Riding in the Canyons - first timer

[Skid]

Any advice for a new rider going to the canyons for the first time? What are some common mistakes/pitfalls?

I joined a meetup group and it's supposed to be a beginner's group ride next saturday, but I'd like to be prepared.

[PsHYk]

ive only been riding around a month and a half but ive been on rides in the mountains and all i can say is that make sure you know your limits and if you see a turn coming to make sure you know if you should slow down because if you end up needing the other lane and the turn isnt one where you can see if there is traffic coming you might end up having a really bad day...

[BFisher244]

Look thru your turns. Avoid tarket fixation. Do all of your shifting/breaking before going into the turns. Stay at a speed in which you're comfortable. Take video so we can all see the canyons.

[Galaxieman]

First and foremost ride your own ride. I've linked up with groups from meetup a couple of times and it really depends on the area and guys/girls as to whether it's people I'd be comfortable riding with. Remember that you can't win a day in the canyons, and a still-shiny 250 beats a wadded up 600-class machine any day of the week.

Something to consider on a bike like the ninjette, is to leave it in 3rd gear or so for canyon runs. This gives you pretty decent access to power without having to downshift, and limits how far over the posted speed limit you can go. If you know that 3rd redlines at 12 over, you know you won't be at risk of getting a ticket for anything more than 12 over... just a thought. It also keeps you from trying to 'catch up' down straights, and to think more about lines, entry speeds, etc, without having to worry about shifting. To really get the bike leaned over hard you need to be on a REALLY curvy road, or at racetrack speeds. Staying down in the gears helps keep you from getting up to race pace and concentrate more on riding the bike, rather than keeping up.

[Skid]

Thanks for the tips!

We have lots of nice canyons to ride in the L.A. area. This is on Mulholland Drive, near Malibu, CA.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nywcp...feature=fvwrel

This is filmed near a stretch of road called the "Snake". A lot of riders eat it here. The guy who films these videos just camp out and film riders going through it. He has like 500 videos of crashes. I won't be going here any time soon.

[Skid]

Originally Posted by Cluck

Which canyon and what group you heading out with?

Hitting up Angeles Crest, with a meetup group called S.C.A.R. (So Cal Asian Riders). A friend of mine asked me to ride with him in the group, so I agreed to go. They seem like a responsible group, requiring safety gear. They ride in packs of 10-15 with an experienced lead and sweeper.

It's a "welcome new members" ride (read "noob") group, so I doubt we're going to be dragging knees

[Kevin2109]

SCARE is a good group of guys, they ride in 3 levels so it can be reallllllly slow, but good for the noobs

My first scar ride:

Link to original page on YouTube.

[ally99]

Originally Posted by BFisher244

Take video so we can all see the canyons.

First word of advice would be to not do what he said above. People tend to rider harder and "show off" knowing they're being videoed. It's not a distraction or a temptation you need for your first time.

Slow in, fast out.

If you take a corner too hot, all you can do is lean it more. No brake once in corner.

Try to stay in one or two gears to limit shifting and upsetting the bike.

Look all the way through the corner!!!! MOST IMPORTANT!

Stay loose on the bars no matter what happens. Loose is better in every situation (on the bike at least! )

Ride your own ride. Don't worry if others are faster/slower than you. Enjoy it for what it is.

Have fun!!

[choneofakind]

Ally is completely right! Slow in, fast out is a very important thing on the street. Be smooth. Slow down earlier than needed; no need to back your braking point up so far that you have to trail brake when you're on the street. As you ride with others and see how they ride, you'll see that there's a difference between a spirited ride through the twisties and going stupid fast.

Again, ride at the pace that you enjoy; no need to scare yourself or bore yourself just to stick with the others. The group is perfectly capable of waiting for everyone to catch up, no matter where you fall in that spectrum.
Posted via Mobile Device

[BFisher244]

Originally Posted by ally99

First word of advice would be to not do what he said above. People tend to rider harder and "show off" knowing they're being videoed. It's not a distraction or a temptation you need for your first time.

