LED Taillight/Flushmounts/Mirrors [Video] Signal Issue

[UltrA_09]

I have finally finished installing all the major LED's I was interested in incorporating into my bike, however I have a small issue concerning the integrated turn signals/blinking lights [see VIDEO below].

Link to original page on YouTube.

I believe I have done everything correctly, however the end result isn't exactly how I had expected it to turn out.

I have completed the following:
Bikemonkey LED Tail Light (plug-n-play with integrated LED & Stock turn-signals)
Proton flushmounts (strobe)
LED Mirrors
LED Flasher Relay
2x Diodes (1N4004)

I believe the problem began when I had installed the Diodes, as when the taillight was installed without the LED Mirrors/Protons/Diodes, the light worked perfectly as such. Would the fact that I went with the 1N4004 diodes instead of the 1N4001 diodes possibly be the reason for this issue?

Any ideas at all would be great; or with anyone with a similar set-up, do your integrated lights behave similarly?



Special thanks to jonthechron for tail light.

[headshrink]

I can't help with the technical part of it, but as a complete package I would have to say it all looks great. Very visible, and good looking!

[addy126]

Got my BMonkey from Jon... works just fine and the way it was intended. I did not change out my stock signals (kept them operational with the integrated indicators as well and kept my brake modulator in place.

[draco413]

dont know if u know this but, Diodes are used to rectify alternating current into direct current. However, rectification will not occur when the frequency of the alternating current is too high. This is due to what is known as the "reverse recovery characteristic."
The reverse recovery characteristic can be explained as follows:
IF the opposite voltage is suddenly applied to a forward-biased diode, current will continue to flow in the forward direction for a brief moment. This time until the current stops flowing is called the Reverse Recovery Time. The current is considered to be stopped when it falls to about 10% of the value of the peak reverse current.
The Shottky barrier diode has a short reverse recovery time, which makes it ideally suited to use in high frequency rectification.
The voltage drop in the forward direction is low.
The reverse recovery time is short. so that might be the problem is the diode has a short recovery time hope this helps

[UltrA_09]

Originally Posted by addy126

Got my BMonkey from Jon... works just fine and the way it was intended. I did not change out my stock signals (kept them operational with the integrated indicators as well and kept my brake modulator in place.

Have you installed any other LEDs requiring the diode installation? I figure thats where things went wrong in my case, and was hoping somone would have a similar set-up to mine to compare it with

Originally Posted by draco413

where do u have the diodes connected too?

I had followed the DIY using the 1N4004 Diodes.

The turn-signal bulb is wired using two cables (Grey and Green).
I have the grey cable grounded, and the green cable splitting in 2, with a diode connected to both ends, then connected to the other ends of the grey/green cables (as shown here).

I also decided to connect the LED Mirrors using it's own connector also under the dash (reason being I didn't want to wire them using the proton turn-signal connectors as then I would have no way to take off the fairing completely without having to remove the mirrors every time).
The LED Mirror connector is wired directly after the diodes, before each diode cable reaches the turn-signal sockets under the dash (as shown below)
(image developed thanks to Momaru's post)

[draco413]

i just have and intergrated led tail light and and hb undertail with led turnsignals built in and have no problem, and have a stock resistor. try taking off the diodes and see how they work like that it sound like the diodes to me....why not put quick disconnects from the mirros and proton signals, with the hb undertail i installed quick disconnects on the undertail incase i ever have to take it off

[UltrA_09]

Originally Posted by draco413

i just have and intergrated led tail light and and hb undertail with led turnsignals built in and have no problem, and have a stock resistor. try taking off the diodes and see how they work like that it sound like the diodes to me....why not put quick disconnects from the mirros and proton signals, with the hb undertail i installed quick disconnects on the undertail incase i ever have to take it off

I'm quite new to this, and didn't realized using 'quick disconnects' was possible.

Your above post regarding the diode's frequency of alternating current is very informative I'm sure , though I am not (if at all) familiar with current/voltage, or other basic electronic logic unfortunately (Yes, I am not undergoing an Electronic Engineering major ). Making the tail-light plug-n-play was actually the first project I've done concerning wiring (I was very happy that it worked from the first try ).

I think I might take your suggestion and disconnect the diodes to see what happens; although that may not be for a few days... what would you suggest if the diodes did turn out to be cause of the problem?

[draco413]

dont use them i think that would be the best thing to do, those are meant for low amps circuitry

[draco413]

im not either lol i did some electrician work and came across wiring up some computer switches for back up generators

[Momaru]

Faisal, I like your mirror wiring setup, glad that bloody diagram got some use (I must've spent over an hour drawing that up in MSPaint). Been considering the same for my turn signals.

My current setup has Protons ('normal' flash) up front, BM integrated and stock signals in the rear, 1N4001 diodes under the dash and a replacement flasher relay. My BM rear currently performs exactly like yours is doing now. When I had all stock signals in, it worked like it 'should' with the red running lamps coming on between flashes. As such, I don't think it's the diode rating that's doing it.

