or bearings. If you remove the oil screen and you see flakes of metal, you've got worse than a clutch problem. Check this thread.

[skilletmo]

As of right now we are waiting for parts, i will update when we receive them. I am going to check his oil screen tonight and see if there are metal chunks inside.

Kenny you will need to get this item, its 5$ shipped. If you want faster shipping so it comes before saturday then it will be a little more. But im in no rush, so you chose.

Oil Screen Gasket

[KennethJay]

Originally Posted by skilletmo

As of right now we are waiting for parts, i will update when we receive them. I am going to check his oil screen tonight and see if there are metal chunks inside.

Kenny you will need to get this item, its 5$ shipped. If you want faster shipping so it comes before saturday then it will be a little more. But im in no rush, so you chose.

Oil Screen Gasket

Alright, I bought it!
I just picked the standard shipping.

[skilletmo]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

Sounds like gears and/or bearings. thread.

If we use the gaskets and the problem still happens when we put the new clutch set and have to open it again then do we have to order new gaskets or can we reuse the new ones we will be putting on? Also can someone tell me what bearings/gears might be the problem, so we can eliminate the whole clutch idea if it ends up not being the problem and we can move on to probably the transmission.

[alex.s]

the shaft holding your clutch basket is bent.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by skilletmo

If we use the gaskets and the problem still happens when we put the new clutch set and have to open it again then do we have to order new gaskets or can we reuse the new ones we will be putting on? Also can someone tell me what bearings/gears might be the problem, so we can eliminate the whole clutch idea if it ends up not being the problem and we can move on to probably the transmission.

The screen's gasket is strong and you can re-use it several times if careful; the cover's is likely to get damaged after one use.

There is bearing between the shaft and the cage, another entering the transmission, another between the puller and the front plate.
The gears are the ones transferring rotation from clutch to transmission.
There is a sprocket behind the cage for the cam chain.

[skilletmo]

Originally Posted by alex.s

the shaft holding your clutch basket is bent.

Could that be the problem? Are you talking about the piece with the bearing through it? And it doesn't look like its bent, but ill re-check when i go to his place.

[skilletmo]

Originally Posted by Motofool

The screen's gasket is strong and you can re-use it several times if careful; the cover's is likely to get damaged after one use.

There is bearing between the shaft and the cage, another entering the transmission, another between the puller and the front plate.
The gears are the ones transferring rotation from clutch to transmission.
There is a sprocket behind the cage for the cam chain.

So i would basically have to do trial and error with the bearings if the plates dont work out? I think ill start with the one on the shaft since thats closest..


I wish someone had this problem, the one bike he gets, it has a problem that is so frustrating and not obvious like other ones....

[KennethJay]

So I'm guessing its not suppose to look like this? @DaBlue1 @Motofool @skilletmo

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by KennethJay

So I'm guessing its not suppose to look like this? @DaBlue1 @Motofool @skilletmo

Definitely RTV and metal shavings. The brassy looking flakes...not good.

BTW good pic.

[Racer x]

I hate to be the one to say it. But I am 99% sure its over. Is the gray stuff metal?

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by skilletmo

Ok so a friend @KennethJay, bought a 2010 ninja 250 that runs perfect and looks good (needs some front fairings) but the only problem is that it makes a loud ass screeching noise from the engine........Whenever I start his bike it makes a scratching noise in neutral, whenever I put it in first and pull the clutch is it stops, then I release the clutch and slowly put throttle. It makes the noise again and then i start going and the noise stops. Its making the pipes almost red at the top and a really bad smell..........

The picture matches this early description.

That RTV has been in the way of abundant lubrication.

Again, something has been eating something inside that engine.

[subxero]

all that red stuff? is that the same type of liquid gasket crap you scrapped off the outside of the case? Would make sense that all that stuff came off on the inside and clogged the filter/screen causing oil flow issues.

[KennethJay]

Originally Posted by DaBlue1

Definitely RTV and metal shavings. The brassy looking flakes...not good.

BTW good pic.

Can this problem be fixed?

[KennethJay]

Originally Posted by Racer x

I hate to be the one to say it. But I am 99% sure its over. Is the gray stuff metal?

Some of the grey ish stuff is metal and some is the "glue"/goo I bet from that sealant the previous owner used on the case. Which explains the red stuff too.
But yes, there is metal in that glump of goooo.

[Racer x]

I have seen orange spaghetti destroy a number of engines. I would pull it and at least drop the bottom of the case and inspect and clean it.

[KennethJay]

Originally Posted by Motofool

The picture matches this early description.

That RTV has been in the way of abundant lubrication.

Again, something has been eating something inside that engine.

Does this mean my engine is ruined or ..

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by KennethJay

Does this mean my engine is ruined or ..

Not necessarily; but it will take deeper surgery, cleaning and inspection, as advised by Eric above.

The metal debris could come from the clutch.

The really bad thing would be that the main bearings of the crankshaft were deprived of lubrication and failed, because that repair would be complicated and expensive.

Even if those are OK, you will need to make sure that there is no restriction in the narrow conduits for lubrication.

Sorry to see all those debris in a new-to-you bike

[DaBlue1]

Originally Posted by KennethJay

Can this problem be fixed?

Hard to say without looking at the inside. I'm thinking tranny and crank damage looking at the metal on the oil screen. At this point you might as well drop the engine and pull off the heads and lower case cover to see what else is going on there. I would say it would be cheaper to buy a new/used engine, of course you can always rebuild it, but it will probably be more hassle than it's worth.

With the amount of RTV in the crankcase, there's no telling where else it might be in the oil pump and passages. There was probably more metal than that in the oil and it was drained out. The red hot exhaust was a indicator of some extreme friction and lack of lubrication going on in the cylinders.


See this thread

[Racer x]

There are three bad things to this story. First I can't get past the red pipes. Second it the noise. Now metal.

[KennethJay]

Originally Posted by Racer x

There are three bad things to this story. First I can't get past the red pipes. Second it the noise. Now metal.

I bought this as my first bike..for 1750.
The guy basically lied to us and said the bike was running just fine.
We thought we could fix it by just, you know replacing the clutch plates.
Sigh!
If everything gets too expensive Im going to ask for my money back. But Im pretty sure that @skilletmo and I can fix this!

[KennethJay]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Not necessarily; but it will take deeper surgery, cleaning and inspection, as advised by Eric above.

The metal debris could come from the clutch.

The really bad thing would be that the main bearings of the crankshaft were deprived of lubrication and failed, because that repair would be complicated and expensive.

Even if those are OK, you will need to make sure that there is no restriction in the narrow conduits for lubrication.

Sorry to see all those debris in a new-to-you bike

Meh, thats what I get for rushing into getting a bike without actually testing it I guess! Oh well.
Im pretty sure we can fix it though if you think its just from the clutch.
When @skilletmo comes over we will work on it even more and update everyone!

[skilletmo]

I agree, i think its more then the clutch. Like a termite eating the gears and tranny. We will see what replacing the clutch does, if not i will personally call that douchebag for lying to kennith. An easy win in court if he does not comply.

[KennethJay]

So we are finishing up the bike right now. But quick question is the clutch rod suppose to move up and down in the case before we attach the clutch cable to it or is it normal before we put the cable on

[KennethJay]

We need an answer ASAP , please!

[Racer x]

It drops in and has to rotate into its normal position to catch the end of the clutch rod.