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Old July 2nd, 2019, 01:07 AM   #1
Irish Ninja
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Wanted - Top box mount for 250R anyone?

I have a 2009 250R and want to add a top box. I cannot source mountings anywhere. I have looked for Givi 4107FZ, SW-Motech etc. etc. I am not fussed about the brand. Anyone know where I might get this? Thanks.
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Old July 2nd, 2019, 11:08 AM   #2
DannoXYZ
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Hi Joe and welcome to Nnjette!

That particular Givi model you mentioned is for Ninja 650 only. You’ll want this one instead.
https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/...-top-case-rack
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Old July 3rd, 2019, 12:14 AM   #3
Irish Ninja
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Hi Joe and welcome to Nnjette!

That particular Givi model you mentioned is for Ninja 650 only. You’ll want this one instead.
https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/...-top-case-rack
The problem is I cannot find any fitting fits in stock anywhere in the world for my 250r.
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Old July 3rd, 2019, 02:16 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Ninja View Post
The problem is I cannot find any fitting fits in stock anywhere in the world for my 250r.
Sorry, that Givi model you quotes does fit N250R, but has been discontinued. Here's rear-rack. Seems like you would be able to attach any top-box you wanted?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/163607793713
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Old July 3rd, 2019, 02:19 AM   #5
Irish Ninja
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Sorry, that Givi model you quotes does fit N250R, but has been discontinued. Here's rear-rack. Seems like you would be able to attach any top-box you wanted?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/163607793713
Cheers, thanks.
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Old August 14th, 2019, 06:22 PM   #6
nocturncal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Sorry, that Givi model you quotes does fit N250R, but has been discontinued. Here's rear-rack. Seems like you would be able to attach any top-box you wanted?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/163607793713

This rear rack works perfectly . Just installed it on my 09 250, very good initial impressions
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Old October 11th, 2019, 01:35 PM   #7
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Just checking in, I've used the renntec for a couple of months now, and it isn't the best rack by any measure.

A couple of the welds broke, and the metal pieces that mount to the bike bent until they were stopped by my motorcycles plastics and rubbed against them, scratching them in the process.

Unfortunately I don't have access to a welder and I need this rack to work, so I jb welded them together with fiberglass wrapped around the joints to try to reinforce the joints. This is my first weekend where I'll test it to see if it'll work.

I don't recommend this rack unless your gonna load <5lbs on it

Edit:
I forgot to add, I added a metal rod where the rack attaches to the bike to help support the bracket and take pressure off of it
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Old October 11th, 2019, 01:47 PM   #8
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Appreciate the update! Sorry about the build quality, and hopefully your fixes sorted it out a bit.
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Old October 11th, 2019, 01:57 PM   #9
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Appreciate the update! Sorry about the build quality, and hopefully your fixes sorted it out a bit.
I hope so too lol. Kinda bummed because this is the only rack I could find for the 250.

Makes me really want to learn how to weld.
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Old October 11th, 2019, 02:44 PM   #10
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Darn, was hoping it would work as I'm looking at one myself. Will probably make my own then.

Is it made from steel or aluminium?

Please post photos of failure points and your repairs & upgrade design.

Thanks!
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Old October 11th, 2019, 11:09 PM   #11
nocturncal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Darn, was hoping it would work as I'm looking at one myself. Will probably make my own then.

Is it made from steel or aluminium?

Please post photos of failure points and your repairs & upgrade design.

Thanks!
Will post photos asap. I believe it's steel, I remember seeing some surface rust where the welds cracked and got scratched. I'll look again tomorrow
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Old October 19th, 2019, 05:41 PM   #12
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@DannoXYZ. Pics below. The rack is made of steel.



The metal pipeing that joins to the brackets broke. They were originally welded and 1/8 inch thick. All that Shmoo on those joints in the above photo are the aftermath of trying to only use JB weld.




Also the triangle piece is thin and is slightly bending.