Originally Posted by draco413

dont use them i think that would be the best thing to do, those are meant for low amps circuitry

Unfortunately the reason the diodes are there is that the way the 250's turn signals are wired results in all of the signals activating (left and right side) due to insufficient resistance in the circuit if they're all LED. However I agree this may be the source of the issue.

If you plan on leaving your rear stock signals in place/in the circuit, I'm 95% sure removing the diodes will solve your issue and still allow normal blinker function due to the resistance of the rear lamps (I installed my diodes about a month after the protons in anticipation of replacing the rear stock stalks, which I still haven't gotten to).

All that said, I've grown to like the on/off flash instead of red/orange. Seems less likely to confuse.

[kevlar250]

The diodes are not the problem as they have no connection to the running lamp circuit. All they do is prevent the relatively low resistance (compared to LED's) of the incandescent dash bulb from causing your ALL LED turn-signal system from becoming a 4-way flasher system. Impressed with finding the info on diode reverse recovery time but that's only for a few micro-seconds, not visible with LEDs & eyeballs. Are you sure the light isn't supposed to do that as it adds a lot more noticeable contrast to the blinking action?

[Momaru]

Quite sure, as every BM tail I've seen on an otherwise electrically stock bike alternates red/orange, including mine before I made additional changes.

[jonthechron]

I have yet to install protons, but maybe it has something to do with the way protons are made? maybe an other pair of diodes on the protons would help?

btw: no amperage difference between 1N4001 or 1N4004

[Momaru]

Perhaps but I have my doubts. However I do have my stock blinkers and will swap them out with my protons in the next day or so, to see if that's it. Can't for the life of me think of how/why, but there's only so many components that it could be, may as well start somewhere.

[jonthechron]

ok, let me know if you find out, the only thing i can think of is current back flow from the protons and since current cant flow towards the dash light (since it has diodes on the circuit) it flows the other way, to the rear light..

but this is all theoretical..

[Momaru]

Once again, my curiosity and boredom beat out common sense. Just went outside in the drizzle and checked. My light does perform as the OP's with the protons in. When the stock signals were swapped out, the red running lights were lighting much longer between amber flashes but still some delay of the red lighting after the amber. Doing vid editing now, will post in a few mins

Edit:Sorry about the lighting, my parking lot sucks

With protons up front
protons.mpg

With stock signals up front (sitting on the seat)
stockers.mpg (think I fixed it)

Hope this helps. I'll take a look at the wiring diagram for some kind of crossover, but I'm starting to think like jon; it's a peculiarity in the way the protons are designed interacting with the circuitry in the tail.

Edit2: re-uploaded the second video

[UltrA_09]

Originally Posted by Momaru

All that said, I've grown to like the on/off flash instead of red/orange. Seems less likely to confuse.

I actually completely agree. The difference in contrast between amber/red isn't nearly as obvious as the contrast between amber/black.
At this point I'm not sure whether I would even be interested in using the 'proper' functionality of the light; I am however still curious as to why this is happening.

Originally Posted by kevlar250

The diodes are not the problem as they have no connection to the running lamp circuit. All they do is prevent the relatively low resistance (compared to LED's) of the incandescent dash bulb from causing your ALL LED turn-signal system from becoming a 4-way flasher system. Impressed with finding the info on diode reverse recovery time but that's only for a few micro-seconds, not visible with LEDs & eyeballs. Are you sure the light isn't supposed to do that as it adds a lot more noticeable contrast to the blinking action?

The taillight is designed to flash like this.

Originally Posted by Momaru

Once again, my curiosity and boredom beat out common sense. Just went outside in the drizzle and checked. My light does perform as the OP's with the protons in. When the stock signals were swapped out, the red running lights were lighting much longer between amber flashes but still some delay of the red lighting after the amber. Doing vid editing now, will post in a few mins

Edit:Sorry about the lighting, my parking lot sucks

With protons up front
Attachment 6764

With stock signals up front (sitting on the seat)
Attachment 6765

Hope this helps. I'll take a look at the wiring diagram for some kind of crossover, but I'm starting to think like jon; it's a peculiarity in the way the protons are designed interacting with the circuitry in the tail.

Too bad that second attachment isn't working! I was very eager to see your results!

I just realized that since I had made the tailight fully plug-n-play, I will try disconnecting the rear stock-flashers from the circuit to see whether that would allow the integrated taillight flashers to work properly. If the taillight does result in functioning properly, it may prove that the following assumption is correct:

Originally Posted by Momaru

removing the diodes will solve your issue and still allow normal blinker function due to the resistance of the rear lamps

^ I will try this later this afternoon.

[Momaru]

FWIW and copied from another thread:

Figured it out, at least in my case. I'd bought the wrong type of flasher, which wound up causing some weird issues with my Protons as well as the BM "no interim red". Replaced it with one of the CF12ANL-01 from superbrightLEDS and all works as it should now. No cutting, splicing or soldering needed, plugs right in.

