November 28th, 2021, 06:10 PM | #41 | ||
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MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
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Quote:
Here's how it should be. Everything on grey wire is input signal receiving power through ignition-switch +12v source (W wire) through resistor. Other end of grey wire at ignitor is input only, it's not sending out +12v on grey wire.... or is it? Quote:
1. grey wire is fed external +12v somewhere along path (parallel circuit). Inspect grey wire from Ignitor connector and trace all way back to bottom of ignition switch. Is there any additional wires anywhere along path that is feeding it +12v? 2. terminals bridged at connectors between ignition switch and harness. Inspect both sides of connectors between ignition-switch and bike-harness. Verify that ONLY grey wire is connected to terminals on each side and is passed straight-through connectors on each side 3. ignition-switch terminals bridged incorrectly with additional +12v connection to resistor output terminal. This may be possible, however, his earlier test with +6.9v on output terminal of resistor confirms that output power is only delivered through resistor itself. Suspect #1 may be situation with grey wire being connected to additional +12v source. Can perform these tests: 4. unsolder grey wire from ignition switch completely (be careful not to disturb resistor). Key ON, measure for voltage at free end of grey wire recently disconnected from ign-switch. 5. disconnect ignition switch connector from bike harness. Re-measure voltage at free-end of grey wire 6. back-probe grey-wire at Ignitor connector and see what voltage is there. 7. re-do earlier test of measuring voltage at resistor input terminal #1 and then at output terminal #2. This should be repeat of earlier test with +6.9v at resistor output terminal #2 We have 2 independent variables here: resistor and wiring. Resistor checks out OK as it has been measure to properly send out +6.9v for anti-theft detection. Problem is now to track down why wiring is not delivering that +6.9v to Ignitor correctly. |
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November 28th, 2021, 07:03 PM | #42 | |
ninjette.org guru
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Quote:
Maybe neutral or clutch switch Maybe the side stand Maybe a bad relay Maybe a bad pickup coil He could he could try testing CDI box gray wire see it show the same volt and check the value to be sure that at lease good base on this chart. |
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November 28th, 2021, 07:39 PM | #43 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Neil
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Lot of good info here. I will do these test tomorrow about isolating the gray wire. I will be picking up resistors as well.
As for the switches and relays and pick up coil they all check out ok and I have spare pick ups and an extra IC box. I will also test out the ohms on the IC box as well. will get back with you guys about my findings. |
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November 28th, 2021, 07:42 PM | #44 |
ninjette.org member
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After looking at the table and diagram for the IC Box has two plug ports. The box on this bike only has one plug. Is this for a different year than the 2009+. I think the previous generation had two plug ports...
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November 28th, 2021, 07:51 PM | #45 | |
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Quote:
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=254632 |
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November 28th, 2021, 08:12 PM | #46 | |
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MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
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Quote:
No, it's other way around. #1 terminal on resistor is input. Confirmed by him measuring +12.6v on that line. #2 terminal is output as confirmed by measuring +6.9v. This shows that resistor is working properly and dropping +12.6v down to 6.9v. We can calculate how much current is flowing in that circuit by V=IR and plugging in voltage-drop: 12.6v-6.9v = 5.7v drop = I/330-ohms I = 5.7/330 = 0.017 amp = 17 milli-amps Then we can play what-if and see what output-voltage would be on resistor output terminal #2 if he was to replace that resistor with factory/OEM 100-ohm resistor: Vdrop = 0.017a * 100ohms Vdrop = 1.7v Vout = 12.6v - 1.7v = 10.9v output So voltage at output terminal would be 10.9v if he swaps in 100-ohm resistor. This is actually higher than 10v maximum test for anti-theft detection and bike may not start. Other people have had to install larger resistors to drop voltage below 10v before bike would start (EFI expert Greg737?). This is NOT power-source line that powers Ignitor, it's purely for theft/hot-wiring detection. There's no minimum required voltage on that line, just maximum allowed. Which is roughly 10v, anything above it on grey-wire will cause Ignitor to refuse starting bike. Now we just have to figure out what's wrong with wiring that it's delivering +12v on that line to Ignitor instead of proper resistor-output of 6.9v. I suspect someone else got this line confused with power-source and manually attached another +12v line to it after ignition switch. |
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November 28th, 2021, 08:28 PM | #47 | |
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Quote:
https://www.ninjette.org/forums/show...83#post1249383 |
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November 28th, 2021, 08:35 PM | #48 | |
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Quote:
I know some car their dumb detection is the same like Chevy S10 was one them |
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November 28th, 2021, 08:47 PM | #49 | |
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MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
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Quote:
Problem has already been identified, too much voltage on grey wire going into Ignitor. Now just matter of tracking down cause of that high-voltage. Additional test some people have done is cut grey wire and attach 9v battery directly to section going to Ignitor (9v battery ground to chassis-ground). This test will confirm for sure that too much voltage on grey wire from ignition-switch is problem. But... for same amount of effort, he can just restore to factory wiring and rectify problem permanently. |
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November 28th, 2021, 08:57 PM | #50 | |
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MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
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Quote:
Yes, he can disconnect #2 output of resistor from ign-switch terminal (similar to diagram I posted above). However, we already know #2 output terminal is not powered, so isolating it won't change anything. You're right on about grey wire being powered. I suspect someone's tied an additional +12v power wire to grey wire somewhere after ignition switch. Now it's just matter of tracking that sucker down and disconnecting it! |
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November 28th, 2021, 10:02 PM | #51 | |
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Quote:
Last futzed with by shspvr; November 29th, 2021 at 03:19 AM. |
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December 2nd, 2021, 06:14 AM | #52 |
ninjette.org member
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My resisters are coming in today so I will give feedback once I get it installed and see what the voltage is at the igniter. fingers crossed.
