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Old March 23rd, 2013, 05:15 AM   #41
tubarney
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Why does your lower crank case half need re-painting? There isn't a mark on mine.

The roads in your area must have a lot of crap on them.
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Old March 23rd, 2013, 05:51 AM   #42
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Must be. The front lower was beat and heavily chipped. Plus paint was bubbling. I have it taped off now and just need to heat up the garage to paint.
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Old March 23rd, 2013, 11:36 PM   #43
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I'm guessing it's cold in Milwaukee right now. How long till you get your crank back?

I just measured the bearing clearances with plasti-gauge. Make sure your journals and bearings are completely oil free when you do it. I had to do it twice as the first time my plast-gauge disappeared. Also, be careful when putting the balance shaft in not the spin either one, put crank in first.

I got 0.025 mm on the crank and in between 0.025 and 0.038 mm on the balance shaft. All my journal diameters are high in the standard range on both crank and balance shaft.

I'm getting the journals on both micro-polished because the bearings are so badly worn. It takes off 0.005 mm so I am going to replace the yellow and blue bearings with the same colour. I should be on the loose end of spec but still well within the 0.038 for crank and 0.044 for balance shaft.

I will basically have a brand new bottom end.

With assembly I will clean every hole & bearing with compressed air and brake cleaner. Oil everything up with a 10:1 mixture of Motul v300 and Dow Corning Molykote G-N assembly paste.

My crank will be ready by wed or thurs this week. Just waiting for bob weights to be custom made. Will assemble over the Easter weekend.

Last futzed with by tubarney; March 24th, 2013 at 02:10 AM.
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Old March 24th, 2013, 12:42 AM   #44
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Here's a pic of the plasti-gauge. This is the journal of the bearing that is badly worn. You can see the journal is still in pretty good condition.
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Old March 24th, 2013, 02:47 AM   #45
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Good job having the crank polished.
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Old March 24th, 2013, 06:27 AM   #46
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Got the lower half of the case painted last night along with the water pump. Brakes were bled with rbf600 and I got the tires changed.

On the side I fixed another bikes carb with all new parts as well.

I will have a brand new bottom end when I am done as well. Thank you for the update. My crank should be back next week. Then the major rebuild starts.

Will post pics soon.
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Old March 24th, 2013, 06:45 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer x View Post
Good job having the crank polished.
Eric I must apologise, you are correct. The factory balance is 50%.

After researching this balance stuff for 3 weeks,a few books later, I am still confused.

Now, balance factor has nothing to do with the weight of the counterweights. You can take the weight of them and still balance it to the same balance factor. Don't ask, I'm just as confused. This is something you leave to the experts. Problem is, finding a 'expert' can be tricky as I found a few knob heads along the way who didn't know s*** and couldn't balance a tire if their life depended on it.

Lucky for me I have hit the jackpot. I found Adrian from High Tech Dynamics who does balancing for a few Australian Superbike Teams.

He wont tell me what balance factor he is going to use but says it will be smoother than before.

He says I can knife edge the small side of the counterweight no problem, he can just take weight out of the other side to even things up. I can knife edge the big side but it would require mallory. Which aint cheap. He has a callies crank for an r1 there atm which is going to cost 1100 for 4 big ass slugs of mallory because it was knife edge a lot.

He drew me a few guide lines. This how much is being taken off. A 45 degree angle will be put on the edge also. I found a mobile crankshaft grinder, he picking it up in the morning. Turns out my crank will be lighten to
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Old March 24th, 2013, 06:45 PM   #48
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Also. Anyone in Sydney, Australia. AVOID ACTION CRANK IN WETHERILL PARK like the plague. You might as well burn your cash, I bet it would be more fun to.
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Old March 24th, 2013, 08:01 PM   #49
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Also. Anyone in Sydney, Australia. AVOID ACTION CRANK IN WETHERILL PARK like the plague. You might as well burn your cash, I bet it would be more fun to.
Ouch. Mine will not be $1100, but it ain't cheap either.

Seems like all good shops will not reveal their factors. And yes I too do not understand it so I am paying for it. Cannot wait to get it back.

