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Old March 15th, 2018, 08:23 PM   #1
bowlbug
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Seating posture??

I have been riding and enjoying a little 07 250. I am looking at a bit bigger bikes. I had had people tell the 600 I would sit almost the same as the 250. Is there any truth to this? Wanting bigger but not the leak over the tank.
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Old March 15th, 2018, 09:43 PM   #2
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Old March 15th, 2018, 09:55 PM   #3
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Yep. Completely depends on the 600 class bike you're thinking about. Ranges from racebike stance with clipons below the height of the seat (R6, 6R, etc), to more laid-back and comfortable positions with street-biased bikes like the 650R.
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Old March 16th, 2018, 12:05 AM   #4
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I agree with the boss man (except for the "clip ons below the height of the seat" bit... they're low, but not THAT low).

A step-up sport bike, vs. a true supersport, is what you're looking for. 600s are supersports.

Assuming you're looking for the same style of bike, i.e., a fully-faired machine. If you go half-faired or naked, the field opens up considerably (if I were to buy a naked right this second, it'd be a Yamaha MT-07, aka the FZ-07 prior to this year... rode one at a demo day and loved it).

So in current bikes the Ninja 650, Honda CBR650F and Honda CBR500R come to mind.

Older bikes that are now discontinued include the Suzuki SV650SF, Suzuki GSX650F, Yamaha FZ6R, and the Kawasaki Ninja 500 or EX500 (similar to your pregen but bigger). The Honda CBR600F4i is a bit closer to a supersport but is fairly mild.

Of all of those older bikes, the SV650SF is my favorite. It's identical to the SV650 but fully dressed. That V-twin motor is terrific... torquey and good power for the street.

The GS650F is what used to be called the Katana back in the day. Kind of heavy, unremarkable. Rare. But it superficially like a GSXR so projects a "racier" image.

The FZ6R is also rather heavy, but is built around a detuned YZF-R6 supersport engine so it's got solid underpinnings.

The Ninja 500/EX500 is a bike I used to own. It has its shortcomings (I never did like the seat at all, and ridden hard it can be a bit flexy) but it's a nice blend of power and weight. Technically it's half-faired, but you usually see them with chin fairings so it comes across as fully faired.

The CBR600F4i was on my consideration list but I've never ridden one. Has a good rep as a "gentleman's sport bike" that isn't as hard-core as some.
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Old March 16th, 2018, 05:09 AM   #5
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More importantly, what are you looking for in a bigger bike?

What is your budget?

Are your riding mostly highway speed? or city commute that require constant lane-splitting?

Do you require good amount of underseat storage? or side pannier carrying capacity?

Do you plan on carrying a passenger for some trips?

There are lots of different 600 class bikes to choose from, specify your parameters would allow more helpful suggestions.
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Old March 16th, 2018, 08:31 AM   #6
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Somewhat OT but food for thought since the original question was about posture.

I actually PREFER more aggressive ergos. Here's why.

A couple of months after I bought my 08 Ninjette I had a couple of vacation weeks to burn, so I decided to take a tour and rode out to Indianapolis for the MotoGP race, then took a meandering route home. By the end of it I'd ridden something like 2,800 miles. That gave me a LOT of seat time to think about exactly what hurt, why it hurt, and what I could do about it.

What I concluded after many hours in the saddle was this:

- Putting weight on your butt hurts. It's more comfortable to lean forward, put your weight on your thighs and get it off the pointy bits of your pelvis (your "sit bones"). I was a lot more comfortable leaning forward, putting weight on the tank and tank bag, and putting my feet back (toes on the pegs). You can simulate this in a hard-backed or office chair: Scoot forward and perch on the front edge with your feet back under you. You should be able to slide your hand under your butt. See? No weight on your a$$.

- Weight on your arms and wrists hurts. Better to put your weight on the tank and leave your hands and arms loose.

After that trip I bought clip-ons and rearset adjusters to give the bike more supersport-like ergos. Much more comfortable for me if used correctly.

I now ride a supersport on the street and the only thing that hurts -- no kidding -- is my knees. That's more because of my age than anything. Zero discomfort in my wrists and none on my butt.

But... supersports are hard on your wrists, right? Sure, if you do what a lot of people do and insist on stiff-arming the bike. I don't do that. I ride low, with my chest/belly on the tank. Arms are always loose. So no pain in the wrists. That same posture automatically pulls my butt up off the seat, so no pain in my butt either. I'm pretty much hugging the bike.

Are there drawbacks to this posture? Well, you do have to look up all the time because otherwise you'll be craning your neck. I have to wear glasses, so to accomplish this I use contacts when riding. It's also a bit more of an athletic thing, in that you're using muscles in your core and thighs that you wouldn't otherwise use when sitting upright.
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Old March 16th, 2018, 01:41 PM   #7
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I'm used to sitting on a carbon-fibre seat for 3-5hrs/day. So I like having my clip-ons at knee-level...
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Old March 16th, 2018, 02:45 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
I'm used to sitting on a carbon-fibre seat for 3-5hrs/day. So I like having my clip-ons at knee-level...
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Old March 16th, 2018, 09:14 PM   #9
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Wow. Thanks for the info. I like to sit up a bit, Very comfortable on to 250. A yes looking for a bit more power. And because I commute in the fog 60% of the time I like the plastic that I can wipe down. Rust is a big problem for me I am hardly ever more that 1/2 mile from the beach. This is the bike I am looking at. And I would like to stay under $2,000
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/scz/mcy...528749388.html
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Old March 17th, 2018, 05:37 AM   #10
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Nice choice, assuming you're mechanically inclined and have the time, space and tools to work on it. That bike is going to need a fair bit of TLC if it's to become a reliable runner.

