I want to paint my bike - how much paint would I need?

[iplante]

Hello!

I really want to paint my bike. Only, I've never done anything like that before and I'm not sure what amount of paint I would need to paint everything, except the black lower fairing. I have a green 2003 250.

Another stupid question. I'd like to add some simple decals (i.e.: the Kawasaki logo). Should it go under or above the clear coat? Pros and cons?

Thanks!

[Stingray1000]

I used 3 cans to completely paint my bike and had a 1/2 can left over. I used about 2 coats and I painted an extra small left fairing. I use the extra for little dings and what not that my bike gets.

[iplante]

Thanks Stingray!
If you don't mind my asking, how much paint was in each cans? are we talking spray cans or quarts or..?

Thanks again!

[Stingray1000]

Spray cans, and it was jsut normal size cans, nothing small or extra big. I got them from Home Depot and asked them specifically what would work on both plastic and metal and old paint lol. Make sure you clean the bike COMPLETELY. Dirt will make the paint lift, and if you get any drips buy a really fine grain sand paper and sand over the drips then paint again but try to make it as even as possible. Unless you're a pro you won't do it right the first time, but if you follow these instructions you'll be fine. If you get paint on the rotors or forks just use nail polish rremover poured over a paper towel but don't let it drip!!!!!

[iplante]

Thanks Stingray!

[iplante]

OK yet another question :roll eyes:

Do you guys think touch up paint would work if I wanted to paint the whole bike? I"d really like to have my bike match my car which is magma orange (2007 GTI Fahrenheit). That paint seems hard to find but here is touch up spray cans on eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2007-08-VW-A...6#ht_500wt_986

Could I put this type of paint on top of primer? Would I need a clear coat since this paint already has a glossy finish?

Sorry for the newbie questions! I just can't justify/afford the $1,000 quotes I've been getting for a professional job

[Stingray1000]

NP man

[Stingray1000]

Originally Posted by iplante

OK yet another question :roll eyes:

Do you guys think touch up paint would work if I wanted to paint the whole bike? I"d really like to have my bike match my car which is magma orange (2007 GTI Fahrenheit). That paint seems hard to find but here is touch up spray cans on eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2007-08-VW-A...6#ht_500wt_986

Could I put this type of paint on top of primer? Would I need a clear coat since this paint already has a glossy finish?

Sorry for the newbie questions! I just can't justify/afford the $1,000 quotes I've been getting for a professional job

Can't answer that bro

[iplante]

NP

Anyone else?

[Monkeytofu]

It should work fine; touch up paint isn't anything special/different from normal paint.

[rceezy]

Will you post pics of your progress? I am exceptionally curious to see.

[iplante]

Will do! Not sure when exactly, since money is a bit tight, but I definitely will take care of that in the next year!

I've never painted vehicles before (or with a spray can). It should be interesting! I hope it'll turn out nice.

I love my cage and it'd be cool to have a little Ninja Fahrenheit to match it

[rceezy]

I've seen some amazing rattle can jobs. You would be surprised. Good luck!

[iplante]

Thank you, and thanks to Monkeytofu for the answer

[Coolbpf]

DEFINITELY post pics my friend. I've been considering paint my pre gen, but those pesky flame stickers are in my way... Anyone have a good method of getting those babies off?

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by Coolbpf

DEFINITELY post pics my friend. I've been considering paint my pre gen, but those pesky flame stickers are in my way... Anyone have a good method of getting those babies off?

are they under the clear? Yes. then it will be a project.

No, take a heat gun heat then heat them up and peel them off.


Dont use rattle cans.

[Coolbpf]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

are they under the clear? Yes. then it will be a project.

No, take a heat gun heat then heat them up and peel them off.


Dont use rattle cans.

Pretty sure they aren't because I can feel the lips of the stickers when I'm waxing and washing... So by heat gun... I don't have one, hairdryer going to work just as well?

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by Coolbpf

Pretty sure they aren't because I can feel the lips of the stickers when I'm waxing and washing... So by heat gun... I don't have one, hairdryer going to work just as well?

heat gun would work the best but a blow dryer on the hottest setting would work. I think they get pretty hot.

[Monkeytofu]

Originally Posted by Coolbpf

Pretty sure they aren't because I can feel the lips of the stickers when I'm waxing and washing... So by heat gun... I don't have one, hairdryer going to work just as well?

You could buy a soft plastic paddle/ use a plastic edge and just saturate the sticker with goo gone. Maybe slightly rough up the surface of the sticker so it soaks through. If they aren't clear coated on you should be able to easily peel the edge off using your hand or fingernail.

