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Old August 30th, 2011, 11:00 AM   #41
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Lol nobody does their valve jobs and most people crash their ninja or sell it before they get to 7.500 miles let alone valve job number 2.

Same with super sport bikes.
Half the people who ride these things do not care to maintain them. The other half don't even realize they are supposed to.
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Old August 30th, 2011, 11:13 AM   #42
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I'm coming up on VJ #2 . 2500 miles to go.
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Old August 30th, 2011, 11:18 AM   #43
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I did not catch the type of gasket material you used. I have this permatex red. Any reason that this would not work?

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Old August 30th, 2011, 11:19 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oroboros View Post
I just called the local Good Times Kawasaki dealer and they said they don't stock any of the shims. Seems a bit odd as I would think the service department would be going through them? I guess I'll just order the kit.
The first guy I talked to said the same thing then a guy walked over and said they could sell them out of the kits they use for the bikes in for service. Point is that they have kits. See if they will let you buy out of those.
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Old August 30th, 2011, 11:20 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oroboros View Post
I did not catch the type of gasket material you used. I have this permatex red. Any reason that this would not work?

I didn't use any...
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Old August 30th, 2011, 12:45 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninja250 View Post
Lol nobody does their valve jobs and most people crash their ninja or sell it before they get to 7.500 miles let alone valve job number 2.

Same with super sport bikes.
Half the people who ride these things do not care to maintain them. The other half don't even realize they are supposed to.
I've done it 3X
(I guess it was only 2X, since the dealer did the first one)
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Old August 30th, 2011, 12:49 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oroboros View Post
I did not catch the type of gasket material you used. I have this permatex red. Any reason that this would not work?

I am with the school that doesn't use any. The SM says to only use silicone sealant at two points (the moon-shaped part by the cams), but if you don't pull the rubber gasket off, you should be able to reuse it without resealing it. I suppose there is nothing wrong with sealing it, but I prefer to keep it clean.... especially since I am likely to reopen it if something didn't seat right.
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Old August 30th, 2011, 05:16 PM   #48
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I use a product called Honda Bond 4.

I like making a new seal each time. If I'm working on somebody else's bike, I'm gonna go by the book.
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Old September 6th, 2011, 03:58 AM   #49
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Hey KC, Thanks agin for posting the videos. It was a great help

I confirmed with the Kawi dealer's service dept that they would trade me any shims that I needed since parts does not stock them.

So I did my clearance check last night fully expecting to pull the cams but my specs were all good. I was kinda surprised thinking for sure that a couple would be out.

Afer measuring like 50 times I put it back together. Guess I'm good for another 7.5K
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Old September 17th, 2011, 05:22 PM   #50
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Just completed my fifth Ninjette valve job today!
Enjoy Cazper let me know if anything arises. =)

This one only took me seven hours from start to finish, that's being generous by a half hour.
I think I really did it in 6.5hrs.. with a green burrito lunch break.

If you are in California and need your valves done, I'd be happy to help you out for much less and five times faster than service dept at your local shop. Just bring me fluids, filters and plugs! I do them with pride and joy too so you know your motorcycle is safe with me. You can even sit here and watch..
If it takes overnight, I set up a bed for overnight valve job waiting room.

Gotta order some shims! I have like none left in the Ninjette sizes.
I have been filing the oversized 2.90 shims down to the correct sizes I need.
(2.65mm through 2.85mm)
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Old September 17th, 2011, 05:39 PM   #51
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You should come up to Washington and help me with mine
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Old September 17th, 2011, 06:52 PM   #52
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Watch the video.
Take a nap. (video makes you tired)
Watch the video again.
Get all the tools and parts ready.
Go to sleep. Ni Ni
Watch the video.
Put your computer near your bike.
Take a nap. (blegh)
Watch the video.
Drink some coffee.
Get the manual. Follow it.
Do your valve job.
Go to sleep. Ni ni
Wake up, ride bike. Be happy.

The important part here is to keep watching until you understand. Then, attempt.
Make sure you understand before you do it, and get everythign together FIRST!
It helps more than you will ever know!

It's a simple procedure for the mechanically inclined but still very easy to mess up an engine if you get it wrong. You could potentially throw off the timing, causing valves to open when a piston is at top dead center, tweaking the valve or ceasing the engine or something.

I like to turn it over several times by hand first to make sure all is good before firing it up live on video in case something ever does go wrong.. so I can maybe see if anyone heard what it was.
If anything ever happens it will likely be a timing thing and ruin a valve or two..
I'm always very careful about picking debris from the mix and very cautious about fluids.
That's the easy stuff. Just don't forget anything!!!