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December 2nd, 2021, 11:56 AM | #53 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Neil
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So just put in a resister pretty close to the plug of the igniter AND…still 12V how is this possible? Have any of you had this issue?
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December 2nd, 2021, 12:12 PM | #54 |
ninjette.org member
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Here is the resister in-line.
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December 2nd, 2021, 12:15 PM | #55 |
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
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Have you verified that the wire is unbroken all the way to the other end by using a meter to test its continuity? Full voltage means no current is being drawn on that wire, so either the wire is broken or the thing that should be using that signal is not.
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December 2nd, 2021, 12:28 PM | #56 |
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Name: Neil
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Yes, has continuity and previously I checked voltage with key on and got 12V key off and nothing so the wire is intact
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December 2nd, 2021, 12:28 PM | #57 |
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December 2nd, 2021, 12:32 PM | #58 |
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I did that too, and got 101ohms
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December 2nd, 2021, 12:36 PM | #59 |
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December 2nd, 2021, 12:47 PM | #60 |
ninjette.org member
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At the ignition switch?
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December 2nd, 2021, 12:56 PM | #61 |
ninjette.org member
Name: Neil
Location: Grand rapids
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No voltage when I undid the wire…so it seems like the resister does not drop voltage…
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December 2nd, 2021, 12:57 PM | #62 |
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December 2nd, 2021, 01:00 PM | #63 |
ninjette.org member
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The igniter is not plugged in, I can’t test the voltage when it’s plugged in unless I back probe it but that shouldn’t matter because it’s getting full voltage when it’s unplugged
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December 2nd, 2021, 01:07 PM | #64 |
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December 2nd, 2021, 01:08 PM | #65 |
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A resistor will always show full voltage unless there is a load on it such as the ignitor.
I haven't been through this myself, but I've seen the problem come up often. I found this link: https://forums.ninja250.org/posting....w&t=5252&tro=1 And in that link explaining how to connect a replacement switch: - Connect White to White - Connect Red to Red - Connect Brown to Brown - Jump Brown to Grey with the resistor - Connect OSL Blue or Red/Blue to Blue or Red/Blue on NSL |
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December 2nd, 2021, 01:33 PM | #66 |
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This what you should see with key on
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December 2nd, 2021, 05:35 PM | #67 |
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Everything must be plugged in for resistor to drop voltage. It's current flow that drops voltage. Plug everything back in and back-probe grey-wire terminal at Ignitor connector. What do you measure?
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December 2nd, 2021, 05:42 PM | #68 |
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On this earlier test after you moved grey wire at ignition-switch from resistor input terminal #1 to resistor output terminal #2, how did you measure voltage on grey wire @ Ignitor connector? With connector unplugged? Or plugged into ignitor?
Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; December 3rd, 2021 at 02:21 AM. |
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December 2nd, 2021, 07:49 PM | #69 |
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December 3rd, 2021, 07:01 AM | #70 |
ninjette.org member
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Yes, I was doing this with it unplugged the whole time. I will plug it in and see if I get the proper reading. thank you all for the input.
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December 3rd, 2021, 12:36 PM | #71 |
ninjette.org member
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So good news, after plugging in the exciter, we have spark!! Thank you all for the help I know each of you didn't have to put in this effort but I greatly appreciate everyne of you that worked thru this with me.
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December 3rd, 2021, 01:45 PM | #72 |
ninjette.org guru
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December 3rd, 2021, 04:39 PM | #73 | |
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Quote:
Woohooo!!!! Good job!!! |
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December 3rd, 2021, 06:48 PM | #74 |
ninjette.org member
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Yes, it was around 5.5V
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December 5th, 2021, 11:36 PM | #75 |
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Name: Robert
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LOL... You did Jim ! good work you guys !
this took inside knowledge to figure it out and he was lucky to have you fell'as on his side.... WELL DONE you all get a cookie ! Bob......
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