[roadracingworld.com] - Report: Ducati Is For Sale And Harley-Davidson Is A Potential

[Ninjette Newsbot]

Italian motorcycle manufacturer Ducati is being put up for sale, and American motorcycle manufacturer Harley-Davidson is a potential buyer, according to a report published today by Reuters (

[adouglas]

Didn't Harley already try this... twice? With Buell and MV Agusta. Guys, stick with what you know. Your core audience doesn't give a crap about Italian bikes. Or Italians, for that matter. Or anything that doesn't scream Amurricuh.

About the only thing Ducati and HD have in common is that they're bands built on passion. But it's not the same passion. Does anyone really think HD management understands how vital Ducati's investment in MotoGP is to the brand? Or how it's the very quirkiness of Ducs that's at the heart of their appeal? Or the Ducati audience, which is VERY different from the all-American heartland HD rider?

Every time HD tries a stunt like this, the result is crappy, misguided products (remember the Buell Blast?), failure to invest wisely to make the brand take off (MV), or both.

[DannoXYZ]

Don't get it... why would Ducati sell? Why not approach an Italian group... bizarre.

[Brother Michigan]

Originally Posted by JacRyann

Don't get it... why would Ducati sell? Why not approach an Italian group... bizarre.

Ducati isn't selling, Volkswagen is. Ducati is on the chopping block largely due to costs associated with the diesel emissions cheating issue.

[Zaph42]

Well crap. Harley counts as my most hated maker and it will be a sad day to see a respectable brand like Ducati bought out.

I guarantee Ducati loses sales from this.

[DannoXYZ]

Originally Posted by Brother Michigan

Ducati isn't selling, Volkswagen is. Ducati is on the chopping block largely due to costs associated with the diesel emissions cheating issue.

Thanks, I should've read article!

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by adouglas

Didn't Harley already try this... twice? With Buell and MV Agusta. Guys, stick with what you know. Your core audience doesn't give a crap about Italian bikes. Or Italians, for that matter. Or anything that doesn't scream Amurricuh.

About the only thing Ducati and HD have in common is that they're bands built on passion. But it's not the same passion. Does anyone really think HD management understands how vital Ducati's investment in MotoGP is to the brand? Or how it's the very quirkiness of Ducs that's at the heart of their appeal? Or the Ducati audience, which is VERY different from the all-American heartland HD rider?

Every time HD tries a stunt like this, the result is crappy, misguided products (remember the Buell Blast?), failure to invest wisely to make the brand take off (MV), or both.

Harley is a bike you WEAR, Ducati is a bike you RIDE. Oil and water and the golf club swingin' CEO doesn't get it. If Harley didn't have that "lumpy" exhaust note they would have gone the way of Indian - and almost did.

Bill

[Brother Michigan]

I feel like the people that throw the most shade at Harley are the ones with the least experience with them. I don't particularly like most of Harley's bikes or even a number of "Harley people," but that doesn't mean they aren't good machines.

Harley is just an example of good marketing and product development; they know what their audience wants and they give it to them. Trying to claim they killed EBR, etc. is just sour grapes. Half the problem with the Harley Buells was that people ignored them simply because of the association with Harley, and it's not like EBR was particularly successful when they came back on their own. The bikes were great machines (with the small exception of the Blast), they just had an unfortunate image because people are Harley-haters.

[CC Cowboy]

A lot of hate speech in here. I'm going to my safe space!

[DEFY]

It is not really about category of bike, there are plenty of dealers that do both sport and cruiser and have no issue tailoring to the bread of the customer. The main issue is the two brands have tailored themselves to selling the best of the category they represent and really opting toward those customers. To take those two different representations and ask one to represent both is going to be hard. They could do it if they can opt to cut their showrooms in half and really sell both equally. However, that is where they will fail and Harley has done that twice already.

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by DEFY

It is not really about category of bike, there are plenty of dealers that do both sport and cruiser and have no issue tailoring to the bread of the customer. The main issue is the two brands have tailored themselves to selling the best of the category they represent and really opting toward those customers. To take those two different representations and ask one to represent both is going to be hard. They could do it if they can opt to cut their showrooms in half and really sell both equally. However, that is where they will fail and Harley has done that twice already.

I'm still pissed after all these years. Arrogant Harley (Hardley) riders in the 70s used to tease me about riding a "rice burner" or a "ring ding". Putting that aside my rational mind looks at a company employing American workers, raising American families, paying American mortgages and contributing to the American gross national product. I wish them the best but don't bother mailing me any sales brochures.

Bill

[Ralgha]

Ideally Harley would keep Ducati completely separate and nobody would even know that Harley owned Ducati. There are plenty of companies that are already run like that

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by Ralgha

Ideally Harley would keep Ducati completely separate and nobody would even know that Harley owned Ducati. There are plenty of companies that are already run like that

Like Ford and Jaguar? Could work as long as the parent company just plays with the financial books and not product development.

Bill

[Alex]

I certainly agree that there could be some pretty obvious challenges with this working out. But the companies do have some similarities. Devoted customers, extremely strong and differentiated brand, US is the largest market for both, bunch of money spent on high-end dealerships, clothing/accessories/branding a surprising part of the revenue stream.

It could turn out to be a complete cluster. But if Ducati goes back independent and then gets the US market wrong, the global company is kaput without Audi's money.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by Ralgha

Ideally Harley would keep Ducati completely separate and nobody would even know that Harley owned Ducati. There are plenty of companies that are already run like that

Right. There's a difference between corporate ownership and consumer-facing brand.