After all these valve jobs I'm getting a clear picture of how our little engine works.
I'm starting to wonder if I can't build one myself or do some mods like porting.
Kinda cool, I never understood all this stuff before but now it just clicked.

Wait until it comes time to get to the GSXR valves. I'm actually looking forward to that.
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Old September 17th, 2011, 10:12 PM   #53
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I was thinking of starting a new thread to compliment your work... but it is probably more fitting here...

KC is a ninja mechanic guru!!! I think it was actually closer to 6-6.5hrs start to finish. He is a true professional and everything is working perfectly! Such a relief to get a major service out of the way and to see how it was done was very helpful!!! I definitely recommend KC to anyone in the SoCal area that needs work done on their Ninjette!!! What a standup guy
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Old September 17th, 2011, 11:06 PM   #54
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Glad you got home safe.
I'm not the guru, I learned it all online. I'm just good with tools and electro-mechanical things.
I didn't get a chance to ride your bike up idyllwild for an hour to make sure nothing was missed Normally I should ride that thing around a bit to ensure all my own work is solid and correct.

You saw how I have to double check all the seating on the hoses for whatever reason these things do that too.

Lots of little things here and there.
Keep your eyes on her the next few days. Report anything directly to my text!
I didn't get to beat it around to be 1000% sure everything seated back up correctly.
Give it a couple hundred miles before you hammer it again, just go easy for a bit. Watch for fluids etc. when you get out to the bike int he morning... especially. (after having all night to leak)

Double check your fan is coming back on when it heats up also.. if it even gets hot with all that engine ice stuff you guys keep buying.

Look for oil leaking around the valve cover too. Should be all sealed up well with the new grey honda bond on the right side and none on the left.

triple check oil level and coolant tomorrow at Adrian's

All your inlet valves were in spec and all your exh valves were out of spec at .18mm lash. measured before adjustment.

Still have yet to find a Ninja250 Engine that did not need the adjustment.

Bringing them by earlier at 6500 miles would not hurt you, to catch the valves before they fall from spec. Preventative maintenance. Your bike will love you.
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Old September 22nd, 2011, 06:40 AM   #55
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Anyone know if it's possible to transplant the parts from a pregen to convert it from shim-under-bucket to the screw-adjustable type the previous generation used?
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Old September 24th, 2011, 04:39 PM   #56
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Doing my first valve adjustment on a 600 cc 4 cylinder machine today!
No problem after my practice with the Ninjette! Just a bit more work.
Details:
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showt...664#post376664
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Old September 25th, 2011, 10:13 AM   #57
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I'm glad I live close by to KC, so once I need this done, I'll just swing by his house and kill a few hours.
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Old September 26th, 2011, 06:33 PM   #58
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Woah!
I'm ordering refill shims now for my kit and the cost of my valve jobs just went up!
Check this out... the shims are $11 each!
http://cheapcycleparts.com/model_yea...semblies/25972

If you needed 8 shims that's a potential cost to me of $88 and I only ask $100. lol
Gotta change things around a bit. Consent forms and bill of materials and such.
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Old September 26th, 2011, 09:16 PM   #59
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How much would it cost to get the valves adjusted at the dealer and if I did would it save money to take off the fairings?
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Old September 27th, 2011, 06:11 AM   #60
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If I had to bring my bike to the dealer I'd take everything off I didn't want them touching. That would mean I'd just bring them the head. lol

I can barely trust myself to get the valve jobs perfectly right each time. No way would I trust a dealer. The difference is, I can do them in one day for $100 versus two weeks and $350-$600.

Also when I do it, people get to sit here and watch while I properly torque each bolt on their bike.
This comforts most people quite a bit. Who knows what the mechanics are doing to your ride in the back room for a week or two, ya know? If you have mechanical ability, there's no reason for you not to do your own valves.

Even when I try my hardest to properly do each nut and bolt on the bike, stuff can still happen like that valve cover bolt I broke the other day on Phr3eks bike. Luckily, a magnet removed the broken stud from the cam cover and I pulled a valve cover bolt off my Ninjette that fit the bill exactly. My first inline four valve job and I had him out the door in about 24 hours.. with complications.
All from learning on the Ninjette.

There's absolutely no reason the dealers should be holding your bikes for weeks like that. A competant dealer with parts on hand and a free bay in the garage should have you back your bike inside 24 hours. 3 days max..

The reason is most people don't even know they need valve jobs. The rest crash the bike and total it before it does need the valve job. The dealers probably don't find this as a common process they have to run in to. They mostly just get normal maintenance stuff I'd guess. Chain lubes and tires and oil changes etc. Bring a bike in and ask for a valve job they've never done on that model or whatever and you're looking at a week or two turn around time.

