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Old February 9th, 2018, 07:57 AM   #161
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Hopefully you will make enough to pay off your student loans.

I got a great job before I even graduated. After about 6 years I was supervisor of the central analytical instrument laboratory for a major pharmaceutical company. Nine years into my career I left for a sales job in the analytical instrumentation. Never look back. After many years of working for major analytical instrument manufactures I walked away from working for one company. The last 23 years I started and run may own successful sales and marketing company. Guess what selling scientific instrumentation for several companies not just one. I was their hired gun. Straight commission, I did not cost them anything until I sold something. I broke sales records for every company I took on. Most of these companies had what is known as a "direct sales force". I was under contract, 15% straight commission. All I did was sell. Th instrumentation I sold ranged from $50,000.00 to 350,000.00 dollars. I also had a 2% kicker in the contract for a list price sale. Most of my sales were at list price. The direct sales liked to offer discounts as an inducement. I like to focus on the customers heart and what they wanted. Then I offered a product to fit their hearts desire. I never took a phychology course while getting my degree in chemical engineering, but selling involves a great deal of reading and instening to people.

The money, the perks, recognition, world travel, expense accounts, are all on the sales side of the business.

Your degree may land you a great job, but you are going to need specific training. I lived on the very technical side of the sales business. Many folks think you have to have a certain personality to succeed in sales. You do not. You need to be trained. It is a little being an actor and a professional althete. You have to play your role and remember only those at the top of their game make the big bucks. You also have to love people and use money. Not the other way around.

Get experience and get to the sales side as soon as possible. Some call it the "dark" side, because they do not like to operate in the arena where your accomplishments are measured and recorded every month.

Good luck
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Old February 9th, 2018, 08:29 AM   #162
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Lol. Some of us aren't cut out for sales. At my company, I'm an engineer that sales people don't want talking to customers because I might give them too much truthful information.
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Old February 9th, 2018, 09:02 AM   #163
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Lol. Some of us aren't cut out for sales. At my company, I'm an engineer that sales people don't want talking to customers because I might give them too much truthful information.
You have the same problem most salespeople have. You push their button and the vomit everything they think they know.

Most salespeople rmind me of a big fat alligator. All MOUTH and no EARS.

Rule number one is don't spill all your jelly beans while you are still in the lobby.
Rule number two is salespeople are paid to ask questions.
Rule number three is salespeople are paid to listen to the answers.

Most salespeople do not know how to ask questions.
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Old February 9th, 2018, 01:15 PM   #164
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Rule number four is don't act like you're selling used cars.

I interact with sales engineers daily from various pump, turbo machinery, lubrication, and industrial equipment companies. Some are great because the information flows two ways in a casual conversation about what we're doing, etc. Some are like pulling teeth because they feel smarmy.

I can't stand smarmy sales people. Honestly, smarmy sales people are the biggest reason I look at the used auto market over the new auto market. I've yet to meet a good car sales associate at a dealership. They're all pushy and dumb.
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Old February 9th, 2018, 02:24 PM   #165
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Shouldn't your title read "don't act like a new car salesman"?

By the way I like dumb pushy sales people, they are easy to take advantage of.

Why would you ever want to deal with a sales person who is going to lead you to his product and leave you thinking the whole transaction was your idea.
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Old February 9th, 2018, 02:31 PM   #166
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Shouldn't your title read "don't act like a new car salesman"?
I say used because that's the stereotype. Used Car Salesman. Everyone knows what I'm talking about.
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Old February 9th, 2018, 04:02 PM   #167
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I say used because that's the stereotype. Used Car Salesman. Everyone knows what I'm talking about.
Isn't the politically correct term "previously owned automobile salesperson"?

Anybody seen my Playdough?

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Old February 9th, 2018, 04:27 PM   #168
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That's awesome, Katie! Lots of good coming your way!
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Old February 9th, 2018, 04:58 PM   #169
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Hey cho say what you mean not assuming we know what you meant to say.

