Swing arm

[rodster]

I have a Gpz 500 which I am updating useing ninja 250 parts, someone on another forum has done a swingarm swap, he needed 3.5mm spacers on both sides I think ( may be wrong )

What swing arm options are there for the ninja 250
I know there is the stock one but I heard delkevic make a swing arm but I can't find one based anywhere but Indonesia, I'm wodering on the quality and if it is actually delkevic who make it, because I woild have thought they would have made them for the uk and U.S. market also,my reason for upgrading is mine is rusty and I would like swing arm spools and mane a ninja 250 hugger

Thankyou
Danny

[Somchai]

Maybe you want to take a look here http://empiremotoshop.com/products/32/0/Swing-arm/

[JohnnyBravo]

The bulk of sweet parts for the 250 / 300 come from that area... Most are of pretty good quality from what I have seen and heard.

[InvisiBill]

Yes, the 500's swingarm pivot is 7mm wider than the NewGen's, so you'll need 3.5mm of spacing (one way or another) on each side. http://www.ex-500.com/index.php/topi...tml#msg1095482

Depending on how much of a hugger you want, the OEM 300 chainguard has a small one builtin. You can either mod the 250 swingarm a bit to accept the 300 chainguard/hugger, or you can use a 300 swingarm (which is identical to the 250's other than the minor accessory mounting differences as far as I know).



I've only ever seen the SE Asia replacement swingarms. A lot of them seem to be for appearance more than anything else. Some look like they would be quite a bit heavier (adding unsprung weight might noticeably affect the performance of the bike - my 500 seems to accelerate a little quicker with just the slightly-lighter VRossi wheels).

Originally Posted by InvisiBill

Overall, I don't think this is a necessary mod for most people. On a stock bike, the only thing you're really gaining is the spool mounts (which could be added to the stock swingarm fairly easily). If you have a larger shock or wheel and would need to mod the original swingarm anyway, you might consider this option instead.

[Somchai]

Originally Posted by InvisiBill

Yes, the 500's swingarm pivot is 7mm wider than the NewGen's, so you'll need 3.5mm of spacing (one way or another) on each side. http://www.ex-500.com/index.php/topi...tml#msg1095482

I've only ever seen the SE Asia replacement swingarms. A lot of them seem to be for appearance more than anything else. Some look like they would be quite a bit heavier (adding unsprung weight might noticeably affect the performance of the bike - my 500 seems to accelerate a little quicker with just the slightly-lighter VRossi wheels).

Is it possible to add 3.5 mm spacing on the right side without changing the attachment (is this the right word?) of the brake caliper?
The second thing is that I'd weigh my stock new-gen swing arm, the weight is 5.9 kg but when I rely on informations from three different companies in Germany about the shipping weight for the GPZ 500 S swing arm then this is 8.5 kg what is 2.6 kg heavier. If this is really true then the 500's swing arm would not be the best way to go.

By the way your link is leading to a website where you must login, what in my p.o.v. is not very helpful.

[rodster]

Thankyou everyone

When the swing arm pivots will it not rub on the spacers ? And I like the look of the delkevic swing arm but a ninja 300 one seems the way to go,
And bill, what tyre are you running, the set up looks amazing and o saw your post on ex500 and it got me thinking, my swing arm is rotten and the uk road salt just ruins the powder coating after a year or two and constant cleaning is a faff, do they use the same swing arm bearings and mounting points aside from the spacers,
For the rims I have to use a zx6r ( possibly ) front and ninja 250 rear as they are the same design, if I had single disc on the front I would try eather the v Rossi rims or the chenco rims, but I think I'll try genuine OEM parts, it just depends on the axle diameter on the zx6r rim,

And thanks for the link to empire Moto, Im scared of buying something not OEM and so cheap and it failing on me, as the GPZ os heavier than the 250 and Uk roads are riddled with pot holes and horreable surfaces so it's very stressful on the components

And thanks for the lil quote it made me chuckle it's pay day on Tuesday so I think I'll get a swing arm

It's just the question to of the spacers will wear way As the swing arm will rub agains them when they move ? Or am
I being simples Danny

[rodster]

I have tried contacting empire Moto with no luck as the yahoo account they have doesn't exist,

[InvisiBill]

Originally Posted by Somchai

Is it possible to add 3.5 mm spacing on the right side without changing the attachment (is this the right word?) of the brake caliper?
The second thing is that I'd weigh my stock new-gen swing arm, the weight is 5.9 kg but when I rely on informations from three different companies in Germany about the shipping weight for the GPZ 500 S swing arm then this is 8.5 kg what is 2.6 kg heavier. If this is really true then the 500's swing arm would not be the best way to go.

By the way your link is leading to a website where you must login, what in my p.o.v. is not very helpful.

The wheel end of the EX500 and EX250J swingarms are identical as far as I can tell. The pivot point where it mounts to the frame is slightly wider on the 500. The swingarm's cross-bracing between the shock hole and the wheel area is slightly smaller on the 250, giving a little more room for a bigger shock and maybe tire. The chainguard mounts and brake line brackets are slightly different between the two. You'd have a hard time telling them apart - you might think one is from a slightly newer year of the same bike or something.

