Taking throttle issue.

[Bob KellyIII]

I've noticed here recently that my 2012 Ninja 250R is very reluctant to take throttle when cold..... that could very well indicate too lean of airscrews or even too small of pilot jets.
So you guys that have good running ninjas I have a question for you....
does your Ninja sogg when opening the throttle when the bike is cold ?
.... to me it seems excessive in the sogging it takes a very long time warming up before it stops doing that... but it does stop the sogg completely once it is fully warm.....
to me that is indicating that it is still too lean at idle ...what do you think ???
....
obviously a bit of sogg when just started is normal but not as much as I am getting... if I first start it and give the throttle a 1/4 turn twist and hold it it will gasp and die..... i have to ease into it to get the RPM's up
....
to me that is not right ...even if it is cold ! Comments ?
...
Thanks !
Bob......

[DannoXYZ]

I use full-choke for about 2-3 blocks. In 20F temps,
I keep full-choke for 5-minutes until I get on freeway, then turn it off.

[Bob KellyIII]

Yah Danno but your down in the banana belt ! it's alot warmer down there !
....yes it snows in flagstaff I know that, but cold there is not like cold here !
HAHAHAHAH!!!!
the question is does the bike Sogg when it's cold ?
....
Bob.....

[DannoXYZ]

Yes, soggy when cold.

I was recalling my experience from commuting to SF in winter. One winter it started acting up when temps dropped into 20s. Wouldn't start with choke, only if I held throttle open. Then would die if I added choke.

Sent to ducatiman for refurb and it'd start easily with choke. But was still temperamental until warmed up. I just left full-choke on until I was on my way. Compared to summer when I could turn off choke after 10-15sec and get going.

[Bob KellyIII]

Ahhh ! ok makes sense !
thanks for the info....
....
Bob.....

[Bob KellyIII]

Well, I got the fairings off the ninja and busted off one of the fender well tabs that I'll have to crazy glue back on.... but other than that I got them off without a scratch....
I took my nifty new screw drivers "the shorties"... and tried to see if I could adjust the air screws on the carbs....
the carb on the left side was easy but the carb on the right I cannot turn
I can't put the screw driver in the slot and turn it too... maybe if I pull the bracket on the right side and get the water tank out of the way and the metal bracket too I can do it from that side but under the carbs from the left side leaves no room for my hands....
how I did it last time was with help ...I had the kid hold it after I put the screwdriver in place with a long reach pair of needle nose plyers and then he twisted it a bit about 1/8 of a turn....
it seems to me it needs to go a good 1/2 turn more to be right so I will have to try that again and re set the screwdriver a few times to get it done...
I have a ratcheting 90 degree screw driver that should do the trick but I can't hold it in there and turn it at the same time
.... and for the life of me I cannot see a bike shop doing this to adjust it to fastest idle like it should be done... so they just set it x amount of turns out and leave it be.... but I did that and it's still too lean so it needs more
i will get my kids help and see if we can turn that damm screw about 1/2 turn more and then try it....
there is no way in hell I can adjust it to fastest idle though it is just going to have to be guess work ..... and I don't like that at all
( that is the carb with the aftermarket air screw in it and it is extra hard to turn which makes it even harder)
....
I am hoping that will cure the problem of wanting to drop a cylinder when it is cold..... it may not, i don't know.... but it is worth a try.
....
man I really hate working on that ninja it is so cramped to get in there and do anything and I still need to get down to the engine and do the valves....

....
Bob....

[Bob KellyIII]

ok I managed to turn that pilot air screw a bit and what a diference !
of course that may be because the bike has been in the warm shop all day with the little electric heater on.... but I took off the choke soon as it started and it kept running fine..... that has never happened before !
of course it would not take throttle, but after a minute or so it would sogg but I could get the RPM's up and warm it up faster....
after about 3 minutes it would idle at around 2000RPM and take throttle with no hesitation....
it also sounds smoother like both cylinders are fully running now at idle instead of one cylinder doing all the work and the other one barely helping....
.... but that may well be just because it's warmer ! too... I will turn off the heater or put it real low to keep the pipes from freezing over night and try it in the morning....
that SHOULD tell me if I need to take the carbs off again or not.....
I have a gut feeling I won't have to now.
....
i had to take off the bracket that holds the back of the water tank and move it up as far as I could and bend the ground cable out of the way then I could barely get my fingers in there... one hand to hold the tiny screw driver up into the hole and the other hand to turn the screwdriver with 2 fingers....
.... i can't believe they did that ! but it is a sweet machine ya take the good with the bad and smile ! LOL
.....and it's running really good now !
Bob....

[DannoXYZ]

awesome work!

Having kids with tiny hands really comes in handy! Or you can use one of these tools!

https://www.revzilla.com/product/mot...adjusting-tool

I was actually thinking about wiring up some servos and making this adjustment via remote-control!

[Triple Jim]

Originally Posted by DannoXYZ

Or you can use one of these tools!

https://www.revzilla.com/product/mot...adjusting-tool

I had to adjust the idle screws on a Hyosung GV650 once. I didn't want to wait to order that tool so I used the center cable from a speedometer drive and bent a piece of copper tubing, made a screwdriver tip for the cable, and put Vise-Grips on the other end to turn it. Luckily that was the last time I saw that motorcycle.