I respectfully disagree. Recording yourself is a great way to analyze your technique so that you can continuously improve. I regularly record my rides and watch them later so I can fix any poor habits or technique. A few times I've posted vids on this site and other members have pointed out items that I didin't even notice. This all leads to making me a more skilled rider. I've also had my wife record every one of her rides starting with her 1st to always improve. Our post ride analysis has fixed some of her bad habits. Neither one of us has ever been tempted to showoff for the camera.

[massacremasses]

Originally Posted by BFisher244

I respectfully disagree. Recording yourself is a great way to analyze your technique so that you can continuously improve. I regularly record my rides and watch them later so I can fix any poor habits or technique. A few times I've posted vids on this site and other members have pointed out items that I didin't even notice. This all leads to making me a more skilled rider. I've also had my wife record every one of her rides starting with her 1st to always improve. Our post ride analysis has fixed some of her bad habits. Neither one of us has ever been tempted to showoff for the camera.

agreed.

videoing yourself is like videoing your football games. Its necessary to become better.

[Kevin2109]

Originally Posted by BFisher244

I respectfully disagree. Recording yourself is a great way to analyze your technique so that you can continuously improve. I regularly record my rides and watch them later so I can fix any poor habits or technique. A few times I've posted vids on this site and other members have pointed out items that I didin't even notice. This all leads to making me a more skilled rider. I've also had my wife record every one of her rides starting with her 1st to always improve. Our post ride analysis has fixed some of her bad habits. Neither one of us has ever been tempted to showoff for the camera.

+100 If anything when I'm on video I run slower, I dont want to crash on cam lol And watching yourself in action is the most valuable thing in the world, Ive cut so much time off my lap times because of video

[wtf]

Some advice I would give like others have mentioned is:

1. Always look deep thru the turns. Do not target fixate.
1a. Know your limits.
2. Always stay in your lane.
3. There are a lot of loose gravel and fallen rocks at corner apex.
4. Do not shift or brake in the corner.
5. Lean more if coming in too hot in the corner
5. Enjoy the ride.

Mulholland "The Snake":
1. There are a lot of off-camber uphill (or downhill depending on which way you go) sweepers, a lot of which are very tight and technical. Seeing it on video is very misleading. I've almost gotten burned my first time out on the bike. You may need to lean more than necessary in this section.
1a. Left to right transitions are quick. Be smooth in your throttle inputs and your lines that mother nature has provided for that day, and you will be rewarded without being on Youtube.
2. Respect this section.
3. Stay in your lane. Always. Your life will depend on it. The lane width is really narrow for a car. The CHP or Sheriff will nail you for a ticket if you cross over.
4. Stay in 2nd gear in this section with the revs fairly high.
5. Be smooth with your throttle mid corner.
6. Do not target fixate. Very easy to do here.
7. Watch out for cyclists, otehr riders, cagers, and animals crossing the road.
8. If you go to the back half (towards PCH) it get really tight. Tighter than the Snake. There are lots of rocks and loose dirt on the road (esp. at the corner apex). The view here is really nice.

Crest
After an incident on this road (in my car) I've not gone back here. A friend of mine almost died here after an oncoming vehicle crossed the yellow line and hit him. There is limited street cleaning here so watch out for fallen rocks/boulders and loose dirt.

1. A lot of high speed corners.
2. Same advice as above.

Other areas are GMR, Palomar, Ortega, PV East (The switchback section is not long but its fun and a good starting point. Less technical than Mullholland)

As far as filming yourself. IMO I think its a good way to see your progress and a way to improve yourself.

Be safe.

[ally99]

Originally Posted by BFisher244

I respectfully disagree. Recording yourself is a great way to analyze your technique so that you can continuously improve. I regularly record my rides and watch them later so I can fix any poor habits or technique. A few times I've posted vids on this site and other members have pointed out items that I didin't even notice. This all leads to making me a more skilled rider. I've also had my wife record every one of her rides starting with her 1st to always improve. Our post ride analysis has fixed some of her bad habits. Neither one of us has ever been tempted to showoff for the camera.