Better to just take the time, read each part 20 times until you understand and do it at home on your own. You'd rather have the bike sit in pieces at your own house anyways most likely unless you have an apartment.

I made you guys this video to use in conjunction with the other valve job DIY's.
Along with the manual (Don't attempt without it), you should be able to use all the resources to complete the valve jobs on your own if you take the time and know how to properly use tools without stripping things and getting frustrated.

Some people can't do it. Others can like it's nothing. It's not your fault, just who you are.
People ask how I know how to do this stuff and I say I learned it all online and played with legos as a kid. If you can follow the lego manuals (sometimes they are hard and don't include directions only pictures! lol) Then you can do your valve job.

I haven't ruined anyone's bike yet, so whatever I'm doing in the video must be OK.
I've done 6-7 valve jobs this year alone.
The info I am learning from it is awesome and amazing stuff to know! At the same time nobody is really here teaching me how to do it besides the manual and some online DIY's a few people wrote..

Every time somebody pays me to do their valves it's like they are paying me to gain motorcycle mechanic experience you get from motorcycle mechanic school. To me, it's fun! I can't turn it down.
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Old September 27th, 2011, 11:48 AM   #61
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Even the guy who replaced a good engine, and ruins good parts for no reason can do it.... (me).

It is definitely worth it IMO for virtually every hobbyist or commuter to learn to do their own valves... or at least do it with a buddy. I don't know how the folks in apartments do it, but I guess that is where it pays to have a buddy.

BTW: do NOT put thread-locker on the cam cap/journal bolts.... ask me how I know. OK, I'll just tell you. I misread the SM, and mistook the instruction on the bolts on the cams themselves (which we don't touch), with the cam cap/journal bolts. Fortunately no damage was done, but I did end up ordering new bolts the next time because it is REALLY EASY for sockets to slip on those bolt heads.... I don't know why they taper a tad toward the top (maybe to prevent over-torquing them?).
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Old September 30th, 2011, 01:06 AM   #62
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ninja250,
Just watched the first two videos, even though I'm only at 3000mi now. Thanks to your videos, I plan to do my own valve job when the time comes (probably end of next summer, more than likely.) Will report back when the time comes.

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Old September 30th, 2011, 02:11 AM   #63
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i mightve missed the sparkplug part. did you end up replacing the sparkplugs?
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Old September 30th, 2011, 05:29 AM   #64
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I don't remember if I did anymore on Jet's bike or not but I would recommend replacing them while you have them out as preventative maintenance.

You guys ever hear what an engine sounds like when a plug fails?
Makes you think all kinds of bad things are going on when you lose a cylinder.
(Remembers the old CRX and my car learnin' days)
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Old October 4th, 2011, 12:16 PM   #65
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We pulled them but Autozone was closed and I decided to replace them on my own later (practiced with the included spark plug tool from the factory tool kit).
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Old October 4th, 2011, 03:37 PM   #66
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Great video. Thanks for taking the time to help out. Just to answer some of the queations
Silicone in the corners of the valve cover gasket can't hurt. I like honda bond better. Clean and dry is key no mater what you use if anything.

NO you can't use a pre gen head on a new Ninja. The chain tensioner is built into the block of the first engines and part of the head on the new bike


I get shims from Cheap cycle parts.com just sayin and I do a lot of valve adjustments with the head off the bike.
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Old October 4th, 2011, 10:24 PM   #67
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I want a Ninja 250R engine to play with besides the one I have.
I also need to learn to weld so I can utilize it. hehe

These are fun little engines. Can't bare myself to get rid of my 250R.
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Old October 5th, 2011, 06:42 AM   #68
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Guys, I'm sorry.
I can't do the 12 hour valve adjustments anymore for $100.

I don't have the shims on hand.

If you guys want to refill my shim kit and then bring your bikes in when the shims arrive, I can do the 12 hour valve jobs.

I just don't have any more shims or money to order a bunch extras when they cost $11 ea.

Each bike could potentially use 8 shims which is $88 and I only charge you guys $100 for the valve jobs in 12 hours.

It's gonna start looking like 7 days in the garage plus money up front to order your shims from now on. Max $88 for shims and I will refund the difference if you didn't need all 8.
Have to cover my own ass. I Can't be paying to do your valves. lol

Unless you guys want to refill my shim kit, then I can do them in 12 hours again..
I'm not paying for it though up front. I don't have the capitol to keep all your shims on hand while making such profit margins on your valve jobs.

