[motorcycle.com] - Harley-Davidson Q4 and 2017 Results: Not So Hot

[Ninjette Newsbot]

The world’s largest maker of heavyweight motorcycles continues to struggle. Net income fell 82% in its fiscal fourth quarter to $8.3 million, compared with a year earlier. Earnings per share were 5 cents, down from 27 cents a year earlier. Revenue, however, was up: $1.23 billion from $1.11 billion last year.

It appears that a big part of the earnings drop is the 91% effective tax rate associated with President Trump’s tax cut, along with *a $29.4 million*charge for a voluntary product recall.

Click on the link below to see H-D’s whole 30-page presentation.

Harley-Q4 2017 Quarterly Slides

Furthermore, this morning’s USA Today reports that part of H-D’s consolidation plan will result in closure of H-D’s Kansas City manufacturing plant, along with the loss of 800 jobs.



It’s not exactly a rosy picture for the Motor Company, but it’s seen much worse; see 2009-2010 in the above chart. Limp sales over the past few years have encouraged the introduction of a slew of new models and rider initiatives for 2018, and the slide presentation claims there are 32,000 more H-D riders in the U.S. than there were a year ago. Plant consolidation, lower taxes, and increasing overseas sales are expected to boost the bottom line going forward. And H-D even says it plans to “invest more aggressively in electric motorcycle technology.”

HOG stock was down nearly 9% on the news (on a bad day for Wall Street in general). But we wouldn’t count H-D out anytime soon.*It’s not over till the Fat Bob sings.



Harley-Davidson Q4 and 2017 Results: Not So Hot appeared first on Motorcycle.com.



Click here for full story...

[taz]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...130-story.html

[Zaph42]

If only Harley had taken a different marketing route in 1963.



Because still today, you don't meet the nicest people on a Harley, and that's why nobody wants to buy them.

[taz]

just wish this was the same story for the 1911 platform. old tech outdated and never innovated.

[Triple Jim]

According to Harley-Davidson, the effective tax rate for 2017 was 39.6%.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...300589869.html

[DannoXYZ]

Yeah, management completely missing the mark. Marketing to old dying audience isn’t going to help bottom line. Any of those that want Harley probably already has one.

They need to target and market to younger new market. And foreign too as that’s where majority of bikes are sold.

[Zaph42]

Most of the old Harley crowd doesn't even ride anymore. That's why, more than ever craigslist is overcrowded with used Harleys that aren't selling. I've been been combing craigslist for bikes ever since craigslist was a thing. There are Harleys there that have been posted 5 years or more.

It's not looking good for Harley. I give them 10 years and they will be gone (or at least 10% of their current size, unless they make a drastic change. They need to be more like Triumph and come out with some standards that actually ride well and perform well. They need to lose the Stigma and the bad guy image that was pushed hard in the 70's.

[VaFish]

Originally Posted by JacRyann

Yeah, management completely missing the mark. Marketing to old dying audience isn’t going to help bottom line. Any of those that want Harley probably already has one.

They need to target and market to younger new market. And foreign too as that’s where majority of bikes are sold.

That's the whole point of the Street 500, 750 and Street Rod.

Whether that's enough and if the dealerships will actually try to sell them and not stuff them in the back corner like they did with the Buell and V-Rod we will have to wait and see.

My problem with Harley (and I ride one) is that their new bikes are just too stinking expensive. I can buy a brand new leftover Kawasaki Vaquero 2016 model for $11,000. A comparable 2017 Street Glide or Road Glide is $23,000

Tough to justify the Harley name at those prices.

[VaFish]

Originally Posted by Zaph42

If only Harley had taken a different marketing route in 1963.



Because still today, you don't meet the nicest people on a Harley, and that's why nobody wants to buy them.

I don't know where you ride, but I met very nice people on Harley's when my daughter and I were riding our Ninja 250's. Not once did a Harley rider speak derogatively, well I had one Harley ask me when I was going to get a bigger bike, but he was smiling when he said it.