Sounds to me you are used to dealing with "buy here pay here" car lots. Save your money and pay cash. I have even taken $15,000.00 dollars in cash to a car dealer in Austin Texas back in 1987. He about crapped when he took my offer to the boss, and I said aren't you forgetting something. He looked at his paperwork, and said "no I think have everything right here". I said you forgot the cash as I opened the briefcase.
Both he and his boss got the message it was a serious offer.
They took it after trying to get more. When they saw me close the briefcase the boss broke and took the money. It was a car for my wife. The process was almost more than she could bare. She got a hot rod Chevy, and I saved a bunch of money.

Being a sales guy I needed a new "company car" every two or three years.

One time as a sales manager I want to a large auto dealership to buy five company cars for a salesforce expansion. I negioated a killer deal on one car. Then I told the manager I needed four more and I needed them delivered to several locations for the same price. Got what I wanted. I saved the company a boat load of money and we did not have to waste time flying folks in to pick up cars.

I have bought a lot of cars. Maybe I should write a book.
Always keep this in mind most car salesman want and need to make the sale. The dealership wants the sale, because of hold backs, advertising and floor costs. Inventory turn over is everything.
Prepare for the job of buying a car. Do your homework. Deal in cash or have your lender pre-approve you for an amount.

Th dealer may have some great financing. Hear hat they have to say. You hold the hammer because you know what your monthly payment will be before you ever get in front of a salesperson.

Oh don't bother with the test ride before you make the deal. You can always stop the process and take the test ride. Boy that will really throw them off.

The invoice price has some good information, but it does not show what the dealer gets back for the manufacture. Start low well under invoice, and work your way up, but always be prepared to walk. The sales persons job is to get you to make an emotional decision now. Turn that on the dealership. Make the dealership get emotional about loosing a sale. They know a lot can happen tomorrow.

One final though we are all sales people, making friends, dating, sports, the office, difference is some know what they are doing and some do not.
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Old February 9th, 2018, 06:16 PM   #170
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Cafe Racer

You're dragging this in a direction that I'm betting quite a lot of people aren't enjoying. We get it, you're a very good salesman. You've done well for yourself. I personally don't care. I rank sales people right up there with lawyers. We should be celebrating Finesse' exciting career path, not listening to your seminars about sales.

Sorry if this offends anyone, but damn, give it a rest.
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Old February 9th, 2018, 06:47 PM   #171
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Cafe Racer

You're dragging this in a direction that I'm betting quite a lot of people aren't enjoying. We get it, you're a very good salesman. You've done well for yourself. I personally don't care. I rank sales people right up there with lawyers. We should be celebrating Finesse' exciting career path, not listening to your seminars about sales.

Sorry if this offends anyone, but damn, give it a rest.
Ditto!

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Old February 9th, 2018, 07:54 PM   #172
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Zaph
Experience is a time consuming, expensive, rough task master. I leave it up to you to lean the hard way. I made my million, have it your way, the hard way.

Ramjet is beyond needing to learn anything new.
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Old February 9th, 2018, 08:40 PM   #173
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Zaph
Experience is a time consuming, expensive, rough task master. I leave it up to you to lean the hard way. I made my million, have it your way, the hard way.

Ramjet is beyond needing to learn anything new.
C.R. I always lean the hard way. At least that's what she said.

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Old February 10th, 2018, 07:48 AM   #174
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Cafe Racer

You're dragging this in a direction that I'm betting quite a lot of people aren't enjoying. We get it, you're a very good salesman. You've done well for yourself. I personally don't care. I rank sales people right up there with lawyers. We should be celebrating Finesse' exciting career path, not listening to your seminars about sales.

Sorry if this offends anyone, but damn, give it a rest.
No need to apologize to him. He hijacked the tread to talk about himself.
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Old February 10th, 2018, 01:37 PM   #175
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Gratz to Katie!
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Old February 10th, 2018, 01:44 PM   #176
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So glad to read Katie!
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Old February 11th, 2018, 06:23 AM   #177
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I wanted to thank everyone who contributed to this thread! I finally got a job!