Still doing little tasks to keep things moving but no big updates.
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Old March 25th, 2013, 04:54 AM   #50
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some pics of the painted case and water pump
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Old March 25th, 2013, 04:56 AM   #51
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some pics of the controls and wiring. Can you guess which is the launch control?
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Old March 25th, 2013, 04:57 AM   #52
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pic of the shock
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Old March 25th, 2013, 04:58 AM   #53
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pics of the head
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Old March 25th, 2013, 05:01 AM   #54
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interesting points to note on the head:

1) the intake port is the stock bore at the boot junction and the rubber boot lines up nicely.
2) the exhaust bore is [now?] 27.44mm and the exhaust is too small to flow nicely. Of course it may have been like this before but I honestly do not remember I may have to get a custom one here, but we'll see. any suggestions?
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Old March 25th, 2013, 06:36 AM   #55
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I was worried because my crank is done. And they did it at 50%.

You can cut the part the goes into the head. But it still will not be larger. I went with a first gen header. Maybe you can fab up a header
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Old March 25th, 2013, 01:07 PM   #56
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anyone know where I can get a custom exhaust made? I called area P and they wont touch it until September!!

they did talk to me for awhile about some good ideas on how to build a great exhaust though....
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Old March 25th, 2013, 03:01 PM   #57
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so...now I'm selling my exhaust. I will start fresh and not butcher the area p.

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...456#post656456
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Old March 25th, 2013, 03:39 PM   #58
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what did they recommend? found this

http://youtu.be/lynL7IUGXLQ
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Old March 26th, 2013, 06:59 AM   #59
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That port work looks very nice. I always feel bad about assembling such nicely ported engine parts. It's like hiding art work in your closet instead of hanging it on the wall.

Something to consider on balancing that may help in understanding things. Crank weights can counteract the up and down forces of the piston and rod. The weights go in opposite directions. When the piston goes up, the weight is going down and vice versa. What is not corrected by the crank weights is the front and back force created when the crank weights are at the 3 and 6 oclock position. This is one area that balance shafts help improve. You will always have some part of the cycle where the piston/rod and crank weights are in a position that creates vibration. Balancing can help limit that and move it to a different RPM, but not eliminate it. If you ever have the opportunity to see an older Harley idling look at the front wheel. The flywheels on a Harley are massive and the whole bike appears to move forward and back a couple of inches at idle. On some of the newer (and older) bikes the engine is rubber mounted to reduce the vibration felt by the rider. The engine dances all over in the frame. On some of the later bikes the engine uses a balance shaft. These are all ways to reduce the vibration felt by the rider, but it does not eliminate it. BTW...before you guys flame me, I only used Harley because it is an extreme example that makes things easier to visualize.
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Old March 26th, 2013, 08:06 AM   #60
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That port work looks very nice. I always feel bad about assembling such nicely ported engine parts. It's like hiding art work in your closet instead of hanging it on the wall.

Something to consider on balancing that may help in understanding things. Crank weights can counteract the up and down forces of the piston and rod. The weights go in opposite directions. When the piston goes up, the weight is going down and vice versa. What is not corrected by the crank weights is the front and back force created when the crank weights are at the 3 and 6 oclock position. This is one area that balance shafts help improve. You will always have some part of the cycle where the piston/rod and crank weights are in a position that creates vibration. Balancing can help limit that and move it to a different RPM, but not eliminate it. If you ever have the opportunity to see an older Harley idling look at the front wheel. The flywheels on a Harley are massive and the whole bike appears to move forward and back a couple of inches at idle. On some of the newer (and older) bikes the engine is rubber mounted to reduce the vibration felt by the rider. The engine dances all over in the frame. On some of the later bikes the engine uses a balance shaft. These are all ways to reduce the vibration felt by the rider, but it does not eliminate it. BTW...before you guys flame me, I only used Harley because it is an extreme example that makes things easier to visualize.
I was so going to flame you for using the terms "harley" and "balance" anywhere near each other....don't even get me started.

