Brake light on while in neutral?

[andrewsfm]

Looked at the wiring diagram for a simple way to have the brake light come on whenever the bike is in neutral, but didn't see one.

Anyone see a simple way to do it?

Basically I want it to look like I hit the brakes if the bike accidentally goes into neutral while shifting.

I have no problem splicing into the wiring, I just can't see a simple way right now, cause the neutral switch grounds to activate the circuit, while the brake light sits at neutral until the brakes are applied.

I know it can be done with a relay, but I'm looking to hopefully find a way to not have to use one.

[Felipe the Ant]

Why don't you want to use a relay? It would make things much easier. Add the coil side to the neutral light circuit and connect the switch end to power and the other end to the power side of the light. You'd flash the brake light every time you shift past neutral.

Without a relay I suppose you can splice the power side of the brake light with the power side of the neutral light but both lights will be dimmer and they'll both light up when you shift to neutral or use the brakes

[alex.s]

... why?

[andrewsfm]

Originally Posted by Felipe the Ant

Why don't you want to use a relay? It would make things much easier. Add the coil side to the neutral light circuit and connect the switch end to power and the other end to the power side of the light. You'd flash the brake light every time you shift past neutral.

Without a relay I suppose you can splice the power side of the brake light with the power side of the neutral light but both lights will be dimmer and they'll both light up when you shift to neutral or use the brakes

Yeah, having them both light up is no good.

Guess I'm going to have to use a relay. I forgot about the fact it'll flash when shifting past neutral, but maybe the mechanical delay of the relay kicking in might prevent that most of the time?

[andrewsfm]

Originally Posted by alex.s

... why?

Because as a newbie, I've accidentally shifted into neutral when pulling away from a light a few too many times, and see that car behind me in my mirror getting a little close thinking I'm accelerating.

Also, if I'm stopped at a light and know it's a long light, I can throw it in neutral, and stretch my hands and keep the brake light on the guy behind me can see I'm not going anywhere yet.

Especially if I'm in the far right lane going straight, and the guy behind me wants to turn right.

[Honko]

Originally Posted by andrewsfm

Because as a newbie, I've accidentally shifted into neutral when pulling away from a light a few too many times, and see that car behind me in my mirror getting a little close thinking I'm accelerating.

You should just go to an empty space for a couple of hours and just practice shifting from 1st to 2nd, back down to first and back up to second until you get the hang of it. If it helps you can lift your foot up to shift and hold it there until you release the clutch completely and then let your foot off.

Originally Posted by andrewsfm

Also, if I'm stopped at a light and know it's a long light, I can throw it in neutral, and stretch my hands and keep the brake light on the guy behind me can see I'm not going anywhere yet.

Especially if I'm in the far right lane going straight, and the guy behind me wants to turn right.

Rear brake

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by andrewsfm

Because as a newbie, I've accidentally shifted into neutral when pulling away from a light a few too many times, and see that car behind me in my mirror getting a little close thinking I'm accelerating.

Also, if I'm stopped at a light and know it's a long light, I can throw it in neutral, and stretch my hands and keep the brake light on the guy behind me can see I'm not going anywhere yet.

Especially if I'm in the far right lane going straight, and the guy behind me wants to turn right.

i would suggest spending the time working on your shifting instead of trying to setup a neutral brake light trigger. maybe adjust your shifter down lower so it's easier to up-shift?

also i would recommend against shifting into neutral at lights... i've been saved by staying in gear more than once when sitting at a light because some idiot isn't paying attention and would have rearended me if i didn't notice them looking down while pulling up full speed... plus its one more thing you have to do when taking off... plus it makes your left hand's fingers wicked strong

[andrewsfm]

Originally Posted by Honko

You should just go to an empty space for a couple of hours and just practice shifting from 1st to 2nd, back down to first and back up to second until you get the hang of it. If it helps you can lift your foot up to shift and hold it there until you release the clutch completely and then let your foot off.

Rear brake

I've got the hang of shifting, but sometimes maybe I don't shift hard enough into 2nd? Probably worried about getting moving at the light in a hurry.
In a empty parking lot that real need to get going isn't the same.

