Turbo Subaru BRZ STi

[choneofakind]

Hey. Look what I found, released today:
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/12/25/s...yo-auto-salon/

Read down a ways. It looks like the STi concept for the BRZ will have a turbo:
"◆　STI Performance Concept (Show model)
STI Performance Concept signifies STI's core business areas; aftermarket parts, complete cars and motorsports.
Featuring STI technologies and components including STI suspension and brake enhancements as well as other exterior and interior upgrades, the concept cars showcases STI's key business areas of aftermarket performance parts and complete cars. To signify STI's commitment to motor sports, it employs the STI-tuned EJ20 horizontally-opposed 2.0-liter four-cylinder turbo racing engine currently used for the Super GT race in Japan"

Correct me if I'm wrong, but up until now, all hints at an STi BRZ have only been suspension and bodywork, right? This one haz turbo.

[Apex]

I'd pimp a turbo'd BRZ. PLEASE TELL ME SCION WILL NOT RECEIVE THIS MODEL. PLEASE!!!

[choneofakind]

^^ Dunno. I've heard rumors that Scion Toyota and Subaru have been disagreeing about the path that the twins will take, so I'm not sure if the Scion will receive the turbo or not.

Curious, why the distaste for the Scion model getting the turbo? All that's different between the two cars is interior and spring rate. Scion has not had a turbo car from the factory ever, so it might not be something they're interested in, who knows.

I'd rock an FRS or a BRZ, turbo or not. Not in the budget though.

[Bob2010]

RWD yes cool but then a 2.0 N/A engine? Nah didn't do it for me.
But this could be a game changer for sure

[choneofakind]

Anyone else getting info from anywhere else that confirms what this article is saying? I'm still a little skeptical after reading rumors of a turbo version for the last three years without any motion on it. This is the only source I've seen and it seems legit, buttttttt...?

[Alex]

I think you may be reading into it a bit much. It's just a concept car, with an engine that has nothing to do with their street cars. It's quite possible that they might one day put a turbo in that platform, but people have hinted that every year since they've first been announced, with no dice so far.

[Somchai]

From what I'd read in German news there might be a plan for a 230 hp Powerversion, but for the Turbo there shouldn't be any plan since the engines room might be too small for all the heat.

[snot]

it is a beautiful car, I hope they produce it.
I like my Scion and I like Subaru so, I don't care who makes it.

[Apex]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

^^ Dunno. I've heard rumors that Scion Toyota and Subaru have been disagreeing about the path that the twins will take, so I'm not sure if the Scion will receive the turbo or not.

Curious, why the distaste for the Scion model getting the turbo? All that's different between the two cars is interior and spring rate. Scion has not had a turbo car from the factory ever, so it might not be something they're interested in, who knows.

I'd rock an FRS or a BRZ, turbo or not. Not in the budget though.

Just that scion isn't a performance brand. Personally I'm not big on trusting a car company's first venture into the performance realm. If Subaru did it, I just feel like it would be better right off the bat (especially if STi was behind the whole thing).

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Apex

Just that scion isn't a performance brand. Personally I'm not big on trusting a car company's first venture into the performance realm. If Subaru did it, I just feel like it would be better right off the bat (especially if STi was behind the whole thing).

I guess I understand a brand perception problem... but again, you know they're identical cars outside of trim spec and spring rate, right?

Don't look at it as Scion's first venture into sports cars. Look at it as Toyota getting back into sports cars without trying to re-market their main brand, who's bread and butter is selling sensible Camry's to older folks. You read Scion on the badge, but it's all Toyota. Don't forget who brought us the 2000GT, the Supra, the MR2, and the Celica GT-Four (check out the ST205 generation ); Toyota is more than capable of making a performance vehicle that fulfills every racerboy's wet dreams and will still live to 200,000+ miles, turbocharged or NA.

Also, ever driven a Scion? They're not quarter mile monsters by a long shot because they're made with budget friendly parts bin engines, but they seem to handle well from my experience. I've heard they do pretty well in an autoX course from Cam, and he's no slouch behind the wheel. As much as we purists (or snobs) don't want to admit it, the sport FWD car can be hella fast, fun, and is definitely here to stay.

I'll admit I do have a horse in this race of branding perception. I'm a total Scion fanboy because of cost vs fun, and the fact that I have a car without traction or stability control. I own an '06 tC and am well familiar with it in stock form. It can hustle through fun roads with a committed driver, but it's not a fast car in a straight line. I've had it to the west coast, driven CA 1, CA 2, and Palomar Mountain at a brisk pace. I've also booked through most of the fun roads in NE and Southern Ohio. It could use a rear sway bar to lighten up the nose and could use a diet, but other than that, it's a fun little car that leaves me with a silly grin on my face. Because cheap thrills.

[Apex]

Yeah, I know my cars. I know Toyota owns them and they just rebranded everything here (for some strange reason). I don't know why they just don't call Lexus and Scion a Toyota, because that is what they are. It is all about status here. Ugh.

I just feel that Toyota ducked out of the sports car scene, and just catered towards families. I mean, anything that was fun was kicked to the curb for grocery fetchers.

I don't mind that they partnered with Subaru to create a car together, it is just they didn't bother just creating their own car. I mean, go to toyota.jp. The 86 (or the FRS here) is the ONLY sports car in their lineup.

I just wish they would put some R&D into something that is purely theirs. Subaru has their Impreza lineup, I just wish Toyota would resurrect the Supra, and not just the partnership.

I guess I just never forgave Toyota for ditching the Supra.


