Go Slow To Go Fast

[csmith12]

There is a post on the CSS forum that I think would be cool to have here as well to get additional perspective. The CSS forum is not known for it's high number of comments or diversity of commenting. That is not a problem, it just bias's the comments. So I will post it here for additional lines of thinking. (Selfishly as part of my training to be a better coach )

"Go slow to go fast." - Unknown

What does this mean to you?

My comment on the CSS forum.

To me... It's a state of mind before you even get on the bike. A reminder to NOT rush anything, ride beyond my comfort, to relax and flow. ie.. to ride "gracefully". And fyi... not rushing doesn't mean you can't perform the action quickly.

To think of it in a different way... You can only ride as fast as your mind can process what is going on and be able to pre-emptively know for 99% sure what the outcome will be. Once a rider has ran out of that ability to know, they are riding fast to be riding fast vs. riding slow to go fast.

What do you think?

[Roark]

I totally agree with you.. Every type of racer knows to enter slow to exit fast. This and your statement both deal with the greater picture of going fast: PATIENCE.

In Nascar, MotoGP, or even in the NFL, patience is key. Barry Sanders was the most patient runner ever, and he could turn a 5 yard loss into a 70 yard touchdown on any play.. There's a place for outright speed, but it always pays to take time and act carefully and confidently.

[The Red Scourge]

I think this'll be a pretty cool discussion. I don't have anything to add but I do like the idea.

[cbinker]

Here is what i did when i started riding:
Read Total Control.
Went to the parking lot and rolled on the throttle as slowly as i could. Applied the brakes as slowly and smoothly as i could till lock up around 8mph. Practice practice and more practice till it was second nature to have those movements slow and smooth.

[sharky nrk]

To me the thought was always you cannot learn anything when your fighting SR and/or to truly ride 100% of your capability/speed - you must be using 100% of your capabilities. In order to CONSCIOUSLY work on a specific aspect of your riding, you must have reserves that allow you to process the input you receive from you senses in relationship to the changes you make.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by csmith12

.........

What does this mean to you?

What do you think?

"Dress me slowly, for I am in a great rush." - Napoleon Bonaparte

It is a psychological fact that what seems too high of a speed at the entrance of any non-familiar turn, seems too slow during the turn.

Your statement about the mind processing capability is very accurate.

The two key words to define in this discussion are slow and rush.

[alex.s]

dont know if i agree with go slow to go fast. more... go slow so that you can learn to go fast.
when unfamiliar, you make mistakes. recognition takes longer. understanding what mistakes can be made takes practice, and it takes making those mistakes. when making mistakes, its best to do so in a situation where that mistake wont cost you a bike, or a leg. once you have made every mistake possible, you begin to see what you can do that is not a mistake. you begin to see how to go fast. many times, going fast simply means doing less. it is hard to see that sometimes. people tell you, look, brake, lean, turn.... but what if you dont need to? what if instead you just go.

[CC Cowboy]

Go smooth to go fast.

Or, go like hell to experience heaven!

[alex.s]

i like that. take a vacation to hell, and you'll come back to heaven

[Misti]

I wrote an entire article on this topic

http://www.motomom.ca/go-slow-to-go-fast/

Great question!

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Misti

I wrote an entire article on this topic

http://www.motomom.ca/go-slow-to-go-fast/

Great question!

Great explanation, Misti !!!

We could start modifying the original quote then:

"Go slow to go fast." = "Take the time to comfortably learn and master the proper technique first; then, and only then, you can slowly reduce the time that completing a sequence of turns/techniques takes."

Note that the word rush is nowhere in the quotes.

As a verb, Merriam-Webster dictionary defines rush as follows:

: to move or do something very quickly or in a way that shows you are in a hurry

: to cause or force (someone) to do something too quickly

: to do something too quickly and often with little thought, attention, or care

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Note that the word rush is nowhere in the quotes.

I picked up that slack in the OP.

[Fox]

Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

The fastest riders are the smoothest in their inputs.

[fishdip]

Originally Posted by csmith12

There is a post on the CSS forum that I think would be cool to have here as well to get additional perspective. The CSS forum is not known for it's high number of comments or diversity of commenting. That is not a problem, it just bias's the comments. So I will post it here for additional lines of thinking. (Selfishly as part of my training to be a better coach )

"Go slow to go fast." - Unknown

What does this mean to you?

My comment on the CSS forum.


What do you think?

Nope I think going slow to go fast is just what slow ppl say.

[snapshot]

Originally Posted by csmith12

There is a post on the CSS forum that I think would be cool to have here as well to get additional perspective. The CSS forum is not known for it's high number of comments or diversity of commenting. That is not a problem, it just bias's the comments. So I will post it here for additional lines of thinking. (Selfishly as part of my training to be a better coach )

"Go slow to go fast." - Unknown

What does this mean to you?

My comment on the CSS forum.


What do you think?

I agree with your post completely. You have no idea how rare that is...

"Slow is smooth. Smooth is fast." is often heard during CQB training. That's how I learned it.

Fox has it right with the practice.

Ride on,

J~

[fishdip]

Any one who thinks slow is fast. You need to set down and see (faster) I think is the name and then follow up with fastest.

[Daeldren]

Also said many times by Jackie Stewart. Who always emphasized driving smooth to not upset the balance of the suspension.

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by fishdip

Any one who thinks slow is fast. You need to set down and see (faster) I think is the name and then follow up with fastest.

I have watched them both, multiple times. Pick it apart if you can, because it sure does look like the IOM racers use a rear stand that looks very similar to HF. Yes no?

Now..., that you know I have see it enough to notice the little things, you are way off. If you want to go fast... you have to visually and mentally slow down time. At race pace, your vision and brain are at least 2-4 seconds ahead of what you and the bike are currently doing. If you can't comprehend that, then YOU... can go "faster", when you're ready.