I just got my bike lowered so I can flat foot the ground on both sides.
I no longer have to lean it to the left and put my foot on the rear brake.
So yeah, holding the rear brake would work too of course, but kind of defeats the purpose.

This mod is very low on the priority list I've got for my bike, but it looks like if I want to do it, it'll have to be with a relay. Thanks.

[setasai]

I'm with the others, I wouldnt mess with something as important as the brake light. Also, you need to be in neutral to adjust your brake light triggers. If I were you, I'd spend that brain power on something else especially when alot of things could go wrong if something were to short out.

I'm totally down for attempting it if you have nothing else to do. Sounds like an interesting idea and could probably be useful to some of our other mods as information. Let us know what you decide.

[Honko]

Originally Posted by andrewsfm

I've got the hang of shifting, but sometimes maybe I don't shift hard enough into 2nd? Probably worried about getting moving at the light in a hurry.
In a empty parking lot that real need to get going isn't the same.

I just got my bike lowered so I can flat foot the ground on both sides.
I no longer have to lean it to the left and put my foot on the rear brake.
So yeah, holding the rear brake would work too of course, but kind of defeats the purpose.

This mod is very low on the priority list I've got for my bike, but it looks like if I want to do it, it'll have to be with a relay. Thanks.

I'm not picking on you or trying to antagonize you, just trying to give some constructive criticism: if you're shifting into neutral enough that you're considering trying to do something as drastic as you are, you probably don't have the hang of shifting. As for the urgency to get going, I can understand that, but if you go practice it enough that it becomes second nature and engrained in your muscle memory, then that urgency won't have as much effect (if at all) on your pulling off from a stop.

And yes, it could be because you aren't kicking your foot up enough when you shift that could be causing the issue. I'd definitely look into doing what Alex suggested in adjust the shift lever so it's lower, it's a VERY easy adjustment.

Originally Posted by andrewsfm

I just got my bike lowered so I can flat foot the ground on both sides.
I no longer have to lean it to the left and put my foot on the rear brake.
So yeah, holding the rear brake would work too of course, but kind of defeats the purpose.

This mod is very low on the priority list I've got for my bike, but it looks like if I want to do it, it'll have to be with a relay. Thanks.

Not when the purpose is to give you hands a rest while still having your brake light active, which is what it seems like you were concerned about?

[Honko]

Originally Posted by alex.s

i would suggest spending the time working on your shifting instead of trying to setup a neutral brake light trigger. maybe adjust your shifter down lower so it's easier to up-shift?

also i would recommend against shifting into neutral at lights... i've been saved by staying in gear more than once when sitting at a light because some idiot isn't paying attention and would have rearended me if i didn't notice them looking down while pulling up full speed... plus its one more thing you have to do when taking off... plus it makes your left hand's fingers wicked strong

This is definitely true haha.

[Kevin2109]

Originally Posted by alex.s

i would suggest spending the time working on your shifting instead of trying to setup a neutral brake light trigger. maybe adjust your shifter down lower so it's easier to up-shift?

also i would recommend against shifting into neutral at lights... i've been saved by staying in gear more than once when sitting at a light because some idiot isn't paying attention and would have rearended me if i didn't notice them looking down while pulling up full speed... plus its one more thing you have to do when taking off... plus it makes your left hand's fingers wicked strong

Couldnt have said it better, dont mask the problem, learn how to fix it. Trust me I suffer from lazy ass shifting too

[Lowspeed Lowside]

I think the OP problem is that he was looking for a solution that is too specific. What I think he really wants is for the brake light to go on during negative acceleration (a.k.a. "breaking") whether the breaks are engaged or not.

I don't think this is such a bad idea. If we had a replacement for the stock electronics based on a PIC32MX795 ($40 for a dev-board here), then adding this feature wouldn't be that difficult. As far as I can tell, all we'd need is one unused I/O pin (the board has 78, so this isn't a problem), a MOSFET, and one line of source-code.

Note to the OP:

It's your bike, so you can do with it as you damn well see fit. Not only can everything be fixed, it can also be improved upon. Don't let anybody discourage you from trying something new.

[Felipe the Ant]

or when you miss a shift you can pull the front brake until it clicks on the brake light. there's a pretty big gap between when the switch clicks and the brakes apply