June 15th, 2016, 12:19 AM | #1 |
The Violet Vixen
Name: Yakaru
Location: Issaquah, WA & Las Vegas, NV
Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): Perigee (250), Hotaru (250), Saturn (300), Pearl (300), Zero (S1000RR), Chibi (Z125), Xellos ('18 HP4R) Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '16
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1 thing I don't understand about track photographers (#1 will blow your mind)
Okay, this is a bit of a rant.
I don't understand why track photographers work the way they do. Now that I've been to some track days, have gone to CSS a number of times, and talked with a few people who've gone to other organizations there seems to be a consistent pattern: Photographers get out for the first few sessions and then skip the end of the day. This really bugs me. The start of the day is when you're at your most conservative, when you're feeling things out, when your lines aren't right yet. If you're only going to photograph for half the day, I'd rather it be the second half. Now, I understand some reasons for this -- photographers who sell 'on site' often use the back half of the day to process and display the photos to riders so they can make some sales. It makes sense. But it still bothers me. I'm not sure what to do about it though. Should I talk to the photographers about it? I don't want to be a bitch or anything. Sorry, ramble over. |
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June 15th, 2016, 12:28 AM | #2 |
The Corner Whisperer
Name: Chris (aka Reactor)
Location: Northern KY
Join Date: May 2011 Motorcycle(s): 2010 250 (track), 1992 250, 2006 R6 (street/track), 2008 R6 (track) Posts: Too much.
MOTY 2015, MOTM - Nov '12, Nov '13
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Yakaru, you just haven't been to a track with a really great photographer. One that shoots every session and sets up 3 flat screen terminals for you to preview what they have taken before you buy them AND has an assistant for planned really busy days.
Photography is an art, and sometimes... artists are fickle.
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Goal: Shake A Million Hands | Look through the corners | Track Day Prep | Closest track? | The Mid-Ohio School |
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June 15th, 2016, 02:33 AM | #3 |
#squid
Name: nickypoo
Location: Five Guys
Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): Track dedicated 2008 ZX6R Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jul '16
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Depends. The photographer at NYST, 572 Creations, usually shoots every session every day. Hard work.
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June 15th, 2016, 05:02 AM | #4 |
Fighting Texas Aggie '05
Name: Neil
Location: Hutto, TX
Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): '07 ZX6R, '08 Versys, '09 250R Track, '93 F2/F3 Track Posts: A lot.
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It has been a bit of a mixed bag in my experience as well. I have had days where every session was well represented and nearly every rider had some good pics, and other times I literally have been on track the whole day and only had two or three not so great pics snapped. Sometimes even with the same photographer lol.
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June 15th, 2016, 05:32 AM | #5 |
#squid
Name: nickypoo
Location: Five Guys
Join Date: Jul 2011 Motorcycle(s): Track dedicated 2008 ZX6R Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jul '16
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Some of these guys just do this for "fun", so I wouldn't expect consistent performances.
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June 15th, 2016, 07:13 PM | #6 |
ninjette.org member
Name: El Jefe
Location: ....
Join Date: Oct 2015 Motorcycle(s): Kawasaki 636 Posts: 66
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All I know is my boy Dave is out taken photos from the morning meeting until the end of the day always
http://noiselessproductions.zenfolio.com/ |
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June 16th, 2016, 06:36 AM | #7 |
Vintage Screwball
Name: B
Location: Washington
Join Date: Feb 2016 Motorcycle(s): 2011 Ninja 250, 2008 Ninja 250, 2019 KTM 1290SDR, 2017 FZ10 Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Mar '16
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Sorry you had a crappy experience with them. The guy that does our race photos is there before the racers and is one of the last to leave!