Yea, Falicon explained it to me that they would move the vibration out of the perceptible range (i.e. above 15,000 rpm). We should all realize that it will never go away.

As for exhausts, I got my ideas but I am still confirming them. Once I have a solution I will share so that everyone knows. @tubarney what are you doing in this area?
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Old March 27th, 2013, 06:47 PM   #61
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And...I'm back. I have an idea brewing on the exhaust with my local machine shop. I will meet with him late this week early next week to finalize but I will be taking a consumer exhaust and modifying it to fit and hug the outside of the port.

Still nothing on the crank....just waiting.

Otherwise, I continue to do little projects here and there. Contemplating buying a DB windscreen....and the coils that @RacerX has I think this qualifies me for most expensive 250 on this board.....I can never sell this thing.
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Old March 27th, 2013, 07:00 PM   #62
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What's your budget for this whole exercise?
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Old March 28th, 2013, 01:06 PM   #63
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What's your budget for this whole exercise?
ha. lets just say I could have bought a new big bike.
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Old March 28th, 2013, 01:08 PM   #64
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crank should be back next week! I'm so excited. does anyone have the weight of the stock crank? I forgot to weigh it when I removed it since I wanted to get it out so fast.

Also, I'm think about using this oil for break-in. http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produc...ont%2fbrk.aspx

so many projects require the motor to be in the bike...go figure.
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Old March 29th, 2013, 04:52 AM   #65
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got the Diablo II's mounted up and on the bike. Also mounted the front fender last night.
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Old March 29th, 2013, 05:48 AM   #66
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I use Amsoil I have been running REPSOL for a number of years.

Break in oil is a good idea. but the procedure is key. I like breaking in the engine on SAE 30. Since the engine will be a street engine. I will assume you are not breaking it in with a dyno. I do this because I can't ride on the street.

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

I have used this method for years. First people showed me the run it hard but careful method. Then I read this and have used this procedure on all my motors.

First gen crank with stator is 16.25 lb
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Old March 29th, 2013, 10:08 AM   #67
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I follow the mototune method for the most part as well. I will also most liekly be using straight SAE 30 but I found the amsoil stuf interesting. Time will tell.
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Old March 29th, 2013, 01:10 PM   #68
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First gen crank with stator is 16.25 lb
Hmmm...Don't know what the stator weighs but that is very useful. I talked to Falicon and they said my crank is 11 lbs 5 oz currently. They are not quite 100% done balancing it yet and their technician is still removing weight.
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Old March 29th, 2013, 02:10 PM   #69
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Break in.

I like the mototune method as well EXCEPT for the initial start up. The way it was explained to me by an article I read from a piston manufacturer was that one of the ring's jobs is to transfer heat to the cylinder to be dissipated. A new ring is not perfectly round and/or in flat contact with the cylinder. This leaves very small contact areas for heat to transfer and only a small percentage of the heat that is supposed to be transferred to the cylinder does. They said that the ring will actually "microweld" itself to the pistons from the heat build up. In other words there will be tiny spots where the ring sticks to, then breaks free from the piston where it sits in the ring land. This creates imperfections between the surface of the ring and piston where they touch and will cause the ring to not be able to seal properly. Low compression will result. They had a bike that was a new engine build as their example.They also said that new rings did not correct the problem and piston replacement was the answer. Their recommendation was to "heat cycle" the engine on inital start up. In other words run the engine gently until it JUST starts to warm up, but before any real heat is put into the cylinders. Cool off the engine to room temp and repeat. I forgot how many times they recommended, but I do 5 or 6 cycles. I have used this method on many engines I have built and it works. Now for the bad part....for the life of me I can't remember what piston company it was so could post a link to the article. Sorry guys.
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Old March 30th, 2013, 06:29 AM   #70
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quick update. I couldn't find a crank grinder that could do it before 8th April, so I decided to do it myself as it aint hard, just extremely time consuming. It's actually coming up pretty good. I will take some photo's when it is done.

I will be finished knife edging the crank by tuesday. It will take me 8+ hours of grinding to get what I want off. 1 ounce off the top of each web, Adrian will take off 4 on the other sides to even things out which will be a half pound in total.