[taz]

Originally Posted by VaFish

I don't know where you ride, but I met very nice people on Harley's when my daughter and I were riding our Ninja 250's. Not once did a Harley rider speak derogatively, well I had one Harley ask me when I was going to get a bigger bike, but he was smiling when he said it.

WELL YOU GOT ALMOST ALL THE NICE ONES IN YOUR AREA THEN , THERE IN GENERAL LOUD obnoxious AND IGNORANT. THERE ARE A FEW NICE ONES BUT NOT MANY THAT I HAVE FOUND

[Zaph42]

Originally Posted by VaFish

I don't know where you ride, but I met very nice people on Harley's when my daughter and I were riding our Ninja 250's. Not once did a Harley rider speak derogatively, well I had one Harley ask me when I was going to get a bigger bike, but he was smiling when he said it.

I don't have enough fingers and toes to count the times a Harley rider gave me the finger when I pass him going the other way. And for the record, this is when I'm with my fully ATGATT riding group, riding in staggered formation at the speed limit.

And sometimes rather than the finger, I get the hole. They make a circle with finger and thumb then hold it low. Presumably, that's where my dick goes.

Today's respectable riders have grown to hate Harley riders, and the bikes they ride on. That's why Harley is going away, and there's nothing the company can do about it. Harley heritage is garbage, and that's really their only selling point.

Maybe sometime I'll let you guys know how I really feel about it, hahah.

[DannoXYZ]

I used to train for bicycle races by riding from Santa Barbara down to Ventura and come back around Lake Casitas. Lost count, but it had to be at least 50% or more of the time around Lake, some Harley rider would speed up behind me and buzz me as close as possible at full-throttle; I could feel wind as they passed. Got to point where I was thinking about tossing handful of rusty nuts and bolts into air next to me as they came up.

Right around that time, SB County passed law that vehicles had to give cyclists 3-foot margin on rural single-lane roads. A triathlete girl had gotten hooked by passing truck and dragged under. I got GoPro and handed over footage to county sheriff’s office. After about 5 of these videos, the buzzings mysteriously stopped... hmmm...

[kdogg2077]

I'm curious if Harley has anyone under the age of 60 making decisions about the bikes they develop. I kinda doubt it.

They need to rip off the Ducati Scrambler ASAP. Even just a universal japanese bike aka standard bike or whatever. No more cruisers or street 500 aka watered down cruiser. They need to do something DIFFERENT than their usual, for a reasonable price. I'm not paying 10,000 for 1940's tech just because it was made in the USA. That's taking advantage of people's patriotism.

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by JacRyann

Yeah, management completely missing the mark. Marketing to old dying audience isn’t going to help bottom line. Any of those that want Harley probably already has one.

They need to target and market to younger new market. And foreign too as that’s where majority of bikes are sold.

Erik Buell sure tried to help but the new C.E.O. is not a biker at heart and given a choice would rather ride a golf cart. Harley deserves to go "belly up" but the employees don't. My friend and Harley owner calls them Hardley Davidson.

Bill

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by kdogg2077

I'm curious if Harley has anyone under the age of 60 making decisions about the bikes they develop. I kinda doubt it.

They need to rip off the Ducati Scrambler ASAP. Even just a universal japanese bike aka standard bike or whatever. No more cruisers or street 500 aka watered down cruiser. They need to do something DIFFERENT than their usual, for a reasonable price. I'm not paying 10,000 for 1940's tech just because it was made in the USA. That's taking advantage of people's patriotism.

You do American industry a favor by buying the best product regardless of where it's made. Detroit has come a long way but not because they are driven by customer satisfaction, but by the bottom line and unit manufacturing cost. The end result is that they make a better car because they had to. Thank you Honda, Nisson, Toyota et al.

Bill

[VaFish]

Originally Posted by Zaph42

I don't have enough fingers and toes to count the times a Harley rider gave me the finger when I pass him going the other way. And for the record, this is when I'm with my fully ATGATT riding group, riding in staggered formation at the speed limit.

And sometimes rather than the finger, I get the hole. They make a circle with finger and thumb then hold it low. Presumably, that's where my dick goes.

