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Old November 13th, 2017, 11:20 PM   #1
Darksik
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Question doubt about carburetors

Hi guys, I have a question about the carburetors of my 2010 ninja 250R, I have this problem:


The motorcycle only works when the key is in "PRI" position, when I turn the key to "ON" the motorcycle works but starts to lower the revolutions until it gets to turn off and only turns on again until you turn the key back to "PRI".
The carburetors were washed 6 months ago.

Here in the forum they told me to connect it like the following image



But I was checking the manual and the only thing I could see is that the "air vacuum hoses" could be said to be connected as it comes in the manual, since it does not look like the hoses of the carburetors must be connected.

A mechanic told me that it could be that the "jet valves" installed them badly because when making a sudden movement and trying to accelerate at that moment, the motorcycle takes time to react and that they could stick

I no longer know whether to try to install the hoses as seen in the image or leave it like that.

What I did notice is that he spends more gasoline

PLEASE IF YOU CAN HELP ME I WILL BE VERY GRATEFUL WITH YOU GUYS
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Old November 14th, 2017, 12:25 AM   #2
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Old November 14th, 2017, 05:31 AM   #3
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Bummer David,

Let's apply some KY common sense to see if we can get you fixed up.

1. If your bike works just fine with the petcock set to the PRI position, then your carbs are fine
2. If your bike will not run right with the petcock set to the ON position, and slowly runs itself to the point of dying, then you're running the float bowls out of gas. You have a gas flow rate problem.
3. When the petcock is in the PRI position the petcock allows for a gravity feed fuel flow to the carbs, when the petcock is in the ON position, an applied vacuum force is required to allow fuel to flow.
4. And since you also asked about "hoses", I am pretty safe to assume that you may not have the vacuum line for the petcock attached in both places properly.

Things to check;

Vacuum hose quality and connections between carb and petcock
Your oil for contamination (gas in oil)
Fuel filter?

You can test petcock vacuum operation by removing the main fuel line from the carb (leave petcock attached) and putting the end in a cup. Attempt to start the bike, if no fuel comes out, you still have a vacuum problem or a faulty petcock. Whenever possible, test one system at a time, combine working systems to create larger ones...

Hope it something simple for ya, and good luck!
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Old November 14th, 2017, 08:40 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csmith12 View Post
Bummer David,

Let's apply some KY common sense to see if we can get you fixed up.

1. If your bike works just fine with the petcock set to the PRI position, then your carbs are fine
2. If your bike will not run right with the petcock set to the ON position, and slowly runs itself to the point of dying, then you're running the float bowls out of gas. You have a gas flow rate problem.
3. When the petcock is in the PRI position the petcock allows for a gravity feed fuel flow to the carbs, when the petcock is in the ON position, an applied vacuum force is required to allow fuel to flow.
4. And since you also asked about "hoses", I am pretty safe to assume that you may not have the vacuum line for the petcock attached in both places properly.

Things to check;

Vacuum hose quality and connections between carb and petcock
Your oil for contamination (gas in oil)
Fuel filter?

You can test petcock vacuum operation by removing the main fuel line from the carb (leave petcock attached) and putting the end in a cup. Attempt to start the bike, if no fuel comes out, you still have a vacuum problem or a faulty petcock. Whenever possible, test one system at a time, combine working systems to create larger ones...

Hope it something simple for ya, and good luck!
I bought another Petcock and the bike do the same, i discard the Petcock problem,
Maybe could be a bad connection yo the vacuum,
You think i can apply vacuum with a syringe?

Also You got your bike connected like the picture that i show? My bike is not the California model.
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Old November 14th, 2017, 08:49 AM   #5
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Why do you not want to fix your bike the correct way?
There is a purpose for every hose on that picture.
If you do not have every hose and every clamp installed as shown in picture, your bike will not work.

It’s like being pregnant, you either are or are not. There is no halfway.
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Old November 14th, 2017, 09:45 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JacRyann View Post
Why do you not want to fix your bike the correct way?
There is a purpose for every hose on that picture.
If you do not have every hose and every clamp installed as shown in picture, your bike will not work.