You might want to take a closer look at them and really check if they're clear coated. Sometimes manufactures will clear coat something multiple times and the sticker will go in between those layers.

[massacremasses]

Dont do that... Im sorry but that is going to take such a long time and is just a ****** way to do it... Seriously. Heat gun. Razor blade. done.

[93etgocart]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

Dont do that... Im sorry but that is going to take such a long time and is just a ****** way to do it... Seriously. Heat gun. Razor blade. done.

+1 me and my dad did it for years when painting meeks trailers. Let me tell you it takes a long time to get one of those big ass stickers off

[jcgss77]

Another option: you can have Lowe's match the rust-o-leum to your car's paint, it will help if you can put a dab of the color WITHOUT CLEAR COAT on a paper, about 2" square. Then follow the ninja250faq directions on painting, spend a week and do about 6-8 coats since it is super cheap.

Also, and I recommend this, you can buy the Rustoleum clearcoat in a rattlecan, it has a nice glossy finish. And it should bond to the paint. You have a professional finish at less than 1/10 of your lowest quote. Then sit back as everyone gasps at the awesomeness of your diy paintjob.

[iplante]

jcgss77

Thanks for the reply! Do you think it'd be cheaper than $18.95 a can because that's what the touch-up paint would cost.

Also, if I ended up using the touch up paint, would the Rustoleum clear coat still do the job?

Thanks to everyone who answered!

[iplante]

For those interested, here's a (crappy) picture of my Ninja and the car whose color I'd like to match!

[00NissanNinja]

That is a nice limited edition gti. Those are fun little hatchbacks. I'm unsure if rustoleum is lacquer based. You want to do the entire job with the same type of paint from primer to clear if possible. Try to use the same brand as well if possible. I've had some good luck with rustoleum ultra cover primer (and paints too) but their cans overspray like crazy. The primer is pretty good lots of different paints adhere pretty well. A definite no no is urethane basecoat with lacquer clear ; the clear might flake off.

And just a tid bit, I like spraying automotive touchup's paints they usually have a great factory match. I'm actually painting my cars bumper right now. But this is with a HVLP spray gun.

[jcgss77]

Originally Posted by iplante

jcgss77

Thanks for the reply! Do you think it'd be cheaper than $18.95 a can because that's what the touch-up paint would cost.

Also, if I ended up using the touch up paint, would the Rustoleum clear coat still do the job?

Thanks to everyone who answered!

Honestly, the touch-up would be the best paint to use, it is the real thing. You do have to apply it correctly, though, and also use the correct clearcoat.

As far as the ROL, I am pretty sure a quart is less than 10$ (Pennsylvania) in the store I work in. I can get a price on a mixed quart tomorrow and let you know. You will have to brush it on, unless you have a paint sprayer. I have not done it myself, but I have heard that ROL applies well when sprayed through a gun. The clearcoat is in a rattlecan, and is less than 10. It is designed to bond to ROL products. Again, I will get more precise info for you.

PS-that will be a crazy color for a Ninja!

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by jcgss77

Honestly, the touch-up would be the best paint to use, it is the real thing. You do have to apply it correctly, though, and also use the correct clearcoat.

As far as the ROL, I am pretty sure a quart is less than 10$ (Pennsylvania) in the store I work in. I can get a price on a mixed quart tomorrow and let you know. You will have to brush it on, unless you have a paint sprayer. I have not done it myself, but I have heard that ROL applies well when sprayed through a gun. The clearcoat is in a rattlecan, and is less than 10. It is designed to bond to ROL products. Again, I will get more precise info for you.

PS-that will be a crazy color for a Ninja!

lol what?

I hope youre not seriously suggesting that....

[iplante]

Originally Posted by jcgss77

Honestly, the touch-up would be the best paint to use, it is the real thing. You do have to apply it correctly, though, and also use the correct clearcoat.

As far as the ROL, I am pretty sure a quart is less than 10$ (Pennsylvania) in the store I work in. I can get a price on a mixed quart tomorrow and let you know. You will have to brush it on, unless you have a paint sprayer. I have not done it myself, but I have heard that ROL applies well when sprayed through a gun. The clearcoat is in a rattlecan, and is less than 10. It is designed to bond to ROL products. Again, I will get more precise info for you.

PS-that will be a crazy color for a Ninja!

Thanks i'll be waiting for that price I don't have a paint sprayer, but I can't imagine they'd be that expensive?