I am clear out of the four most used shim sizes for our ninjette.. but I can still do your valves if you want to leave your bike here while I order your shims that you pay for.

You are still safer having me do them than your local mechanic most likely.. and I'll still do them for $100, if you guys buy the shims.

Either that, or SoCal can chip in and refill my shim kit... and the days of the $100 12 hour valve job may continue.
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Old October 5th, 2011, 06:58 AM   #69
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If I had 10 of each of those four shim sizes I'd be back in business for a good long while but that's $440.


For what it's worth, I had 3 of each of those four sizes and it got me through 7 valve jobs at $100 each.

You guys can start figuring out some math from there.

I could potentially get through 21 valve jobs on $400 worth of shims bringing me $1700 after paying for the shims and doing all the work.


I just can't afford $440 worth of shims right now.
That is what a hefty refill of ten each of popular Ninjette sized shims will cost me.

I don't want to file anymore shims. Period. It seems to work but I don't want to do it anymore, just in case. CYA. Cover your ass. I don't want to get in trouble. I don't mind filed shims in my bikes but not for customers anymore. I won't do it.

Also any more valve jobs have to be accompanied by a waiver/consent form.
I can't be responsible if I do manage to ruin your engine on accident.
I'm broke and paying for a $15,000 super sport bike... You guys don't have anything to sue me for if you do want money from me.

On the bright side, who would bring their bikes to me anymore if I ruined one?
That would be the last thing I would want to do, ruin your valves and mess up my reputation as a valve job mechanic!

You guys can still bring your bikes for valves, but be aware there is now a shim waiting procedure and you have to pay for your shims now.


The guys who got out of here for $100 in 12 hours got lucky and a cheap break! haha.
It's still $100, but now you have to leave your bike a week and pay for your shims too.

I'll ask santa for a new shim kit and maybe I can do 12 hour valves again next year.
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Old October 5th, 2011, 07:09 AM   #70
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You can buy a whole kit with 130 shims in it for under $80 and please tell me the valve adjustment is not taking you 12 hours...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KAWAS...-/290562444776
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Old October 5th, 2011, 07:13 AM   #71
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Those shim sizes are not the sizes I need for your bikes. It may not cover them all. It only comes with three of each shim. You may need more of one size. (start filing)

Also, it takes me about 6-8 hours for a valve job. Start to finish.

I just like to tell you 12 hours to give myself headroom.
You're lucky I don't tell you a week or two. Like most shops would.

Trust me, I'm not trying to rip anyone off. I'm giving you guys a good deal.

Also, I believe the shim kit is out of stock from amazon. Maybe ebay still has them?

If I ordered the four sizes my shim kit is out of, 10 pieces each, it would cost me $440.
From cheap cycle parts.

But then I'd estimate I could complete another 20 or so valve jobs. $2000 income.
(lol that's it for 20 valve jobs? Dang I'm underpaid!)

Starting to see how this works?

As a garage, the shim kit won't work. I need shim kit refills. (lots of four particular sizes)
Otherwise you guys have to wait around a week and pay for shims. Like at a normal garage.
Either way in the long run I'm not charging you guys hardly anything for the work like I could be.
A shop will charge you at least 3 times as much for the work alone I have been told.
...and their work is questionable and done behind closed doors.
You can come and watch me do your valves and I provide hard numbers on paper when I am done. I'll even sport you a gatorade from my fridge and use of my restroom for the 6-8 hours.

PS..
Kevin Phreak got 16 shims from my kit last time for his 636.
$176 worth of shims and I only charged him $100 for the job, and then I broke a bolt on his engine that I pulled off my bike and replaced & cost me $20 to replace to my bike after shipping. lol

So I went -$100 on his valve job. Although, I don't mind because it was my first four cylinder valve job and I appreciated the experience. He had his bike back in 24 hours running much smoother.

I'm going very easy on you guys.

Otherwise you can take them to a shop or do them yourself. I provided you with the video!
(Happily shot myself in the foot there haha)
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Old October 5th, 2011, 07:22 AM   #72
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If I had 10 of each of those four shim sizes I'd be back in business for a good long while but that's $440.


For what it's worth, I had 3 of each of those four sizes and it got me through 7 valve jobs at $100 each.

You guys can start figuring out some math from there.

I could potentially get through 21 valve jobs on $400 worth of shims bringing me $1700 after paying for the shims and doing all the work.


I just can't afford $440 worth of shims right now.
That is what a hefty refill of ten each of popular Ninjette sized shims will cost me.