In early January I decided that I needed to go outside of my house more and talk to more people and put myself "out there" and ask people for opportunities instead of just waiting for something to fall into my lap.

On a 10 degree day in January I decided to walk to this place called Prototype PGH which is a female-owned makerspace/workshop about a mile from my house. They are a really cool nonprofit organization that strives to help women do cool things. While I was there, I met the founder, who was interested in my idea to teach a workshop about what to look for when buying a used motorcycle from Craigslist. So I'm set up to teach that on March 3!

I also met a girl who's a mechanical engineer for Carnegie Robotics here in Pittsburgh. Long story short, she ended up getting me an interview as a Manufacturing Technician and lo and behold I start my new job on Monday as a Robotics Manufacturing & Engineering Tech. WTF???

I also searched on facebook a little bit and found a group called MoPitt who are a bunch of moped fanatics who happen to have a sweet 2-car garage TWO BLOCKS from my house where they tinker with mopeds all the time! There were like 25 random assortment mopeds in there with motors half apart and everything. They even invited me to get tacos with them, which I did, and they seem really cool and knowledgeable about peds. (My inexplicable obsession in life...)

I also was out walking my dog one day and saw a guy with a CB750 motor in the back of a van, so I talked to him, turns out he's an ER doctor who's opening up a small shop as a place for him to build custom bikes and do metal fabrication and just tinker with stuff. He said I am totally welcome to hang out and learn to weld and do some machining stuff and build bikes and use tools! He's having an opening party thing on Saturday.

Cool things happened as soon as I stopped sitting at home and just left my house and talked to people. Some of this stuff has been here all along and some is new, but it's really been worth putting the effort into actively finding opportunities and showing up and leaving my house.

So I just wanted to say, if you're feeling stuck or frustrated, GO OUTSIDE and talk to people!! You never know where it might take you!
Congratulations. Sounds like lots of opportunity you are creating.
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Old February 19th, 2018, 05:26 PM   #178
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Sales sounds horrible to me. Not at all something I'd ever be interested in. Makes my skin and insides crawl.

I didn't get fired yet ... I'm constantly worried about that though. My boss told me that he passed over two more qualified techs because I was the only one who wrote thank you letters for my interviews and because, basically, the company could potentially make a lot of money off me since I'm a blank slate to train how they want (that's not how he phrased it).

Just trying to stfu and do the best I can and not make any mistakes or chat too much (already did both...)

Thank you all for your well wishes.. this hasn't been an easy path and I am not on solid footing but it's progress. Cheers
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Old February 20th, 2018, 08:38 AM   #179
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Sounds like he was well aware that you're inexperienced, and so (if he's a decent person) understands and accepts that you're going to make some mistakes as you learn. New jobs are nerve wracking sometimes, keep up the good work!
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Old February 20th, 2018, 06:36 PM   #180
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I didn't get fired yet ... I'm constantly worried about that though. My boss told me that he passed over two more qualified techs because I was the only one who wrote thank you letters for my interviews and because, basically, the company could potentially make a lot of money off me since I'm a blank slate to train how they want (that's not how he phrased it).
If he brings up the topic (I'd be careful about initiating the conversation myself), I would try to nail down a professional development plan with your boss. It shouldn't be a 1-way street at all - what do they expect you to be proficient at and by what time (ie, in 3 months, we expect you to be capable of handling the following things on your own), and what you can reasonably expect from them in terms of training and mentorship.

Having that out in the open makes understanding explicit expectations from them much easier, makes it easier to know where you're doing well or struggling, makes it easier to identify what you need to work on (and when its appropriate to ask), and can make it easier to have conversations about these things before firing is even a point of discussion.

All of the above is much easier said than done but if you see an opening to have that kind of conversation, take it.

Just my two cents; congrats on the job.
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Old February 20th, 2018, 07:57 PM   #181
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I didn't get fired yet ... I'm constantly worried about that though. My boss told me that he passed over two more qualified techs because I was the only one who wrote thank you letters for my interviews and because, basically, the company could potentially make a lot of money off me since I'm a blank slate to train how they want (that's not how he phrased it).