It’s like being pregnant, you either are or are not. There is no halfway.
I really want to fix, but I'm scared if maybe I break the bike or some worse

And how i was saying, in the owner's manual picture where appears the air vacuum system, the "T" is connected to one part of the carbs and to the petcock, and in the picture from this thread the "T" is connected in other place.

Jack you got your bike connected like the picture that is showed in this thread?
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Old November 14th, 2017, 10:38 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darksik View Post
You think i can apply vacuum with a syringe?
Redneck Tip #10487: You can use a 20oz plastic bottle with a hole drilled in the lid to create the vacuum. Drill hole just smaller than hose size, push in the hose, squeeze bottle. Never tried a syringe, sorry.

Mt. Dew bottles save the day again!
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Old November 14th, 2017, 12:05 PM   #8
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Can you post a photo of how your vacuum hose is attached to the carbs?

As others have mentioned, if it runs fine on "Prime" but not on "On" it suggests an issue with a lack of vacuum or a malfunctioning petcock.

The photo you posted is for a PreGen carb, and yours is a NewGen - so they won't be exactly the same.

You can test that you have vacuum by removing the hose from the petcock and plugging it temporarily. Set the petcock to "Prime". Then start the engine and let it idle. Remove the plug on the vacuum hose and quickly put you finger over it - you should feel a vacuum. If you remove your finger you should hear the engine RPMs change (and air rushing into the hose) and the engine may stall (not a problem).

If you get vacuum there it would suggest the petcock is the problem.
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Old November 14th, 2017, 12:16 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darksik View Post
Jack you got your bike connected like the picture that is showed in this thread?
yes, when I got my bike, I removed the carbs and removed every clamp and hose for cleaning. Then re-assembled using that picture as guide. Every hose has only two ends. Each end has only ONE correct location to install. I connect one end of hose, then the other end. Then next hose, one end at a time.


Quote:
And how i was saying, in the owner's manual picture where appears the air vacuum system, the "T" is connected to one part of the carbs and to the petcock, and in the picture from this thread the "T" is connected in other place.
ah, there’s the problem. There is NO “T” connection going to petcock. You have wrong picture or getting confused somehow.

Take snapshot of owner’s manual and post it here.
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Old November 14th, 2017, 01:35 PM   #10
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You can suck gently with your mouth and get enough vacuum to open a properly working petcock.
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Old November 14th, 2017, 04:04 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
Can you post a photo of how your vacuum hose is attached to the carbs?

As others have mentioned, if it runs fine on "Prime" but not on "On" it suggests an issue with a lack of vacuum or a malfunctioning petcock.

The photo you posted is for a PreGen carb, and yours is a NewGen - so they won't be exactly the same.

You can test that you have vacuum by removing the hose from the petcock and plugging it temporarily. Set the petcock to "Prime". Then start the engine and let it idle. Remove the plug on the vacuum hose and quickly put you finger over it - you should feel a vacuum. If you remove your finger you should hear the engine RPMs change (and air rushing into the hose) and the engine may stall (not a problem).

If you get vacuum there it would suggest the petcock is the problem.
Tomorrow in the morning i will disarm the bike because i need to go to the school and i post the picture of how is connected the fuel and vacuum hoses.

The problem must be a leack of the vacuum, because i bought another petcock and the bike does the same.
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Old November 14th, 2017, 05:02 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JacRyann View Post
yes, when I got my bike, I removed the carbs and removed every clamp and hose for cleaning. Then re-assembled using that picture as guide. Every hose has only two ends. Each end has only ONE correct location to install. I connect one end of hose, then the other end. Then next hose, one end at a time.


ah, there’s the problem. There is NO “T” connection going to petcock. You have wrong picture or getting confused somehow.

Take snapshot of owner’s manual and post it here.
Behind the hose NUMBER 4 there is the "T" that is connected to the vacuum of the petcock
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Old November 14th, 2017, 05:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JacRyann View Post
yes, when I got my bike, I removed the carbs and removed every clamp and hose for cleaning. Then re-assembled using that picture as guide. Every hose has only two ends. Each end has only ONE correct location to install. I connect one end of hose, then the other end. Then next hose, one end at a time.


ah, there’s the problem. There is NO “T” connection going to petcock. You have wrong picture or getting confused somehow.