Speaking honestly here, my Honda Civic was the best car I have owned. I have owned several Mustangs, but when I raced Auto-X in the civic, with the formulas they did to alter the car lap times and put everyone on an even playing field, I still finished in the top 10 in the Texas A&M Car Club events. I was in the next class form Stock ONLY because I had a short throw shifter. I'd have been even faster if I removed the short throw shift adapter. On a very fast course, I finished maybe 2-3 seconds behind a Civic Si with suspension and some power mods. I could drive that car FAST. Man, I miss that car. It wasn't fast, but it was fun.

[choneofakind]

Lexus has some unique models. Their F lineup is pretty interesting. I think those count.

and correct me if I'm wrong, the first gen tC was a unique model to Scion. I've read it was based off the Avensis platform, but is a completely different car. Actually, weren't the first gen xB and xA unique models to Scion also? I don't know about them.

I think the current tC shares platform with the Corolla, the xB is going away, so is the iQ, and the two new models are a Toyota Auris (iM) and a joint venture with Mazda (iA). Lame.

Let's just hope one or both of the twins gets a turbo setup so it can refresh the model. Maybe they just offer a turbo version and an NA version with a price difference, I don't care. I like the twins and hope there's always some variant of them for sale.

[Sirref]

I'd drive a turbo brz

as it is I'm likely going to end up with a secondhand brz down the line anyway since I like the car so much

[toEleven]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Don't look at it as Scion's first venture into sports cars. Look at it as Toyota getting back into sports cars...

First, I agree with you: disliking the FRS vs the BRZ over a brand label doesn't make any sense. But secondly, a solid sporting history does not guarantee a respectable return. It's a bit of an apples and orangutans comparison, but Honda's fantastic success (so much sarcasm) on their return to F1 is a rather current example. I can definitely understand concerns that Toyota would not return to form (in the consumer sportscar arena) as smoothly as one might hope.

[choneofakind]

^^^ Werd.

Case and point: the new Acura NSX.

[Apex]

I suppose I need to look at it like this:

Toyota has to start somewhere. I the BRZ platform is as good as any platform to start from.

[CycleCam303]

I think Toyota surprised themselves when they released the frs/brz twins. I have a couple of dealership friends that said even with the insane mark up they sold out of then quickly. For me the car is packaged in such an inefficient way I'd say go for the miata. Seating in the back seat isn't realistic and the trunk space is awkward.

The first gen tc had an interesting thing going for it. That 2.4 liter Camry motor was an absolute rock solid motor. I swear nitto tires had one pushing 450whp on stock internals. You could boost the hell out of them. And stock tc will rotate quite a bit on corner entry. It's not a bad car. It's timing killed it. Toyota just got rid of the Celica and that was a solid Integra fighter.

The twins are interesting cars. There is nothing like them on the market. They handle really well and make okay power. A turbo model would be awesome. Part of me wishes Toyota would build a strong n/a motor ala modern s2000.

[sharky nrk]

As the owner of a BRZ and an upgraded turbo WRX, I fully plan on keeping my BRZ n/a. The thing is, the car is an amazing drive because its so balanced. The power, the chassis, the suspension all work together so well to make the car better than the sum of its spec sheet. Could it use more power......sure lol. I am not sure I ever say no to more power. But it has to be in such a way that it doesn't detract from the cars character.

[choneofakind]

^^ But if it were a tasteful turbo, say 220-250 at the wheels, would that be the perfect amount of added pep without overwhelming the balance? It would definitely fix that flat spot in the power curve that I've read about.

Sadly I've not yet gotten the chance to drive an FRS, manual or automatic...

[CycleCam303]

I have feeling the brz suffers from what my miata does and the Porsche boxster. Hell the rx8 too. Really good chassis with not enough power making it feel unbalanced. Ever since I did the mods to the miata it really needs an extra 100hp.
When cars make that much grip and don't have enough hp to rotate off the apex... Then yea it needs more hp.

[sharky nrk]

The flat spot you speak of, is a nasty dip in the torque curve; and can be tuned out n/a with some simple mods and a decent tune. The right turbo setup could provide a nice little power boost and not overwhelm the balance sure. Make it small, responsive, possibly with variable vane or similar and it could be smooth and seamless.

But for me, it is black hole and one I do not care to dip into. I kinda did the same thing with the WRX. Started off setting the car up for ultra responsive and "reasonable" power with a modified TD04 and supporting cast of mods - everything focused on responsive power. Then a bigger turbo ........ and a bigger turbo ......and water/meth injection to keep the shortblock alive. Responsiveness was lost in search of that top end boost rush.

Ultimately selling the setup and changing back to a "small" VF series turbo just a setup or two up the run from the stocker, and back to decent power (300 whp or so) but a powerband that was smooth and useful from 3000 rpm up.

I don't want that for the BRZ. It is really a VERY VERY enjoyable car just like it is. Little tweaks here and there are desired but I could live with the car stock and it would still put a smile on my face.

[sharky nrk]

Originally Posted by CycleCam303

I have feeling the brz suffers from what my miata does and the Porsche boxster. Hell the rx8 too. Really good chassis with not enough power making it feel unbalanced. Ever since I did the mods to the miata it really needs an extra 100hp.
When cars make that much grip and don't have enough hp to rotate off the apex... Then yea it needs more hp.

This is pretty accurate statement, IMO no so much stock as all of those listed work really well as a "whole" stock - but once you up the ante tire wise and find some additional grip with the suspension setup. Absolutely.