Just trying to stfu and do the best I can and not make any mistakes or chat too much (already did both...)

Thank you all for your well wishes.. this hasn't been an easy path and I am not on solid footing but it's progress. Cheers
skills could be taught and learnt. But seldom would you see basic courtesy being showed by a candidate that we interviewed. Personally, I would be in the same decision with your boss. Any candidate that could converse well, conduct themselves appropriately and even answering appropriately is an eye catcher to me on the first impression. Skills, second. I would always start my conversation by greeting candidate "How do you do?" and see how they would respond to my greeting.

Courtesy is a long lifetime learning proces, which sometimes even we failed to show it.
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Old February 20th, 2018, 10:10 PM   #182
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skills could be taught and learnt. But seldom would you see basic courtesy being showed by a candidate that we interviewed. Personally, I would be in the same decision with your boss. Any candidate that could converse well, conduct themselves appropriately and even answering appropriately is an eye catcher to me on the first impression. Skills, second. I would always start my conversation by greeting candidate "How do you do?" and see how they would respond to my greeting.

Courtesy is a long lifetime learning proces, which sometimes even we failed to show it.
Whenever I hired someone it was based upon their work ethic and positive attitude - I can teach them the rest. If they don't have the work ethic and positive attitude you can;t teach that - it starts at home when they are raised. The U.S. Army says officers are made not born.

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Old March 22nd, 2018, 03:48 PM   #183
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Guys... this job/company/industry is totally not for me.

Pretty sure I'm going back to my shop in July!
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Old March 22nd, 2018, 04:36 PM   #184
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Guys... this job/company/industry is totally not for me.

Pretty sure I'm going back to my shop in July!
Not sure what you're referencing. Being a motorcycle wrench? Ah, well, I give you credit for trying - how else would you know.

Chin up,

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Old March 22nd, 2018, 04:38 PM   #185
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Not sure what you're referencing. Being a motorcycle wrench? Ah, well, I give you credit for trying - how else would you know.

Chin up,

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The robot gig is not for me. I want to go back to wrenching
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Old March 22nd, 2018, 06:06 PM   #186
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are you quitting a job or a boss?

Cuz I quit employment recently and... honestly... I'm mostly quitting a management group, not a job.
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Old March 22nd, 2018, 06:19 PM   #187
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are you quitting a job or a boss?

Cuz I quit employment recently and... honestly... I'm mostly quitting a management group, not a job.

From my experience most people change jobs due to lack of respect for their company's management team.

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Old March 22nd, 2018, 07:19 PM   #188
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are you quitting a job or a boss?

Cuz I quit employment recently and... honestly... I'm mostly quitting a management group, not a job.
I'd rather work with good people in a "meh" job than a dream job with a boss (or co-workers) from hell.
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Old March 22nd, 2018, 08:48 PM   #189
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I'd rather work with good people in a "meh" job than a dream job with a boss (or co-workers) from hell.
I would, too, and I think most people would. That's what the polls say, anyway, and it seems reasonable.

I hope you find a job that suits you better, Finesse. I'm glad you tried this one. You don't know how you'll like it until you try, right?
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Old March 23rd, 2018, 06:09 AM   #190
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From my experience most people change jobs due to lack of respect for their company's management team.

Bill
So true. And if not management, it's co-workers. To be honest, I don't even care all that much what I do for a living as long as I work with good people, and make enough money to pay my bills and ride my bikes.

Good luck Finesse in your search, we are all rooting for you.
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I want to "like" your post but I can't due to forum rules. Sorry.
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Old March 23rd, 2018, 12:40 PM   #191
Lazarus
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Name: RJ
Location: PA
Join Date: Dec 2015

Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250

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At least you are honest with yourself. I know a lot of people who work in jobs they hate just because of the good pay, or proximity to their house, etc etc then all I hear from them is how much they hate their job, Co workers, blah blah blah

Keep being honest in what you want to do and you'll find it. Best of luck!
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