Take snapshot of owner’s manual and post it here.
And this is the air vacuum system

In this picture show how is connected the air vacuum system look the NUMBER 6 is the same connected to the "T"
vacuum1

vacuum2
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Old November 14th, 2017, 09:57 PM   #14
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Pictures not visible. Do you have them set to public?
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Old November 14th, 2017, 11:12 PM   #15
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Pictures not visible. Do you have them set to public?
Yes i did it

i upload on microsoft onedrive public folder i hope can see the pictures

This two links show how the vacuum petcock is connected to the "T" and the "T" is connected to the air vacuum system

https://1drv.ms/i/s!AvFCTbetmiYkiG5j3WkIeWl462rN
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AvFCTbetmiYkiG1eDTyvaVT7V4sT

This two links show how must be connected the air vacuum system and the "T" appears

https://1drv.ms/i/s!AvFCTbetmiYkiHAYeTFnuKzuqmeV
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AvFCTbetmiYkiG9SPP6vOfIq66QM
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Old November 14th, 2017, 11:21 PM   #16
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Read the instructions and follow them exactly.
Nowhere in any of the instruction steps does it say “petcock”
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Old November 14th, 2017, 11:25 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darksik View Post
Behind the hose NUMBER 4 there is the "T" that is connected to the vacuum of the petcock
No, read the instructions here:
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AvFCTbetmiYkiG1eDTyvaVT7V4sT

It says “4. Fuel hose”
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Old November 14th, 2017, 11:29 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darksik View Post

This two links show how must be connected the air vacuum system and the "T" appears

https://1drv.ms/i/s!AvFCTbetmiYkiHAYeTFnuKzuqmeV
https://1drv.ms/i/s!AvFCTbetmiYkiG9SPP6vOfIq66QM
There is nothing here connected to petcock. Please red arrow pointing to T you are talking about.
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Old November 14th, 2017, 11:36 PM   #19
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You are confused. Let’s make this very simple.

there is only ONE hose you need to connect to make petcock work properly, forget EVERYTHING else



Connect ONE hose that’s labeled above “vacuum hose to petcock” to petcock’s side vacuum port. That’s it! Do not change anything else.

Last futzed with by JacRyann; November 15th, 2017 at 01:14 AM.
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Old November 15th, 2017, 11:30 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JacRyann View Post
You are confused. Let’s make this very simple.

there is only ONE hose you need to connect to make petcock work properly, forget EVERYTHING else

Connect ONE hose that’s labeled above “vacuum hose to petcock” to petcock’s side vacuum port. That’s it! Do not change anything else.
This is where is connected the vacuum of the petcock, so i move that vacuum hose and i don't connect nothing?

https://1drv.ms/i/s!AvFCTbetmiYkiHHPJIlS9gtWbAgp

Edit___________________

I found where is the vacuum from the petcock but now the problem that i see is the "coasting enricher vacuum hose" is connected to the "vacuum of the petcock" and where should be connected the petcock is not connected to anyplace

Last futzed with by Darksik; November 15th, 2017 at 12:59 PM. Reason: Planing
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Old November 15th, 2017, 01:12 PM   #21
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You are trying to do too much at once! Stop!!! Do just one thing at a time. You cannot fill both your flat tyres with air at the same time. Here’s what you are doing:

- reach for front tyre with air-hose, stop and say,”wait, my back tyre needs air too!”
- so you run to back tyre and reach to valve-stem, stop and say, “no, my front tyre needs air too!”
- then run back to front tyre, and as you are about to add air, “no, my back tyre needs air!”
- you run to back tyre, run to front tyre, back tyre, front tyre, etc.

Meanwhile, no progress is made with no air going into either tyre. Stop trying to do both at once! Same thing with carbs, there’s 6 HOSES that can be BADLY installed!

BAD: what you have now

GOOD:
1. Connect ONE hose that’s labeled “vacuum hose to petcock” to petcock’s side vacuum port.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.

You CANNOT fix it all at once! But you have to do ONE at a time to make any progress! Why are you resisting choosing GOOD over BAD & EVIL? If you do not choose GOOD, your bike will always run BADLY and EVIL things will happen:

- you will mysteriously find tin-foil in your microwave
- your kids will grow crooked teeth and need glasses
- your wife will suddenly gain 20-kgs !!!