I don't want to file anymore shims. Period. It seems to work but I don't want to do it anymore, just in case. CYA. Cover your ass. I don't want to get in trouble. I don't mind filed shims in my bikes but not for customers anymore. I won't do it.
FYI. I believe these are the correct size shims. Much cheaper than ordering OEM Kawasaki shims.
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Old October 5th, 2011, 07:25 AM   #73
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Wow... I can't believe how much more stuff cost for you guys in Cali. My local dealer quoted me $175 for the adjustment plus shim cost. He did say if would take about a week to get it in though.

I ended up doing my own and paid less than $5 for the 2 shims I needed from my dealer.
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Old October 5th, 2011, 08:12 AM   #74
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FYI. I believe these are the correct size shims. Much cheaper than ordering OEM Kawasaki shims.
You are still paying nearly $70-$80 and it may not contain all the shims you needed.

What if you need 8 shims and the kit only has three of the eight you need?

Quote:
My local dealer quoted me $175 for the adjustment plus shim cost.
That is potentially another $88, depending on where you get the shims.
I wouldn't expect any of the moron dealers around here to stock them so I get them online.

I am also replacing spark plugs, flushing the radiator with new coolant and changing the oil and filter while I do the valve jobs. Add more cost for those expendables.. and the buckets of oil lining up in my garage.

Plus, do you trust your local dealer?

Trust me guys, I have this figured out and I'm making less than your garage on it while you wait/watch. Otherwise you can do them yourselves or have the dealers do them.

I don't make a good chunk of change doing it so it doesn't matter to me honestly.
It's a few extra bucks here and there is what it ends up being.

I can't pay you to do your valves.
If I continue the way I'm going, that is what will be happening.
Something has to give. You guys have to wait a week and buy your own shims if you want me to do your valves now, or refill my shim kit. A or B. Option C is somewhere else. I am not a free shim dispensary. I need particular sizes of shims for these bikes, not whole kits missing the possible amount of sizes I need.

I do lots of these valve jobs and this is the way things are shaping up to be.
I'm not trying to rip anyone.
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Old October 5th, 2011, 08:38 AM   #75
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Say I have to do valves on a 636 tomorrow but all I have is my shim kit.

What if I need 16 of the same size shim?

The shim kit has 3 of that size. I'm SOL for 13 more shims at $11 ea.. after already paying $80 for a shim kit! Ouch!

I only ask $100 for the valve job.

You guys have to buy the shims now.. and wait for them.

I don't gather anyone wants to put $400 into my shim kit. lol
I will recharge it when I can, but for now I am out of Ninjette sized shims.

This translates to one week turn around time and you pay for each shim you end up needing. Up to $88 max plus shipping.
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Old October 5th, 2011, 09:13 AM   #76
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Sounds like shim costs are ridiculous. We should find a way to order something like 50 of each common size and split them up into our own shim kits to divy up to the forumers.
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Old October 5th, 2011, 12:29 PM   #77
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Say I have to do valves on a 636 tomorrow but all I have is my shim kit.

What if I need 16 of the same size shim?

The shim kit has 3 of that size. I'm SOL for 13 more shims at $11 ea.. after already paying $80 for a shim kit! Ouch!

I only ask $100 for the valve job.

You guys have to buy the shims now.. and wait for them.

I don't gather anyone wants to put $400 into my shim kit. lol
I will recharge it when I can, but for now I am out of Ninjette sized shims.

This translates to one week turn around time and you pay for each shim you end up needing. Up to $88 max plus shipping.
Are there any local MC shops that have shims from services that you can bring in the old shims to and exchange them for the shims you need?
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Old October 5th, 2011, 12:49 PM   #78
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Don't you also gain a shim for every one you replace? It's basically a swap. I realize you'll still need to replenish some but I know I moved some of mine around so I didn't have to buy so many.

You not throwing the used ones away are you?
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Old October 5th, 2011, 01:38 PM   #79
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No, the old original shims basically end up useless after the first valve job. The valves on that bike wont go back to that clearance again until the bike is brand new or gets new valves.

On the bonus, the first valve job of a 636 seems to eat the shims that a ninja 250 craps out on it's first valve job.

I was able to do a 636 with left over Ninja 250 shims. Size 2.90 mostly and 2.95 and one 3.0 from my kit.

Lots of 2.95 and 2.90 come out of the ninja and it gets reduced to between 2.85 and 2.65.
Never back up to 2.95.

A good extensive shim kit could be worth a good amount of money to a garage.. but you may still need more of certain sizes if you do the same type of bike over and over. And you will end up with the same type of extras over and over.

I have a bunch of 2.95 laying around if anyone needs them, but they won't!
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Old October 5th, 2011, 07:47 PM   #80
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What sizes came out of the 636?
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