[Buffalony]

now it looks like a sequenced flash. its an added bonus/mod. Looks pretty damn dope to me....just drive it.

[sean46]

Hi there:

Wondering in anyone can help me

Im having problems connecting the wires for the tail light to work.

I have connected the brake light which just clicks into the socket and now im left with two yellow wires for the turn signals, what must i do now?
I still have the connections for the indicators which are connected to the bike, one wire is yellow and black and the other wire in green, what must i do now in order to make the indicators work and flash, please help!

[CThunder-blue]

Each of the 2 remaining wires gets connected to each of the original turn signal wires. You can either choose to cut off the original wires from the turn signals, or use some quick connects to connect the wires together.

[deviousvixen]

can someone explain or show some pictures on how to connect the turn signals... I want to keep my existing ones for now as well as have the tail light blink too... I have attached the brake light with no problems. I just.. have never done something like this before and My bike is in pieces, which is fine cause it doesn't have insurance,but I'd like to get the signal bit figured out before putting it back together.

[CThunder-blue]

The turn signals have male/female connectors. You just have to find where they're located. Why is your bike in pieces? Did you take it apart or did you end up with the bike this way? It helps to know some more info.

[evi1joe]

When I looked at your Proton installation DIY, I noticed there was soldering and other stuff.

Are these not plug-n-play?

I want to install two (strobes) up front because they're also daytime running lights (or so I've read), BUT there's no way I'm gonna buy a solder gun, etc.

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by evi1joe

I want to install two (strobes) up front because they're also daytime running lights (or so I've read),

I'm assuming you are talking about a headlight modulator???

[evi1joe]

Nope. The flush mount protons....somewhere I read the can be used as running lights AND turn signals.

"Functions as a running light and programmable turn signal."
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PROTON-FLUSH...#ht_1235wt_689

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by evi1joe

Nope. The flush mount protons....somewhere I read the can be used as running lights AND turn signals.

"Functions as a running light and programmable turn signal."
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PROTON-FLUSH...#ht_1235wt_689

Oh, OK.... I was confused when you referred to a "strobe." I'm sure they can be wired that way (not sure how).

[CThunder-blue]

In most states, strobe lights are for emergency vehicles only. Be prepared to get pulled over if you go that route.

[headshrink]

Originally Posted by CThunder-blue

In most states, strobe lights are for emergency vehicles only. Be prepared to get pulled over if you go that route.

Ah... so strobe was a hazard light. I was thinking about police lights, LOL!
There is a DIY here that shows how to to a hazard light mod. It's in the DIY section.

[evi1joe]

Doh. I saw the video of the strobe-effect and it looked VERY eye-catching (obviously why emergency vehicles use it). Dang. Well. I'll still get the protons just because they look sooooo good.

BUT do they really require soldering and relays and stuff (if I'm keeping stock rears)? Or are they plug-n-play?!?

[headshrink]

So... you're not talking about hazard lights then if you're referencing emergency vehicles?

EDIT: I'm sorry, I just watched the video and think I understand what you were asking now. It has been a long time since I saw it. I'm fairly certain that would not be legal in the US, BUT it would be great if you found a definitive answer on that. It does look very nice.

[evi1joe]

Yeah, I DON'T REALLY need the strobe, it just looks cool......I just want to know if PROTONS are plug-n-play or require soldering and work. I'm sure it's illegal...maybe there's an option for one strobe flash every other blink or something. ;o)

[CThunder-blue]

I believe the protons are plug and play, otherwise, you're paying a lot of money for a couple of lights.

[UltrA_09]

I have used the strobe turn signal for 2 years now, and I've had absolutely no trouble with the police. I don't believe there is a law pertaining to the number of flashes per second to begin with (where I'm located at least - Ontario, Canada).

The Protons are not plug and play. You must wire them yourself, though that's not too complicated. You can either cut the connectors from the current stock turn signals and use them for your Protons (by either soldering the Proton wires to the connector, or use Posi-lock connectors - which don't require any soldering), or you can keep your stock turn signals and purchase the connectors separately (female 2 Position 050 Connector for each side/proton singal - though that would require soldering), or lastly, you can purchase 4 Posi-taps (2 for each side/protons, 1 positive, 1 negative) and avoid the stock turn-signal connectors by tapping directly into the turn-signal wires on motorcycle. The third option would probably be the easiest, though the only downside is that you must 'untap' the protons every time you want to take the fairing off - which would only take an additional 30-60 seconds.

I wanted to also mention that after 2 years of use, I HIGHLY recommend them, without a doubt. I would much rather be stopped by a police officer due to the strobe (though that is unlikely) than be hit by a driver that didn't notice my turn signals.

Regardless of whether or not you use the strobe setting, I think they're the best looking and most effective flush mount turn signals on the market for the Ninja 250.