(Full disclosure: I work for a branding firm so this stuff is directly in line with what I do for a living.)

HD did that with MV. There's no hint anywhere in the brand that MV was owned by Harley.

HD did not do that with Buell. They tried to do a kind of mashup on both the product and dealer side, and it just didn't work. I think it's because HD was playing the patriot card and thinking that Americans would come to them because the US was finally building something that could compete with the Japanese. They failed to understand the target market.

But there's more to this than simply keeping the consumer-facing brands separate. The home office signs the checks and has ultimate say on brand strategy. This is where I think they're going to screw the pooch, becuase HD still doesn't understand the premium import buyer. The HD mindset is too focused on the unique American market (and face it... we're really strange compared to everywhere else on the planet).

Ducati's core brand attributes, to me, are:
- Premium experience and exclusivity. The Ducatisti are a tribe.
- Performance first, followed by style. Reliability and comfort are pretty far down the list. Value for the money isn't even on the radar.
- Sex with a very European flavor to it.
- Appealing strangeness that inspires passion (NOBODY does things the way Ducati does them)

Think for a minute about the HD mindset as expressed by its brand:
- Blue collar, rust belt
- Nationalistic to the point of jingoism. America First.
- Pugnacious and traditional, with a grip on tradition so tight it leaves fingerprints in the chrome.
- Iconoclastic to the core

The HD brand is practically self-sustaining. It doesn't require huge ongoing investment because it's embedded into the American psyche every bit as deeply as the NFL, Budweiser and Chevrolet. Sure they spend to build the brand... but it's a drop in the bucket by comparison.

Supporting and growing a brand like Ducati, on the other hand, is a different matter. Duc corrals at races. Factory race teams that probably have eight-figure budgets, maybe approaching nine figures at the MotoGP level. Outrageous marketing efforts. These expenditures are not optional for that brand to thrive, but they don't make sense to bean counters. Based on the lack of investment in the MV brand by Harley, I don't think that the head honchos understand that.

Imagine what might have been, had HD put the kind of backing into MV that Ducati has.

[Zaph42]

Originally Posted by Brother Michigan

I feel like the people that throw the most shade at Harley are the ones with the least experience with them.

I rode a BRAND NEW Ultra Classic touring bike. On a smooth highway it started a head shake all by itself. The Death Wobble is real. I've ridden some Harleys that handle so poorly that I can barely make a U turn in the road. But I had to, so I could get off that crap and give the bike back to it's owner.

The point is, most of us have SOME experience with Harley bikes, but then after that we go out of our way to avoid MORE experience with Harley bikes. And don't get me started about the riders.

Even If Harley buys Ducati and makes no changes, they have still doomed them by association. I bet key Ducati management leaves the company soon after they are purchased. Simply put, Harley doesn't know how to make a good motorcycle and they have no business overseeing a company that does.

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by Zaph42

I rode a BRAND NEW Ultra Classic touring bike. On a smooth highway it started a head shake all by itself. The Death Wobble is real. I've ridden some Harleys that handle so poorly that I can barely make a U turn in the road. But I had to, so I could get off that crap and give the bike back to it's owner.

The point is, most of us have SOME experience with Harley bikes, but then after that we go out of our way to avoid MORE experience with Harley bikes. And don't get me started about the riders.

Even If Harley buys Ducati and makes no changes, they have still doomed them by association. I bet key Ducati management leaves the company soon after they are purchased. Simply put, Harley doesn't know how to make a good motorcycle and they have no business overseeing a company that does.

Amen John.

[Ducati999]

The MFG of the lightest production bikes sold to the MFG of the heaviest bikes sold. Ducati usually introduces the latest and greatest technology to the market first and Harley is still basically building the same bike they made in the 50's. Not that there is anything wrong with the old tech but like stated above "oil and water". I cant possibly see how Ducati could thrive under the leadership of Harley, The Americans know their market and make products for their followers but Ducati is nearly the polar opposite. Damn! just when Ducati started winning GP races!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Guess I will sell all my Titanium and carbon fiber and invest in chrome.



I had to double check the date because I was hoping this was an April Fools joke

[adouglas]

Oh, wait, I almost forgot.

There IS something Harleys and Ducs have in common.

They both sound like farm tractors at idle.....

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by Ducati999

The MFG of the lightest production bikes sold to the MFG of the heaviest bikes sold. Ducati usually introduces the latest and greatest technology to the market first and Harley is still basically building the same bike they made in the 50's. Not that there is anything wrong with the old tech but like stated above "oil and water". I cant possibly see how Ducati could thrive under the leadership of Harley, The Americans know their market and make products for their followers but Ducati is nearly the polar opposite. Damn! just when Ducati started winning GP races!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Guess I will sell all my Titanium and carbon fiber and invest in chrome.



I had to double check the date because I was hoping this was an April Fools joke

It's like "Cycle" magazine said about Norton in the 70s "You can buy a brand new 1937 motorcycle". But Harley buyers don't really want any changes. Rembember, they wear their Harleys they didn't buy them to ride.

Bill

[Snake]

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

A lot of hate speech in here. I'm going to my safe space!

Please tell us how you really feel about the potential sale of Ducati to Harley. I'm very interested to hear your thoughts.

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by Ninjette Newsbot

Italian motorcycle manufacturer Ducati is being put up for sale, and American motorcycle manufacturer Harley-Davidson is a potential buyer, according to a report published today by Reuters (

A good read:http://www.bikebandit.com/blog/post/...-to-buy-ducati

Bill