Today's respectable riders have grown to hate Harley riders, and the bikes they ride on. That's why Harley is going away, and there's nothing the company can do about it. Harley heritage is garbage, and that's really their only selling point.

Maybe sometime I'll let you guys know how I really feel about it, hahah.

Wow things must be different in Wisconsin. I thought East Coast people were supposed to be A holes and the mid-westerners were the nice people.

When my daughter and I were first riding our Ninja 250's we had a HOG chapter come up behind us. They followed us down Skyline drive. Stopped and the same overlook we did and had a nice conversation.

Never had a Harley rider flip me off when I'm on a sport bike. I see more idiots on sport bikes weaving in and out of traffic, riding wheelies down the interstate, ect....

[CaliGrrl]

The worst I've had from a HD rider was being ignored, when other riders generally will wave. No biggie. Couple of my friends ride HDs.

But it's true that they don't make any bike I want to buy. I feel a little bad about that, buy American and all, but it's true.

[Zaph42]

I can't make a broad generalization about all Harley riders. Of course there are some good guys.

I still wave at some Harley riders but only specific ones. And here is exactly how that demographic is split up: The HD riders wearing helmets are the good ones. The HD riders without helmets are questionable. The HD riders with ape hangers are 100% dickheads. And that's not a generalization, that's guaranteed! I only wave at HD riders with helmets on.

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by Zaph42

I can't make a broad generalization about all Harley riders. Of course there are some good guys.

I still wave at some Harley riders but only specific ones. And here is exactly how that demographic is split up: The HD riders wearing helmets are the good ones. The HD riders without helmets are questionable. The HD riders with ape hangers are 100% dickheads. And that's not a generalization, that's guaranteed! I only wave at HD riders with helmets on.

That makes you a doo-rag-o-phobe.

Bill

[Zaph42]

Originally Posted by Ram Jet

That makes you a doo-rag-o-phobe.

Bill

I think I'm more afraid of bug infested armpit hair.

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by Zaph42

I think I'm more afraid of bug infested armpit hair.

I can hear him calling Galfer USA to order a 48" braided steel brake line. "Sir, do you mean 48cm? Does he stand on the seat to ride? With that chest hair he doesn't need protective clothing.

Bill

[Cafe Racer]

Haters will hate.
I ride a Fatboy and a bunch of Hondas and now a ninja.
Plus I wave to everyone.

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by Cafe Racer

Haters will hate.
I ride a Fatboy and a bunch of Hondas and now a ninja.
Plus I wave to everyone.

Uh oh C.R., you got some splainin' to do ridin' dem Rice Burners! Thanks for waiving, I was developing a complex.

Bill

[Zaph42]

Originally Posted by Cafe Racer

Haters will hate.
I ride a Fatboy and a bunch of Hondas and now a ninja.
Plus I wave to everyone.

Do you wear a helmet when you ride on that Harley? I'm thinking you do. I'll be sure to wave to you also.

ps. I wave to scooter riders too - but only if they have helmets on.

[Cafe Racer]

I always wear a helmet. In New Jersey you have to. In Florida some idiots do not.
Bottom line is it be up to the rider, but I always wear a helmet and eye protection.

Thinking about Harley's future.
First many motorcycle riders can not afford to buy a new Harley.
Let's face it a new Fatboy with the 114CI engine is over $20,000.00 dollars.
That leaves out most guys under 40. Forget about the 18-30 yea roles still living with mom and dad.
My next door neighbor has a stable full of Ducati's including an $80,000.00 1199. He also has a Ronin. Those bikes are for short trips. He has a BMW for trips.
I can cruise for couple of hours at 80mph on the Fatboy.

Next time you think Harley is going out of business go to Bike Week or any big mc rally. 95% Harley.

Have fun

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by Cafe Racer

I always wear a helmet. In New Jersey you have to. In Florida some idiots do not.
Bottom line is it be up to the rider, but I always wear a helmet and eye protection.