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by iplante

Thanks i'll be waiting for that price I don't have a paint sprayer, but I can't imagine they'd be that expensive?

reputable ones are gonna start around $100. Cheapies can run from as low as $30ish

[jcgss77]

Originally Posted by massacremasses

lol what?

I hope youre not seriously suggesting that....

Didn't you read the ninja250 wiki?

@iplante-you might want to spend the extra and get the good stuff. ROL is mixable, but not recommended. The color might be dead on, but might be dead wrong. With that said, there are a lot of nice colors, and there are a couple that got my eye-my store has a metallic color changing purple and also a green, one of which I will be using on my paint experiment. Anyways, if you can get your desired color, go with how you can. Just remember to remove your stickers first, painted-over stickers are lame.

[PsHYk]

just go to car quest and get actual car paint in a spray can...its better than other spray paints and they also have the clear coat in a can...youre gonna need sand paper...different grits of course...320, 800, 1000,1500, 2000 for extra extra shiny you can google the steps...and of course and do a couple coats...ok...a lot of coats probably. Also the cans are about 10 bills a can just like that other weak as paint you can buy...thats what i used for my seat cowl...

[PsHYk]

Originally Posted by iplante

For those interested, here's a (crappy) picture of my Ninja and the car whose color I'd like to match!

that bright orange is what i want mine to look like...just a little more metallically...

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by jcgss77

Didn't you read the ninja250 wiki?

No, but if it ever said to brush on paint I will never be taking its advice.

[Monkeytofu]

Saw this on the random pics on the forum main page, close to what you're going for.

[PsHYk]

im going for this...

[FrugalNinja250]

Originally Posted by Monkeytofu

Saw this on the random pics on the forum main page, close to what you're going for.

Hey, that's my bike, in the last color I had it in. It's different now.

That is a three-stage pearl urethane paint job, you won't get that out of rattlecans no matter how hard you try. I know, I tried. I ended up taking paint and body classes at my local community college, it wasn't too expensive and it taught me how to use real paints with real sprayguns.

I honestly wouldn't recommend rattlecan paints at all. They can never cure as hard as catalyzed urethanes, they don't hold up to UV and weathering at all (expect chalking and fading within a year of application, no matter how perfect you think you put it on). It's the nature of using solvent-carried spray can paint that evaporates to dry. Also, whatever you paint with a rattle can will never hold a quality paint again. If you decide in the future to do a real paint job, you'll have to strip off all of the rattlecan paint.

Unfortunately, the biggest expense in painting it yourself using good paints and a basic HVLP gun is the compressor. HVLP guns eat up a lot of air so a compressor that can supply a minimum amount of air for spraying small stuff like bike parts is going to run a couple hundred bucks, and even then you'll be spending a lot of time waiting for the tank to refill.

There are some options, though. If the goal is to get a long-lasting paint job you have to use quality paints. You can get a quart mixed to match your car at most local automotive paint suppliers, check to see if you have a Sherwin-Williams outlet in your town. Take them something like the gas lid from your car, clean and polished first, and they can put it in a machine and get a good match. They can also look up the mix code and mix a quart from that, that will get it really close.

Once you have the paint, clear, and matching catalysts you can buy the equipment to paint it yourself, or pay a shop to paint the parts after you've prepped everything. Prep is key no matter what. The slide-type decals on the tank are under the clear coat, this is to protect them from any spilled gasoline. All the other decals are vinyl on top of the clear and can easily be removed. Remove the vinyl decals on all parts aside from the tank using a heat gun on low or a hair drier on high, you want to heat the area carefully until the decal becomes stretchy. The adhesive will let go before the vinyl will tear, but barely. Much hotter and the plastic will deform permanently, so it's better to pull the vinyl when it's a little less stretchy.

Once all the vinyl's off, you will need to sand the tank in the area of the decals to get those off. Those are wet-slide decals rather than adhesive so they're very thin. I've tried sanding them off without damaging the paint underneath and it's virtually impossible. Sand that flat area until the decals are gone, bare metal will be exposed. Get a can of etching primer from a quality paint supply, I use Sherwin-Williams for instance, and prime that area immediately. You'll need to put a few coats on, then wet-sand with 400 or higher to blend the edges in with the painted areas.

For all other painted areas, the only prep you need to do is to use a grey Scotchbrite pad (different colors are different roughness, so use grey) until there are no shiny spots at all, anywhere. Anywhere it's shiny the paint will peel. So, work that pad down into the corners, around all edges, etc.