A principle I now live by after decades of experience: Every project takes twice as long and costs three times as much as you think it will.

The challenge you might run into in keeping a 22-year-old bike on the road is parts availability. You might want to think that through and look into it, at least for stuff that will wear in normal use.

Given its age and the fact that it's been sitting neglected for years, assume right away that anything made of rubber will need to be replaced. Brake lines, caliper seals, fork seals, carb diaphragms, vacuum, vent and coolant hoses, miscellaneous gaskets and O-rings (e.g. tank, petcock), tires, plug wires/boots, maybe bearing seals.... you get the picture. It's not rocket surgery but that bike is so old that you can't take anything for granted. So... can you find all those parts?

That bike is a lot like the CBR600F4i I mentioned in terms of ergos. Be aware that it's a LOT heavier than your Ninjette.
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Old March 17th, 2018, 01:07 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bowlbug View Post
I have been riding and enjoying a little 07 250. I am looking at a bit bigger bikes. I had had people tell the 600 I would sit almost the same as the 250. Is there any truth to this? Wanting bigger but not the leak over the tank.
Consider the Versys 300 or 650.
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Old March 17th, 2018, 06:52 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adouglas View Post
Be aware that it's a LOT heavier than your Ninjette.
Also due to the steering geometry, it takes A LOT more force and work to force that bike to turn compared to telepathic control of the Ninjette. Feels easily twice the weight and you end up with sore shoulders, chest and arms after riding it.

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Old March 17th, 2018, 07:57 PM   #13
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Had to do it. I took the 600 for a short ride today. Leaning forward was a bit much form me I do prefer the 250. The power was nice would be much better after some work. Great for getting out of the way while splitting lanes. In the end I did not buy it. Not a comfortable, Needed a lot of work. And it might have been this bike but it did not handle well. Thanks for and the input it did come in handy looking at the bike. If I find a nice 500 maybe i'll move up.
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Old March 18th, 2018, 07:17 AM   #14
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Cool

If lane-splitting is a regular occurrence on each of your ride, 07 Ninja 250 is an ideal ride.

I've commuted in NYC metro area on my 07 Ninja 250 between 2013 & 2016, dozen times a year I also ride it on the highway 120 miles one-way between NYC and Phila suburbs, sustained 65-85 mph for 30-40 miles.

Ultimately, I feel that Ninja 250 though well suited for my commute, lack the storage capacity that I need. Adding side panniers or top cases just throw off the balance and ruin the entertaining factor of the small nimble machine.

Since my NYC commute require me to transport food items that are large and odd in shapes/sizes, I needed something with a large underseat capacity.
I replaced my 07 Ninja 250 with a Burgman 650. Twist-n-go in bumper-to-bumper traffic, triple digit speed capable and enough underseat storage for two fullface helmets. Yes, it is a much heavier bike than Ninja 250, but majority of the weight is down low to the ground and handling is different from Ninja 250, but IMO easier to ride in tight traffic pattern.

I bought my 05 Burgman 650 back in 2016 for $1750, it had 7k miles on odometer. Now it has over 12k mi. No more chain maintenance. Riding position is upright.. even has a backrest.

Determine your criteria for your next bike, not just base on riding position, consider what you encounter every ride, how much stuff you need to carry on your bike, performance needs.
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Old March 18th, 2018, 02:45 PM   #15
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Yea I am one of those crazy's that split lanes. And to 250 fit the bill. Would like a bit more power to get out of the way when the light changes.
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Old March 18th, 2018, 03:19 PM   #16
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Lane splitting can easily be done safely and sensibly.
It's the driving population who are not used to 2-wheel vehicles that usually cause incidents that prevent the popularity of lane-splitting in this country.

I have lived in countries where 2-wheel vehicle outnumber cars, where lane-splitting occurs more than car being driven on roads. You think they even bother to make up laws regulating lane-splitting? Only in america that you need laws to regulate something that is common sense.

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Old March 18th, 2018, 08:26 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex View Post
Yep. Completely depends on the 600 class bike you're thinking about. Ranges from racebike stance with clipons below the height of the seat (R6, 6R, etc), to more laid-back and comfortable positions with street-biased bikes like the 650R.
But in many cases you can install different handlebars/risers that can improve your riding.
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Old March 18th, 2018, 08:36 PM   #18
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For $2,000 I would look into an SV650. You'll find them in decent condition, albeit high mileage, at that price.

For $3,000-$3,500, you can find them with lower mileage (I've seen some really clean ones, around 8k miles) and not ragged out or dropped.

Commuting on the highway is something I thought about doing on the ninja, but not just yet...and only on Saturday mornings, when there is no traffic at 5:30am
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