Thinking about Harley's future.
First many motorcycle riders can not afford to buy a new Harley.
Let's face it a new Fatboy with the 114CI engine is over $20,000.00 dollars.
That leaves out most guys under 40. Forget about the 18-30 yea roles still living with mom and dad.
My next door neighbor has a stable full of Ducati's including an $80,000.00 1199. He also has a Ronin. Those bikes are for short trips. He has a BMW for trips.
I can cruise for couple of hours at 80mph on the Fatboy.

Next time you think Harley is going out of business go to Bike Week or any big mc rally. 95% Harley.

Have fun

And 10 years from now when all the Harley owners either croak or reside in a nursing home it'll be 20% Harley.

Bill

[VaFish]

Originally Posted by Zaph42

Do you wear a helmet when you ride on that Harley? I'm thinking you do. I'll be sure to wave to you also.

ps. I wave to scooter riders too - but only if they have helmets on.

I wear a full face helmet and usually a synthetic jacket when I ride my Harley. Here in VA we have helmet laws. Maybe it's the sunburn on their heads that makes them A-Holes in Wisconson?

I wave to scooter riders too.

[Zaph42]

Yeah actually I think it is different in Wisconsin. No helmet laws here, and I notice a distinct personality difference between HD riders that wear helmets and those that wear bandanas or nothing.

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by Zaph42

Yeah actually I think it is different in Wisconsin. No helmet laws here, and I notice a distinct personality difference between HD riders that wear helmets and those that wear bandanas or nothing.

I went to the internet to verify that Harley is headquartered in Milwaukee. Then I noticed on their website that you can rent a Harley. Heck, why not, I've never ridden a Harley. I would do it but I have to drive to London, Canada or Milwaukee. I don't want to ride one that bad. Unless they deliver like Enterprise car rental.

Bill

[jrshooter]

Originally Posted by taz

just wish this was the same story for the 1911 platform. old tech outdated and never innovated.

oh boy the 1911 still dominates the pistol competitions. this is because the very hand of GOD was with John moses browning.

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by jrshooter

oh boy the 1911 still dominates the pistol competitions. this is because the very hand of GOD was with John moses browning.

Then John Garand was at least his index finger.

Bill

[Cafe Racer]

Dude I am 70 and I ride everyday. I got my first Harley at 66.
The are plenty of 50 somethings who will buy a Harley. Because they want one and can afford the price.
Harley has little interest in building a bike for less then $10 Grand. So you youngsters can't afford one. Stop hating and save your money because you know you really want a big loud Harley.

Oh by the way in ten years I will still be riding, and maybe you will own a Harley

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by Cafe Racer

Dude I am 70 and I ride everyday. I got my first Harley at 66.
The are plenty of 50 somethings who will buy a Harley. Because they want one and can afford the price.
Harley has little interest in building a bike for less then $10 Grand. So you youngsters can't afford one. Stop hating and save your money because you know you really want a big loud Harley.

Oh by the way in ten years I will still be riding, and maybe you will own a Harley

I know you were just making a point but you don't ride everyday in New Jersey. In New Jersey the dorks can't even handle rain let alone snow. Speaking as a 12 year former resident of Flanders.

By the way, I'll be 70 in June and I'm saving my money for a Ducati.

Bill

[VaFish]

Originally Posted by Ram Jet

I went to the internet to verify that Harley is headquartered in Milwaukee. Then I noticed on their website that you can rent a Harley. Heck, why not, I've never ridden a Harley. I would do it but I have to drive to London, Canada or Milwaukee. I don't want to ride one that bad. Unless they deliver like Enterprise car rental.

Bill

If you want to ride a Harley just go to a Harley dealership. They give test/demo rides. And many of the Harley dealerships have rental programs through Eagle Rider.

http://www.eaglerider.com/

Although surprisingly it doesn't look like there are any in the mitten.

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by VaFish

If you want to ride a Harley just go to a Harley dealership. They give test/demo rides. And many of the Harley dealerships have rental programs through Eagle Rider.

http://www.eaglerider.com/

Although surprisingly it doesn't look like there are any in the mitten.