Choose GOOD my friend! Take that first ONE step away from the dark side!


Last futzed with by JacRyann; November 15th, 2017 at 03:22 PM.
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Old November 15th, 2017, 03:31 PM   #22
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I think you are having difficulty matching up vacuum hoses you see on bike with pictures and diagrams. Best to remove carbs from your bike and take a picture of it like this, then match up hoses and where they go.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Darksik View Post
I found where is the vacuum from the petcock but now the problem that i see is the "coasting enricher vacuum hose" is connected to the "vacuum of the petcock" and where should be connected the petcock is not connected to anyplace
Note that there are TWO vacuum sources, one per carb. According to GOOD picture:

1. Where does hose for “coasting enricher vacuum hose” plug into?
2. Where does hose for “vacuum hose to petcock”plug into?

Also note that NOTHING should be plugged into “carb sync adjuster screw” like you had earlier.
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Old November 15th, 2017, 05:43 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Triple Jim View Post
You can suck gently with your mouth and get enough vacuum to open a properly working petcock.
That just sounds wrong.
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Old November 15th, 2017, 06:02 PM   #24
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Of course it does.
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Old November 15th, 2017, 06:03 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JacRyann View Post
I think you are having difficulty matching up vacuum hoses you see on bike with pictures and diagrams. Best to remove carbs from your bike and take a picture of it like this, then match up hoses and where they go.

Note that there are TWO vacuum sources, one per carb. According to GOOD picture:

1. Where does hose for “coasting enricher vacuum hose” plug into?
2. Where does hose for “vacuum hose to petcock”plug into?

Also note that NOTHING should be plugged into “carb sync adjuster screw” like you had earlier.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VaFish View Post
That just sounds wrong.
I almost finish and i just need to know if this hose is connected only on one side?

https://1drv.ms/i/s!AvFCTbetmiYkiHS03Ln6--aC71Ro

20171115_170045 by style95, en Flickr

https://1drv.ms/i/s!AvFCTbetmiYkiHMSMXu9e1IMV_-C

20171115_152316 by style95, en Flickr

You guys know what is the function of this hose?
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Old November 16th, 2017, 03:01 AM   #26
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That’s carb vent. You’re not supposed to touch it. How was it connected originally?

Yes, should be open. Aim towards back and go down to same area as other drain tubes for battery and crankcase.

Did you connect petcock vacuum line to proper port on carb? That’s the ONLY thing you want to do. More than ONE change can introduce errors that’s difficult to troubleshoot and undo.
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Old November 16th, 2017, 07:29 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Darksik View Post
I almost finish and i just need to know if this hose is connected only on one side?

https://1drv.ms/i/s!AvFCTbetmiYkiHS03Ln6--aC71Ro

20171115_170045 by style95, en Flickr


You guys know what is the function of this hose?
As JacRyann noted - that's just a vent hose that is routed down to the ground in the center of the cycle. It shouldn't have a clamp on the end because it doesn't connect to anything.

The open port in the photo at the bottom left (just above and to the right of your finger) is where the vacuum hose from petcock should connect. The other one (with your finger on it) goes to the coasting enrichener mounted on the side of the carb.
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Old November 16th, 2017, 07:51 PM   #28
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That’s carb vent. You’re not supposed to touch it. How was it connected originally?

Yes, should be open. Aim towards back and go down to same area as other drain tubes for battery and crankcase.
was upside, and i left in that position and i leave that hose connected but is face down, i hope that don't get any trouble

Quote:
Did you connect petcock vacuum line to proper port on carb? That’s the ONLY thing you want to do. More than ONE change can introduce errors that’s difficult to troubleshoot and undo
.

Yes i already connected the petcock vacuum and the "coasting enricher vacuum hose" how the picture shows, the bike runs great in "ON" position and also how my bike got a short exaust, the bike don't make alot explosions like the bike was connected before

Now i got another "problem" with the coolant, i think is leaking but idk where is leaking :/
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Old November 16th, 2017, 08:03 PM   #29
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Good job on the vacuum hose!

To track down coolant leak, clean off all the coolant hoses and clamps. So clean, you can eat off it. The idle the bike and look for drips.
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