Once all the pieces are prepped you can then either paint yourself, or pay a shop to spray it. Trust me, a good shop will be appreciative of a quality prep job and the cost of spraying should be very reasonable.

Single stage colors are the easiest and cheapest to spray, the clear is basically built into the color.

Two stage, that's base color with a clear over it, is more expensive because of the extra materials, but generally yields a longer-lasting paint job.

Three stage paint jobs use two base color coats, generally a solid or metallic first followed by the translucent main color, with the clear being the final third stage. Those are the most expensive to do, not only because of the three different materials, but because applying a translucent color evenly is a major PITA and someone with a good eye for doing it is worth paying a lot more money. That orange candy in the above photo took me all night in the paint booth and was one of the hardest jobs I ever did.

Anyhow, hope some of this helps.

[7oxSin]

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

Hey, that's my bike, in the last color I had it in. It's different now.

That is a three-stage pearl urethane paint job, you won't get that out of rattlecans no matter how hard you try. I know, I tried. I ended up taking paint and body classes at my local community college, it wasn't too expensive and it taught me how to use real paints with real sprayguns.

I honestly wouldn't recommend rattlecan paints at all. They can never cure as hard as catalyzed urethanes, they don't hold up to UV and weathering at all (expectect chalking and fading within a year of application, no matter how perfect you think you put it on). It's the nature of using solvent-carried spray can paint that evaporates to dry. Also, whatever you paint with a rattle can will never hold a quality paint again. If you decide in the future to do a real paint job, you'll have to strip off all of the rattlecan paint.

Unfortunately, the biggest expense in painting it yourself using good paints and a basic HVLP gun is the compressor. HVLP guns eat up a lot of air so a compressor that can supply a minimum amount of air for spraying small stuff like bike parts is going to run a couple hundred bucks, and even then you'll be spending a lot of time waiting for the tank to refill.

There are some options, though. If the goal is to get a long-lasting paint job you have to use quality paints. You can get a quart mixed to match your car at most local automotive paint suppliers, check to see if you have a Sherwin-Williams outlet in your town. Take them something like the gas lid from your car, clean and polished first, and they can put it in a machine and get a good match. They can also look up the mix code and mix a quart from that, that will get it really close.

Once you have the paint, clear, and matching catalysts you can buy the equipment to paint it yourself, or pay a shop to paint the parts after you've prepped everything. Prep is key no matter what. The decals on the tank are under the clear coat, this is to protect them from any spilled gasoline. All the other decals are on top of the clear and can easily be removed. Using a heat gun on low or a hair drier on high, you want to heat the area carefully until the decal becomes stretchy. The adhesive will let go before the viny will tear, but barely. Much hotter and the plastic will deform permanently, so it's better to pull the vinyl when it's a little less stretchy.

Once all the vinyl's off, you will need to sand the tank in the area of the decals to get those off. Those are wet-slide decals rather than adhesive so they're very thin. I've tried sanding them off without damaging the paint underneath and it's virtually impossible. Sand that flat area until the decals are gone, bare metal will be exposed. Get a can of etching primer from a quality paint supply, I use Sherwin-Williams for instance, and prime that area immediately. You'll need to put a few coats on, then wetsand with 400 to blend the edges in with the painted areas.

For all other painted areas, the only prep you need to do is to use a grey Scotchbrite pad (different colors are different roughness, so use grey) until there are no shiny spots at all, anywhere. Anywhere it's shiny the paint will peel. So, work that pad down into the corners, around all edges, etc.

Once all the pieces are prepped you can then either paint yourself, or pay a shop to spray it. Trust me, a good shop will be appreciative of a quality prep job and the cost of spraying should be very reasonable.

Single stage colors are the easiest and cheapest to spray, the clear is basically built into the color.

Two stage, that's base color with a clear over it, is more expensive because of the extra materials, but generally yields a longer-lasting paint job.

Three stage paint jobs use two base color coats, generally a solid or metallic first followed by the translucent main color, with the clear being the final third stage. Those are the most expensive to do, not only because of the three different materials, but because applying a translucent color evenly is a major PITA and someone with a good eye for doing it is worth paying a lot more money. That orange candy in the above photo took me all night in the paint booth and was one of the hardest jobs I ever did.

Anyhow, hope some of this helps.

when you say rattle can are you talking about all can including the automotive paints from companies like duplicolor? also you can get standard automotive paints put into rattle cans if you didnt know.

[FrugalNinja250]

Originally Posted by 7oxSin

when you say rattle can are you talking about all can including the automotive paints from companies like duplicolor? also you can get standard automotive paints put into rattle cans if you didnt know.