I'm surprised there aren't any rentals here (East Central Michigan) I've never seen more Harley Davidsons in my life than here. They are as common as flies on do do. Sorry Nancy Pelosi - no cherry on top. If I did cop a ride at a dealer I would have to be upfront and tell him I'm not in the market.

Bill

[Cafe Racer]

Like I said I ride almost every day. Headed out on the Fatboy in a few minutes, 70 and sunny.
I spend my winters in St Augustine Florida.
We say good by to the waterfront home in NewJersey the week after Thanksgiving and do not come back until May.
I quite running my own business a few years ago and am enjoying the good life. I raced bikes until the kids came along. Then got back into bikes.
I just picked up a little ninja. It is stripped to the frame for wheels up resto using Bluecollorbobbers Cafe Kit.
I seem to have a need to drag my knees again.

[DannoXYZ]

Originally Posted by Cafe Racer

I just picked up a little ninja. It is stripped to the frame for wheels up resto using Bluecollorbobbers Cafe Kit.
I seem to have a need to drag my knees again.

The need for adrenaline-rush never goes away!

[VaFish]

Originally Posted by Ram Jet

I'm surprised there aren't any rentals here (East Central Michigan) I've never seen more Harley Davidsons in my life than here. They are as common as flies on do do. Sorry Nancy Pelosi - no cherry on top. If I did cop a ride at a dealer I would have to be upfront and tell him I'm not in the market.

Bill

Ride up on your sport bike, wander around a little, tell the salesman up front you really aren't in the market, but you want to take one for a ride to see what all the hype is about. I'd say about 99% chance they let you ride one. If not a brand new one, they'll have a bunch of used ones on the lot.

If you roll up on a Ninja 250 they may not be inclined to let you ride a brand new 900lb Street Glide Ultra until they've seen you handle a smaller bike like a Sportster, Soft Tail or Dyna first.

[Ram Jet]

Originally Posted by VaFish

Ride up on your sport bike, wander around a little, tell the salesman up front you really aren't in the market, but you want to take one for a ride to see what all the hype is about. I'd say about 99% chance they let you ride one. If not a brand new one, they'll have a bunch of used ones on the lot.

If you roll up on a Ninja 250 they may not be inclined to let you ride a brand new 900lb Street Glide Ultra until they've seen you handle a smaller bike like a Sportster, Soft Tail or Dyna first.

Hey maybe I'll try it. Riding a Ninja should tell them a Harley is out of my price range. I'd be happy with a 1975 Sportster. Heck I'd even bring it back with a full tank of gas. I'll let you know - when it warms up.

Bill

[Cafe Racer]

Harley and Indian have dealer demo days usually in the fall up north. They are just starting them around here (FL). Google Harley demo days for more info.q
There is always Bike Week in Daytona in mid-March. Neither Harley or Indian seem to care about your experience. You need your motorcycle endorsement on your drivers license. They even have helmets. Many states require eye protection. But that is about it. You fill out some forms all on little iPad like things and go pick you bike. They have a little safety meeting and your off.
Daytona for Harley is a different game. You get this little black credit card thing when you sign up at a dealer demo ride. Keep the card for future use. You show them that your current drivers license pick your bike and " just follow the orange cones". No safety riders, no safety BS, just ride it like you stole it.
Indian was a bit of a pain. You had to listen to everything about every model no matter what you were riding. No sling-shoting, no passing, stay in line and on and on. I did enjoy the ride once I got over 40mph. I what back to Harley and over the next couple days I rode every bike. Still like the FatBoy with the 114CI engine. My 2009 Fatboy has a cam, intake and exhaust upgrades and a tuner. It is still faster then the new stock bikes.
By the way most folks seem to get the local dealer demo days by car. I see no discrimation towards any want-a-be rider. If you had a helmet, leathers and gloves no one will batted an eye. Heck my local NJ dealer usually has great deals on used crotch rockets that get traded in on new Hogs. I am surprised by the numbers I see on the lot. I was temped a time or two this past summer.