I absolutely agree! I've learned so much from videos of my riding! I was just suggesting it might not be best for HIS current situation...very first ride in the canyons, with a group of other riders who may or may not be experienced...but you're right. Not everyone lets their adrenaline screw with them, but there are those who do, especially when cornering adrenaline kicks in as it sometimes does in these types of situations. It's MUCH different than regular street riding. I still don't think it's the best idea on a first ride through the canyons, but I see your point and can respectfully agree to disagree.

[Vergil]

Originally Posted by Kevin2109

SCARE is a good group of guys, they ride in 3 levels so it can be reallllllly slow, but good for the noobs

My first scar ride:

Link to original page on YouTube.

I really like that camera angle

[Kevin2109]

Originally Posted by Vergil

I really like that camera angle

I'm sad that it broke I should make another one!

[Vergil]

Did you jerryrig some pvc pipe and tape or something?

[Kevin2109]

[Kevin2109]

This was at the SCAR starting point!!

[Vergil]

How'd it break? Wind resistance snap it?

[Kevin2109]

Originally Posted by Vergil

How'd it break? Wind resistance snap it?

wheelie

[Vergil]

Thats an acceptable way to do it. I was hoping you didn't go into a parking garage or something and forget it was on. Did it break your camera?

[Kevin2109]

haha no, me and dustin were helping push @alex.s's dead bike up a hill. We took a break and decided to do a wheelie, my dumbass didnt turn the camera on :'( The camera was totally fine, these gopros are pretty amazing

[alex.s]

best. wheelie. ever.

[CC Cowboy]

Check your tire pressure before you go.

[Chuffmonkey]

Originally Posted by Galaxieman

First and foremost ride your own ride.

Came here to say this

[JeffM]

Ride the Pace.

The Pace focuses on bike control and de-emphasizes outright speed. Full-throttle acceleration and last minute braking aren't part of the program, effectively eliminating the two most common single-bike accident scenarios in sport riding.

[alex.s]

im with ally. dont worry about it. go slow. you arent at the level where you need a video to know what you are doing wrong.

youll know what your limits are. unbearably slow is too slow. anything faster than slow is too fast. when you get better, it will still feel slow but youll be going faster.

things only feel fast when they are happening quicker than you can easily account for them.

[adouglas]

Some good advice here.

Absolutely ride your own ride. Don't chase people and don't feel pressured by the guy behind you. Don't worry about anyone else.

Believe me, it's hard to do. Getting caught up in the moment is the easiest trap in the world to fall into.

Keith Code says to ride at 75 percent of your limit so you have some reserve attention. I think he's spot on. The minute you feel you're pushing, getting tense, gripping too hard, unable to think ahead…. you're setting yourself up for trouble.

Last word… KEEP IT SIMPLE. You've been given some very detailed lists. As good as all that advice is, if you try to keep all that stuff in mind at all times you won't have any attention left for actually riding and enjoying yourself.

[Skid]

Went to the group ride yesterday and it was an absolute blast.

A couple of our forum members were there as well. I rode slowly at first at the back of the pack behind one of the other newer riders until I got the hang of it.

I got used to countersteering and leaning the bike to control how sharp to make the turn. There were long sweeping turns into switchbacks, and no time to think of anything else but the upcoming turn. Pity though, couldn't enjoy the awesome scenery.

To toua70 and broilmebk, it was nice meeting you guys in person.

[adouglas]

You want to check out the scenery, get a Greyhound ticket and stare out the window.

My favorite piece of scenery is the apex of the next turn….

The pleasure I get from riding comes from executing the skills… the perfect line through the corner, braking, shifting and getting on the power exactly right… that's a thing of beauty.

[R1Chronicles]

GPS, lets you know whats ahead, I love them for roads I've never been on.

Good front brake control.