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Goin' fast on slow bikes! |
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June 16th, 2016, 06:44 AM | #8 | |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
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Quote:
The light is going to be the best early and late in the day. Mid-day it's ugly. When I was shooting races I wouldn't even bother shooting around noontime unless it was heavily overcast, then it was fine. That was back in the day of manual-focus cameras and slide film. I was also shooting Black and White film (anyone remember that?) at times, and that gave you more time to shoot if the light wasn't great because you could easily adjust the contrast. I've got a couple B&W shots from back-in-the-day (Kenny Roberts Jr on the left, Aussie Robbie Peterson on the right, signed drawing of KR's OW-35K in the middle) in my office. |
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June 17th, 2016, 06:12 AM | #9 |
ninjette.org guru
Name: Al
Location: Orange County, CA
Join Date: Dec 2015 Motorcycle(s): Thruxton R, R6 450 triple, EX300 (sold) Posts: 263
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Like the others have said, it really is dependent on the photographer. Part of it is also dependent on the riders, but that is kind of a chicken and egg conundrum. If the riders don't buy pictures a lot, then the photographer can't recoup their costs for things like an assistant, displays, etc.
For the smaller operations, they may feel like they really need the afternoon to process for on-site sales or else they won't make any money. In concept, I definitely agree with you that photographers should be shooting the afternoon sessions. You can always try riding with different trackday groups and seeing who has the best photographers. |
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June 18th, 2016, 05:37 AM | #10 |
Cat herder
Name: Gort
Location: A secret lair which, being secret, has an undisclosed location
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MOTM - Jul '18, Nov '16, Aug '14, May '13
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It is, in part, economics. A lot of riders skip the last session of the day, and many skip the last two. Not everyone buys photos to begin with. So the return on the photog's time and hard work is lower.
Fatigue.... I've flagged a couple of days, and it is a LONG and tiring day. Riders get to have a nice 40-45 minute break out of every hour. Not the photographer. Has to stand out in the sun, lug gear to different locations, and focus on taking thousands of good shots... all day long. Then there's the time thing. Tracks want people GONE asap after the last session wraps up. The photog has to get back, pack up and vacate no later than the riders. Yet the riders in the last session are back while the photog is still out there. For someone who doesn't set up all the computers in the garage, this is less of a deal, but likely still a factor. I agree with you, though, on the first session. Total waste of time.
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I am NOT an adrenaline junkie, I'm a skill junkie. - csmith12 Nam et ipsa scientia potestas est. Heri historia. Cras mysterium. Hodie donum est. Carpe diem. |
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June 18th, 2016, 08:07 AM | #11 | |
Track Clown
Name: Chris
Location: Kingman, AZ
Join Date: May 2012 Motorcycle(s): '08 250R, 21 MV F3 800, Kawasaki 400 build Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Sep '15
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Quote:
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June 18th, 2016, 11:11 AM | #12 |
The Violet Vixen
Name: Yakaru
Location: Issaquah, WA & Las Vegas, NV
Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): Perigee (250), Hotaru (250), Saturn (300), Pearl (300), Zero (S1000RR), Chibi (Z125), Xellos ('18 HP4R) Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '16
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Haha, apparently my experience hasn't been as universal as everyone else's. I'll see about talking to the photographers at my track days and school sessions to see if there's anything we can do.
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June 18th, 2016, 11:33 AM | #13 |
n00bie to wannabie
Name: Bill
Location: St Ives, BC (Shuswap Lake)
Join Date: Sep 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2012 250R (Red), 2005 VFR800A (Red), CRF450X (Red), 2012 F800GS (Wants to be Red!) Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Nov '15
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I have yet to meet a photog that won't accept an exclusive commission for whatever you want!
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The Smart Money: #1 - ATGATT, #2 - Training (machine skills and survival skills), #3 - The bike; whatever floats yer boat with the money you have left over |
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June 18th, 2016, 12:26 PM | #14 |
Vintage Screwball
Name: B
Location: Washington
Join Date: Feb 2016 Motorcycle(s): 2011 Ninja 250, 2008 Ninja 250, 2019 KTM 1290SDR, 2017 FZ10 Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Mar '16
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I bought a season package from mine. Minimum 30 pics per weekend, full race season, $250 (or 300), can't quite remember. Helluva deal!