[snapshot]

Originally Posted by fishdip

Any one who thinks slow is fast. You need to set down and see (faster) I think is the name and then follow up with fastest.

I have the DVDs. They're fascinating.

What "Slow is smooth. Smooth is fast." means is that practicing what you do slowly will ingrain it into muscle memory and that will soon make the movement series smooth.

When I train riders to brake and un-brake smoothly, the results are quickly visible. Usually easily perceived after a few tries.

I often say that slow hands make a happy bike. Happy bike, happy rider.

Ride on,

J~

[Hellmutt]

Originally Posted by csmith12

If you want to go fast... you have to visually and mentally slow down time. At race pace, your vision and brain are at least 2-4 seconds ahead of what you and the bike are currently doing.

I'm no pro and have a lot of experience to gain yet, but my thoughts are this.
Being smooth is a key part, but isn't the goal so much as what's quoted above. I'd think the more forward your thinking, the more control you'll have on tap so long as you're riding within your limit.
Being smooth is just another facet of overall control along with braking, setting up, spotting entry/apex/exit, carrying momentum ( add as needed ), maintaining your line, body position throughout, and track position for the next turn....which should actually be determined up to a few turns in advance ( depending on the course ). The more comfortable I get on a course, the more muscle memory will take over, allowing me to focus further ahead and execute changes from previous laps. I've got a long row to hoe with track riding, but mentally I know what I physically need to do....it's consistent application that I lack....but, that's primarily due to my lack of experience and poor conditioning.

[Sirref]

I have new opinions on this after an extremely productive trip to njmp - thunderbolt

Go slow to go fast begins with vision and continues on to how you produce your inputs to the bike which is heavily dependent on your vision. It also affects learning, when learning a new technique backing off the pace a good bit allows you to focus on that technique rather than falling back into habit as we feel uncomfortable doing something other than what we know works at our fast pace when riding at that pace.

Now, onto vision. It would seem that everything goes back to vision in this sport, the phrase "you go where you look" seems to always hold true and when you look where you need to go everything seems to magically work out and you ride much smoother. Why is this, because you're looking far ahead enough to plan rather than react. When you plan you can get the bike pointed at exactly the angle you need, you can turn a chicane into a borderline straight line. You reduce unnecessary movements, which makes you smoother as opposed to jerky on the bike. If you react instead of plan you end up making many unnecessary corrections which reduces the amount of traction you have while also making you go slower because you're not really able to see as much of the road ahead so you can't determine how fast you can go.

[adouglas]

Chris, I think you nailed it in your CSS post.

This is very timely. Last weekend I went on a ride with guys from a regional forum, many of whom are known for, shall we say, an elevated pace.

It started out spirited, then got straight stupid. I mean Ninja 1000 (a 600 lb sport touring bike) rider catching air stupid. I mean triple the speed limit on narrow, crappy, sand-strewn back roads stupid. More than one rider (including a guy who rides Black group with TTD) pulled up to me and said "I don't feel like dying today."

I crossed some sort of ability threshold on that ride and I've been having trouble articulating it. I didn't feel rushed... the "ABILITY LIMIT!!!!" button wasn't getting pushed (er... much ). But the "DUDE THIS IS NUTS" button certainly was. So after a little while I let the hooligans go off and do their hooligan thing. I won't be riding with those guys again.

Some sort of switch got flipped... I was thinking more about limits imposed by conditions than limits imposed by my own ability. As I write this it feels wrong, because I'm always thinking about conditions. It just felt different for some reason.

Edit: This is an on-board photo (not from this ride, and not me!!!) from one of the hooligans who pushed the pace. We didn't go this fast... just showing you the mindset of some of the group. Notice the narrow two-lane public road and stone wall.

[Sirref]

Looks like a fun sunday ride

I believe what you felt was a form of confidence. You know that you and the bike are capable of much more than what you are doing and you're able to constantly assess the situation ahead of you without issue. Basically what you felt is that you have enough control over the bike to where you can adjust to the conditions and you feel comfortable going "fast" in a controlled manner in pretty much any condition

[Misti]

This is taken from my article on the subject of going slow to go fast....

"Going fast isn’t about riding on the ragged edge and holding on for dear life. Going fast is about implementing the skills you learned while training and practicing at a lower pace."

This means that you put in the time to work on your skills at a slower pace and then bring the pace up and up and up so that you can continue to utilize your skills.

And this is a quote from Keith Code on the subject:

As Keith Code says in Twist of the Wrist, “Most riders try to go faster each time on the track. That is a whole decision in itself that should be reserved for racing and for when you have done a good amount of thinking about the track. Once you’ve done the boring parts of looking and experimentation to see what works, you are armed with enough knowledge to make your decision to go faster really work. Without solving some of your barriers and rough spots on the track, you just make mistakes at a higher speed. It has been said many times by many good riders: First do it right, then add the speed.”

Misti

[csmith12]

Originally Posted by Misti

As Keith Code says in Twist of the Wrist, “Most riders try to go faster each time on the track. That is a whole decision in itself that should be reserved for racing and for when you have done a good amount of thinking about the track. Once you’ve done the boring parts of looking and experimentation to see what works, you are armed with enough knowledge to make your decision to go faster really work. Without solving some of your barriers and rough spots on the track, you just make mistakes at a higher speed. It has been said many times by many good riders: First do it right, then add the speed.”

Misti

There is validity there. One doesn't understand a track until you are truly at the point of optimizing shift points to keep your bike in it's top powerband. Until then, keep working.

In the spirit of this thread's purpose....

"If you find yourself not even trying hard to catch really fast riders... you know the track and you have found "go slow to go fast". It's not always purposely found, sometimes... it finds you." - csmith12