This time around I initially JB welded the joints with fiberglass reinforcement/extra steel shavings and then bolted the joints down.

Then I JB welded 3/8's thick worth of steel across the entire metal brackets to where they meet the pipe and fastened a couple M8 grade 8 bolts through the joints where they cracked off to keep them from seperating. Then I secured the bolts with a nut on the other side so the bolts will squeeze the joints together. Will be testing it out this weekend to see if it holds up.

The holes for the brackets are I believe originally M6 sizes, I drilled em and enlarged them all to accept a 8mm size.

The joints bolted down:





Thicker steel added to the original joints, covered in JB weld Shmoo and then fastened with m8 bolts:



Also u can see the scratches resulting from the original rack bending and breaking ...

Yess....she's not a beauty by any measure. I didn't clean up any of that solidified JB weld because I didn't want to weaken it. Plus, I just needed something functional. If u have a welder, I suggest going that route and DEFINITELY using something larger than 1/8 steel as used in the original product.

FYI adding thicker steel raised the height of the rear seat and you have to add some spacers to raise the locking mechanism for the seat so that it can lock the seat in place. I just added a 1/4 plates and drilled some holes for the bolts, and mount the locking mechanism on top of that. I got longer bolts for all the rack mounts because the added thickness won't work with the original bolts.

I really wish I had a welder....I was looking at options and I'm limited. I only have 110v power with 20 amp breakers

TL;LR:. Anywhere the rack has a bolt hole I added steel, and I drilled holes where the metal pipe meets the mounting brackets and put for bolts in to keep them from breaking.

Last futzed with by nocturncal; Yesterday at 12:28 AM.
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Old Today, 12:08 AM   #13
DannoXYZ
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Thanks for photos, how did repairs hold up? For even stronger joints, there are epoxies available from West Marine that's twice as strong as JB. I like to add 30-50% steel powder or filings to increase strength further. To point where you can machine, drill and tap it like metals.

This is interesting as I used to build custom racing bicycle frames. Some questions about failures:

- did any of bracket or tubing break? Or was it just weld?
- at break, did most of weld go with bracket?
- or did most of weld go with tubing?
- did any of tubing bend?

I've got some ideas for improving design and repairing failed joints. Would involve brazing like how high-end custom frames are made. Heat-treated alloys made into thin-wall tubes such as Reynolds 853, Hexcel or Columbus Nivacrom don't react well with elevated temperatures of welding, so they are joined with brass brazing or even lower-temp silver-solder using lugs.

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Old Today, 11:59 AM   #14
nocturncal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post

This is interesting as I used to build custom racing bicycle frames. Some questions about failures:

- did any of bracket or tubing break? Or was it just weld?
- at break, did most of weld go with bracket?
- or did most of weld go with tubing?
- did any of tubing bend?
1. Neither bracket or tubing broke. The bracket only bent. It broke at all the welds

2. At the break, all the weld went with the tubing

3. Tubing didn't bend.

I'll check out that marine epoxy. Is it brittle like JB weld? I've found that with JB weld it's strong but the material doesn't have a lot of "stretchability" before it just breaks.
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Old Today, 04:35 PM   #15
DannoXYZ
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All stronger epoxies tend to be hard with fracture type failures. That's OK as force required to break them is 2-3x higher than softer more pliable ones. Adding some irregular fill material such as steel filings or chopped fibreglass greatly improves strength and breaks up 'grain' boundaries, making it more crack resistant.

Design looks OK, I think failure was due to process breakdown. Proper surface-prep was not done on flat bar-stock. Or some bean-countre changes were made after initial design was completed. Such as changing from cold-rolled stock to hot-rolled or galvanized. All of which would require changing surface-prep operation before welding.

I think I'm going make my own rack. Just waiting for my top-box to arrive and will customise rack just for it. You can come over and i'll show you how to braze joints on your rack. Here's Rentec rack for different bike that also failed. Solution was welding reinforcement.

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