[Bob KellyIII]

I can't believe I just spent $81.00 for a screwdriver but I did ! i bought one of those things a 90 deg. gear driven type with extra screwdriver tips... now
i don't get to complain when adjusting the air screws on the Ninja !
....i'm tired of playing with it I just want it to work...the more I work on it the more I bang and scratch it up...
....re bolting the fairings on should go alot smoother as I have a fairing bolt kit coming which should be here tomorrow....i think...
thanks for the link Danno, I'll let ya know if that is the answer for adjusting the idle air screws to the fastest RPM and get that idle burn right.
....
that's pirty inovative of ya Jim ! and a good solution to the problem ! well done !
.....
later all !
Bob.......

[Bob KellyIII]

just to check it one more time I fired up the ninja just before noon....
it was fairly warm outside and in the shop by that time but I turned on the key and hit the starter button and it started even without the choke after making about 2 revolutions.... it has never done that before !
it was idling really slow but kept idling like that anyway... so I added some choke to it ant it picked up RPM to about 3k RPM form there it would take throttle with a bit of a sogg.... but the sogg is expected when the engine is cold
it is a water cooled machine after all and the heat is not instantaneous
on one of these on air cooled bikes that different it is almost instantaneous not quite but real close ! LOL ( however My Triumph doesn't know that as it takes it at least 3 minutes to warm up !(all that cast iron!) ) I guess I am thinking of 250cc 2 stroke machines of the 1970's you only used the choke when snow was on the ground and on the bike and then you had to take it off immediately after starting...then never again on that day...
...anyway the Ninja started and ran perfectly once again....
the idle feels strong ...much better than it did , but when the new tool gets here I will adjust for the fastest idle on each cylinder and then about 1/8 turn more and leave it at that.... that is perfection in my book !
....then I will sync the carbs which I have not done yet... just static sync is all and you can always do better than a static syncing ... and that usually makes the bike run real smoothly too.
....
I took the cover off the RX4 and started her as well and the ECU is slowly getting used to the altitude up here as the sogg is slowly going away
with only 60.1 miles on it it hasn't had that much time to get acquainted with it's surroundings ! HAHAHAHAH
.... it's still tall for me but not overly tall..... I've ridden much worse in my days, but I think it will do !
....
if I didn't have to get all suited up to ride in this cool weather I'ed go for a ride.... but i don't feel like doing all that .... it's a lazy day what can I say !
....
oh....I got a Small dividing head coming for the Mill and lathe, that will make making gears much much easier than last time ! LOL..... I have some lathe repairs coming up in the future that I will need it for !.

Bob......

[thedrewski86]

Originally Posted by Triple Jim

Hyosung GV650 ... Luckily that was the last time I saw that motorcycle.

My first bike purchase was actually a CFMoto 250. It was a horrid thing. I rode it for a couple months then my Dad loaned me his Suzuki for the rest of the Summer (thankfully). I gave it to a buddy of mine who didn't care that it sucked. He ran it low on coolant and popped the headgasket between Chicago and Indianapolis. We were riding together and he just drafted behind me the whole way home. It was fun, but we spent more money on coolant than gas (even more on beer).

Memories...

[Bob KellyIII]

I got to use a Bultaco 250cc for a long while about 2 months a guy I knew had 3 bikes a yamaha MX360cc a Suzuki 250cc and the 1950 something bultaco ,
He had me "Fix them all UP " fix what was wrong and do the service on them so I did but the bultaco was near imposable to get any information on but I did the best I could and he was elated that his old beater ran again ! I explained that I ran each one hard like he wanted me to and that I fell in love with that bultaco ! he was really surprised at that, he said I thought you'ed like the 360 best and I said that thing is a monster ! too much throttle and your on the ground with it...the bultaco is much more sedate and I like just putting around in the woods , so he said keep it for a few months and ride the darn thing it just collects rust at home .... so I did ! that little bultaco and I rode to the top of the hill behind the ranch and I could never do that on any other bike it just wouldn't quit ! and it would go anywhere you had the balls to take it.
.... I found those guys out at the lake one time when the water was real low doing hill climbs so I joined them on my honda 90cc which of course was a joke..... Opie said here Bob.... take the 360 up that hill no body can make it and I am sure this bike can do it but I can't.... it took some convincing but he convinced me to do it.... so I did , we made it with no trouble and I flew over the top and landed about 100 feet on the other side... I caught alot of air on that one.... so I went back down and gave the bike back to him and said you have to hit it fast and at that outcropping you gott'a back off the throttle enough to keep the front down then give it hell .... it was a long hard hill to go up but he gave it another try... came back down and said what the heck did i do wrong that time and i laughed and said at that out cropping you wheeled and lost control that set you for the next bump and then it was all over .... just blip the throttle as your rear wheel hits those rocks ! he tried it once more and finally did what I had been telling him and he sailed over the top and crashed LOL
he ran back to the edge so we could see him with his arms raised in triumph ! and we were all cheering ! those were the days !
wasn't too long after that they outlawed bikes on the lake bottom for some dam reason.... it's like the bottom of the lake what is it hurting to ride on bare ground ??? so we took to back roads and logging roads ! they were more fun anyway....
there were 4 of us that just went riding together and some how I always got chosen to fix their broken bikes... i guess that is what started my bike fixing stuff.... and then the days came when everyone wanted me to port and polish their bikes because I did Hillclimbers bike and they all wanted it done to theirs ! .... port and polish with the crude tools of the day a rotary file and a drill and then a wire wheel and sand paper till you can see yourself in it
... lots of work but seeing the real smiles after they came back and said WOW what'a difference ! made it worth it ! we were all in our late 20's then
all of us had young families too so it was hard to find the time to go ride
but saturday was usually the day ! lol
.... I wish I had someone to ride with out here, there is gillions of roads in the back woods to ride but it's not near as much fun to do that without someone to share it with !
....
later all!
Bob.....