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Goin' fast on slow bikes! |
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June 18th, 2016, 01:06 PM | #15 |
n00bie to wannabie
Name: Bill
Location: St Ives, BC (Shuswap Lake)
Join Date: Sep 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2012 250R (Red), 2005 VFR800A (Red), CRF450X (Red), 2012 F800GS (Wants to be Red!) Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Nov '15
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I found there was a difference in the pictures from start of season to end of season and year to year. I have hundreds of pictures and spent many hundreds on pictures!) that are virtually identical day to day and track day to track day! The great (and improved!) photos come when you improve! Not missed because the photographer missed the last session or two!
And nothing improves your photos like forgetting the photographer is there! Target fixation!
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The Smart Money: #1 - ATGATT, #2 - Training (machine skills and survival skills), #3 - The bike; whatever floats yer boat with the money you have left over |
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June 18th, 2016, 02:38 PM | #16 | |
The Violet Vixen
Name: Yakaru
Location: Issaquah, WA & Las Vegas, NV
Join Date: Jun 2012 Motorcycle(s): Perigee (250), Hotaru (250), Saturn (300), Pearl (300), Zero (S1000RR), Chibi (Z125), Xellos ('18 HP4R) Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '16
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Quote:
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1 out of 1 members found this post helpful. |
June 18th, 2016, 02:55 PM | #17 | |
n00bie to wannabie
Name: Bill
Location: St Ives, BC (Shuswap Lake)
Join Date: Sep 2015 Motorcycle(s): 2012 250R (Red), 2005 VFR800A (Red), CRF450X (Red), 2012 F800GS (Wants to be Red!) Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Nov '15
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Quote:
And make no mistake: I have almost every picture ever snapped of me on a motorcycle so there's no critique in my comments!!!
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The Smart Money: #1 - ATGATT, #2 - Training (machine skills and survival skills), #3 - The bike; whatever floats yer boat with the money you have left over |
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June 19th, 2016, 07:52 PM | #18 |
Board Member
Name: ...
Location: WI
Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): 250R (street), 250R (dirt) Posts: A lot.
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June 19th, 2016, 08:38 PM | #19 |
ninjette.org certified postwhore
Name: Ryan
Location: Beaufort SC
Join Date: Aug 2015 Motorcycle(s): 05 Ninja 250, 04 KTM 625 SMC, 01 Xc250 Posts: A lot.
Blog Entries: 3
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At a local (MX) track the photographer will only shoot the first little bit, they start riding. I normally haven't even warmed up by the time he starts shooting.
My friend sometimes takes photos during his break, but he's not a pro photographer, and most of his shots don't quite have the best timing. I have an example of when I was in second chasing down another friend (railed the hell out of the corner, but its an ok shot because its the exit of the corner, I already put my foot on the peg, started meaning the bike back up, twisted the throttle on, and am preparing for the double).
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June 20th, 2016, 06:37 AM | #20 |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
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June 20th, 2016, 06:58 AM | #21 |
Board Member
Name: ...
Location: WI
Join Date: Dec 2011 Motorcycle(s): 250R (street), 250R (dirt) Posts: A lot.
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June 20th, 2016, 07:03 AM | #22 |
Rev Limiter
Name: Jay
Location: WI
Join Date: Jul 2013 Motorcycle(s): '06 SV650n, '00 Derbi GPR, '64 CA77 Dream 305, '70 CL450 Scrambler, numerous dirt bikes Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Jun '18, Oct '16
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I own this business - www.apexcustomcoating.com, but I worked as a professional magazine photographer at one point (that's why I chimed-in about track photographers).
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June 20th, 2016, 10:47 AM | #23 |
Certifiable nontundrum
Name: Harper
Location: NC Milkshake stand
Join Date: Mar 2013 Motorcycle(s): 2013 SE NINJA 300 Posts: Too much.
MOTM - Sep '13, Sep '16
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Sweet office!!!
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