I'm familiar with the custom pack cans, they're slightly better than storebought colors but not much. The problem is that they're not catalyzed. Enamels do some crosslinking as they dry but they're still not that stable against UV and oxidation compared to a urethane. Ultimately the decision is yours to make.

If you decide to go the more durable route I would suggest checking out http://www.autobodytoolmart.com for consumables and supplies. Their prices and service are great. The Atomic Orange that I painted above was from the Kirker paint line that I got from them.

In the grand scheme of things, doing a nice urethane job isn't all that much more expensive than a rattlecan job, and the durability is far, far greater. If I didn't have the compressor/tools/facilities to shoot urethane myself, I'd rather pay a shop to do the actual spray than use a significantly lower quality rattlecan paint system.

Oh, back to the custom pack paints, Sherwin-Williams sells a system where there's a catalyst in a capsule in the can. You bang the can on a hard surface to puncture the catalyst and shake like hell, then you're ready to spray. It's expensive, was something like $20/can last I checked many years ago, and a bike-sized project would need probably 8-10 cans including wasting half a can working out the spray pattern before actually applying paint to the final surfaces.

If you buy your paint by the quart and spray through a halfway-decent HVLP gun you can expect to use less than a quart for base and for color, depending on the number of stages and the type of color. For instance, my orange paint job the color used almost a full quart and that was barely enough (I'd used a few tablespoons of the color on a diecast the year before). My current color, a single-stage green modified with basecoat converter and topped with a decent clear took about half a quart of color and about the same for the clear. My next job will be a candy again, I'm getting two quarts of color just to make sure I have enough.

[7oxSin]

Originally Posted by FrugalNinja250

I'm familiar with the custom pack cans, they're slightly better than storebought colors but not much. The problem is that they're not catalyzed. Enamels do some crosslinking as they dry but they're still not that stable against UV and oxidation compared to a urethane. Ultimately the decision is yours to make.

If you decide to go the more durable route I would suggest checking out http://www.autobodytoolmart.com for consumables and supplies. Their prices and service are great. The Atomic Orange that I painted above was from the Kirker paint line that I got from them.

In the grand scheme of things, doing a nice urethane job isn't all that much more expensive than a rattlecan job, and the durability is far, far greater. If I didn't have the compressor/tools/facilities to shoot urethane myself, I'd rather pay a shop to do the actual spray than use a significantly lower quality rattlecan paint system.

Oh, back to the custom pack paints, Sherwin-Williams sells a system where there's a catalyst in a capsule in the can. You bang the can on a hard surface to puncture the catalyst and shake like hell, then you're ready to spray. It's expensive, was something like $20/can last I checked many years ago, and a bike-sized project would need probably 8-10 cans including wasting half a can working out the spray pattern before actually applying paint to the final surfaces.

If you buy your paint by the quart and spray through a halfway-decent HVLP gun you can expect to use less than a quart for base and for color, depending on the number of stages and the type of color. For instance, my orange paint job the color used almost a full quart and that was barely enough (I'd used a few tablespoons of the color on a diecast the year before). My current color, a single-stage green modified with basecoat converter and topped with a decent clear took about half a quart of color and about the same for the clear. My next job will be a candy again, I'm getting two quarts of color just to make sure I have enough.

i have the gear to do a pro paint job, i have a full set of 3m sprayers, air compressor ect. but for the duplicolor paint i got for 4$ a can instead of 9$ or 25$ a can for the nice kind and another 25 for the clear coat. so i spent 16$ to repaint my bike, i had all the sand paper laying around cuz i do alot of professional graffiti and airbrushing art. so as long as 2 cans of each are enough i will have had my bike repainted for under 20 >=)

[iplante]

I got an estimate today for $800 to paint the following:

- Gas tank (magma orange)
- Upper cowl (magma orange - road rash repair)
- Side fairings (magma orange)
- Tail fairing (magma orange)
- Front fender (magma orange)
- Lower cowl (black)
- Flush mount turn signals (black) - they are currently "carbon fibre" and I don't like that.

I'm probably gonna go for it. They're just making sure the paint is available and the price isn't obnoxious And I gotta remove the decals myself which isn't a big deal at all.

So this week/weekend I'm gonna remove the decals and make sure all fairings are clean. Then I gotta take off my gas tank.

I have a pump to empty it. I can follow the online instructions on the Ninja 250 Wiki to take it off. I'm wondering if there are any precautions I need to take to keep the carbs clean while the tank is off if it stays off for a while?

Super excited, btw