Balance on tues or wed. micro-polishing done same day or maybe a day later.

Looks like we will be assembling around the same time.
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Old March 30th, 2013, 07:31 AM   #71
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Awesome. I take it you know the stock crank only weight then? Glad to hear that you've got it worked out.

You will probably have yours assembled faster as I only get two hours every other night to work on things.
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Old March 30th, 2013, 07:02 PM   #72
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Awesome. I take it you know the stock crank only weight then? Glad to hear that you've got it worked out.
I was going to ask you. Didn't Falicon weight it before they started? I thought they would have wanted to brag how light they got it.

If only I had a pair of scales that could weigh the crank. The only scales I have capable of that weight aren't very accurate (2lbs off).

Hopefully my balance guy can tell me how much I took off. Then he can weight it and work backwards to get a number.

Our stator's will weight different as they have balancing weights on them.

I'm pretty sure I've taken a little more than 1 ounce off each web. I've been weighing the chunks I cut off, but I don't know how much the shavings weigh.

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You will probably have yours assembled faster as I only get two hours every other night to work on things.
2 hours every other night!! I feel sorry for you. I'm studying at university (same as college in the states) so I have more than enough time to burn.
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Old March 30th, 2013, 07:21 PM   #73
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a photo to give you an idea of what I'm doing. I must stress this is not the final shape or finish.

I will post photo's as I go
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Old March 30th, 2013, 09:50 PM   #74
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I have 2 edges done. Just need to sand and polish them up.

I have another edge almost done with 1 still un-touched.
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Old March 31st, 2013, 02:29 AM   #75
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anyone know where I can get a custom exhaust made? I called area P and they wont touch it until September!!

they did talk to me for awhile about some good ideas on how to build a great exhaust though....
I noticed how crap the exhaust lines up to on mine. I think I'm going to have to do something about it. Not for a while but. I'm over it for now, I just want to get out and ride.

You should be able to find an exhaust shop that can custom make something. Lets face it. You take some pipe, bend it, then weld it. Its not that complicated.

Around here I would just go to Mr. Muffler Man and get him to fab me a set of headers welded to a bit of straight pipe. It should cost me 200-300 dollars for an hour or 2 of work + pipe. But I'm not sure I want to draw that much attention on the street.

I can almost guarantee you can get one fab for the same or cheaper.

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Old March 31st, 2013, 02:31 AM   #76
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I have 1 web to go. The other just need a bit of a touch up to even things out. Then I have to sand and polish them smooth and shinny.

It's like trying to carve stone. Not to mention you have to wait for bits/wheels and of course the crank to cool down as you can't get it hot.

I don't let it get to hot that I can't hold my hand on the web. Meaning it doesn't get hotter than 80C/175F. You have no chance of bending it at this temp. I will still get it checked for straightness when I'm done.

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Old March 31st, 2013, 06:00 AM   #77
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Thanks for all the info! I will have the new exhaust done this week and the crank back. I will post pics asap.
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Old March 31st, 2013, 07:18 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgentz View Post
Thanks for all the info! I will have the new exhaust done this week and the crank back. I will post pics asap.
I wish I had photo's of your crank as a guide. Can't wait to see what it looks like, I'm sure it will look a lot better than mine. For what Falicon are doing to your crank they are actually charging you a good price. Would cost me a little less to do what they are doing unless there is mallory in it then it is a very good price.

I just wish we had the weight of the stock crank to compare.
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Old March 31st, 2013, 09:10 AM   #79
mgentz
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Motorcycle(s): 250R (street), 250R (dirt)

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@Racer x gave us the stock weight with flywheel. I can weigh the flywheel and go from there. Or...I will go on eBay and ask a seller to weigh it.
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Old March 31st, 2013, 09:42 PM   #80
tubarney
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Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250r 2010 SE

Posts: 573
I have finished grinding finally. It took me 15 hours to do. The 2 outside webs have been made the same shape while the 2 inside webs have been made the same shape. This is why the edges don't look even.

Tools used included an angle grinder and die grinder with a carbide burr.

Now its time to sand and polish.
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