Having held both of them in my hands (I bought a spare 500 swingarm before deciding to switch to the 250 part), I doubt there's nearly 6lb of difference between the two. I'd guess maybe half a pound, if that (shipping weight != actual item weight). I didn't weigh them, because they're so similar I didn't expect any weight change at all.

Here's a pic of the 500 (red) and 250 (black) swingarms together from the first guy over there who did it.



You can see the inside chainguard bracket on the red 500 swingarm (comparable to the slot at the front of the 250 swingarm). That interferes with the wider VRossi wheel/tire. In wanting to keep all my stock parts unmodded, this meant buying a new 500 swingarm to mod instead. A number of people have had problems with the 500's chainguard mounting tabs breaking off (usually on the upgraded metal Bandit ones, but some with stockers even), so I figured removing the inside support for the chainguard wouldn't help anything. I decided to go with the 250 swingarm to avoid that, plus get spool mounts, a little more shock room, and nicer looking welds, since I was going to be buying and modding a swingarm regardless.

I included the link mainly for rodster, figuring that he already had an account over there, or should make one if he doesn't. I know at least a handful of people here have accounts there too. Since I'm always logged in, it's a bit of a pain to check what does and doesn't work when not logged in. Sorry, I'm lazy that way.

Here are a couple pics of the spacers (not pressed up tight against the oil seals) for people without an account.

Originally Posted by rodster

When the swing arm pivots will it not rub on the spacers ? And I like the look of the delkevic swing arm but a ninja 300 one seems the way to go,
And bill, what tyre are you running, the set up looks amazing and o saw your post on ex500 and it got me thinking, my swing arm is rotten and the uk road salt just ruins the powder coating after a year or two and constant cleaning is a faff, do they use the same swing arm bearings and mounting points aside from the spacers,
For the rims I have to use a zx6r ( possibly ) front and ninja 250 rear as they are the same design, if I had single disc on the front I would try eather the v Rossi rims or the chenco rims, but I think I'll try genuine OEM parts, it just depends on the axle diameter on the zx6r rim,

It's just the question to of the spacers will wear way As the swing arm will rub agains them when they move ? Or am I being simples :p Danny

The sleeve that gets bolted into the frame, which the swingarm pivots on, is the same OD on the 500 and the 250. The length of the sleeve is different (the 7mm difference requiring the spacers) and the 250 has a bigger bolt and therefore a larger ID. You need to use the 500 sleeve and bolt to fit the 500 frame's width and mounting holes, so the details of the 250 sleeve don't really matter much, but I just thought I'd point out the differences. The needle bearings inside both swingarms are made for the OD (the same on both sleeves), which is the important part.

The spacers sit between the oil seal (the black ring in the pics) and the frame. Instead of the oil seals being up against the frame, they're up against the spacers. If the swingarm's motion causes the spacer to turn, you could have some wear between the spacer and the frame, or between the spacer and the sleeve. I haven't bothered to check on it yet to see if there's any wear, but I doubt there's anything noticeable. I was looking into adding some sort of key to the outside of the spacer (as opposed to a simple flat surface) to lock it into the frame somehow, but didn't figure it was worth the trouble.

You could pull the swingarm off a 250 and plop it right onto a 500. The only issue is that there would be 7mm of side to side play of the swingarm inside the frame. The spacers take up that 7mm and keep the swingarm centered in the frame.

I'm using Michelin Pilot Powers, stock 110/70-17 on the front and 150/60-17 in the back. Here are some various pics of the setup...

[Somchai]

@InvisiBill, thx for your information and by the way you're bike is looking good

[InvisiBill]

Originally Posted by Somchai

@InvisiBill, thx for your information and by the way you're bike is looking good

Thanks, I like it. =) My goal is generally to make any mod look good enough that someone who wasn't pretty familiar with the bike wouldn't know it wasn't stock. Besides all this swingarm/wheels/tires stuff, there are at least a dozen other visible mods in the parking lot pic (counting pairs/sets as 1 mod each).

I'm a big fan of sharing as much information as possible. I figure that if everyone shares something when they figure it out, then nobody else has to waste time figuring that out again. Instead, they can use that time to figure out something new. We all benefit from getting more stuff figured out, rather than everyone figuring out the same stuff over and over. Most of the details about the swingarm and VRossi wheel swap onto the 500 were figured out by other people even. I just took what they did, overanalyzed it, honed it a bit, then took a bunch of pics of it.

Like I said, there's not a whole lot of benefit to doing the swingarm swap if there isn't a specific reason the 250 piece works better than the 500 piece for your situation (especially here on Ninjette, since we're talking about a 500). But if anyone does stumble across a need for this info, here it is. Hopefully it'll save them some time and effort.

[rodster]

bill you are the man,

you have cleared up the questions i have and i will be ordering a swing arm tonight, im happy you have told me i can use the ex500 bearings as i just bought a new kit, and on the spacers side they are allot better than i imagened, i here what you say about makeing a keeway but if its greased it should be great,
did fog make those spacers, and finaly do you by any chance have all the measurements of them.
also the ex500 internal sleve being longer, does it need to be trimmed down ? or just slot it in,

thanks again bill, it makes my life easier and looking at your bike, i have a good goal
this is my ex500 as she stands
IMG_2602.jpg

[rodster]

just ordered a ninja 250 swing arm for a whopping 22 quid with free postage, it is straight and clean so next i need to message a guy on ex500 abut some spacers