Hill Starts

[bkh2]

Hi, I've been practicing with my bike in an parking lot that's mostly flat. There is one paved hill leading down to another field and I use that to practice my hill starts. I was able to start on that hill fairly easily, but when I tried on an actual street, I must have stalled like five times; it was bad.

I know that practice makes perfect, but are there any tips to help me not stall so much? haha

Also, I found out after all the stalls that I was in second gear. I guess one tip right off the bat would be to make sure you're in gear one. xD

[SteveL]

Come to a stop select first, hold on rear brake, when required increase RPM to around 5K and ease out the clutch let go of the rear brake and away you go no problem.

Steve

[Alex]

Yup - 2nd gear starts on a hill could be challenging. Make sure you're in first gear, and don't be afraid to use more gas and revs to get up and going. Don't slip the clutch excessively though, make sure to let it all the way out as soon as you can once you're moving.

[ichibunkid.206]

Originally Posted by Alex

Don't slip the clutch excessively though, make sure to let it all the way out as soon as you can once you're moving.

Alex, Question.....

I know with a manual transmission in a car you're not suppose to hold on a up-hill grade by riding, or slipping the clutch....

On the 250, or any bike for that matter... is it ok to hold the bike on an up-hill grade while say waiting for a stop light with the clutch partially out ?

[ninja250]

Power yourself right up them hills
Lots of RPM if necessary. Lean forward a bit too.

I have gotten out of some dirtbike trails with nothing but 4" boulders all over on steep inclines with the lil ninja and lots of RPM and determination!

[bkh2]

My understanding was that bikes have slipper clutches, which allow for slippage for gradual engagement of the clutch. My fear is that if i crank the RPM's, I'll get launched when I release the rear brakes. I suppose that just means I need to practice more clutch control and get more familiar with the friction zone of my bike.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by bkh2

My understanding was that bikes have slipper clutches, which allow for slippage for gradual engagement of the clutch.

Not exactly. Many bikes have wet clutches (including ours), which means the clutch plates are bathed in the same oil that is running through the engine. This both lubricates the clutch a bit and keeps it cooler, and allows for more slipping before any clutch damage would occur. Dry clutches are much less forgiving when slipping the clutch, and very quickly heat up and can fail if misused. All clutches have to slip a bit when engaging, that's how they work as the bike (or car) engages, otherwise there would be no way to connect a running engine to a stationary vehicle's wheels.

"Slipper clutch" is a different term altogether, and is a special mechanism in the clutch design that allows the rear wheel to turn faster than the drivetrain. This smooths downshifts, and keeps the engine's inertia from locking up the rear wheel. A slipper clutch mechanism can be on either a wet clutch design or a dry clutch design, it isn't related.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by ichibunkid.206

On the 250, or any bike for that matter... is it ok to hold the bike on an up-hill grade while say waiting for a stop light with the clutch partially out ?

Not a great idea on a bike either.

[Francis]

Originally Posted by bkh2

My understanding was that bikes have slipper clutches, which allow for slippage for gradual engagement of the clutch. My fear is that if i crank the RPM's, I'll get launched when I release the rear brakes. I suppose that just means I need to practice more clutch control and get more familiar with the friction zone of my bike.

Our bikes won't send us flying. I've tried..

or maybe I just suck at take offs...

[ninja250]

Lean forward and it won't wheelie. lol
I don't use the rear brake unless I'm in the dirt or see oil patch at a stop light.

[Apollo626]

Originally Posted by ninja250

Lean forward and it won't wheelie. lol
I don't use the rear brake unless I'm in the dirt or see oil patch at a stop light.

I tend to use the rear brake like a hey-dummy-I'm-about-to-slow-down button for drivers behind me. I usually tap it once or twice to flash my brake light before I start slowing with the front brake.

[bkh2]

I've been practicing hill starts with your guys' tips. I think I've got the hang of it now! Haven't stalled once since haha. The main thing I had to overcome was the fear to give it more gas. However, thinking I was a hot shot, I went out onto one of the streets near my house that's maybe only 2/3 as steep as the hill I practiced on. As you probably guessed, I ended up stalling the bike.

Even though the road had no cars on it, I think I got a little frazzled and forgot the basics. Should I keep practicing on the parking lot or start getting more familiar with being on the road? btw, the streets around my house are really quiet, since it's near a school and school is not in session in the summer.

[SVBS]

1. you can brake with the rear, when you feel the clutch engage, let go of rear brake
2. one finger front brake, don't squeeze too hard, just enough where you feel the bike stop rolling backward

yea, definitely practice in an empty parking lot

[Fridaynight]

I used to have a huge problem with this. Huge as in a drop and a crash. After the crash I didn't ride until I fixed the damage ($450 and a month later, ouch), and then I realized that my problem was a combination of not enough throttle and releasing the clutch too fast.
Since then I've got 4,200 miles more on the bike with no stalling or drops. Just give it plenty of throttle and be nice and slow/gentle with the clutch (while using the rear brake to keep yourself still until you can do the rest fast enough).

[PsychoNinja]

Originally Posted by SVBS

1. you can brake with the rear, when you feel the clutch engage, let go of rear brake
2. one finger front brake, don't squeeze too hard, just enough where you feel the bike stop rolling backward

yea, definitely practice in an empty parking lot

+100

[OGjackafidy]

Just keep practicing and have confidence. After you feel comfortable with your clutch and gain that confidence switching gears will be a breeze and you will be amazed at the amount of control you have compared to an automatic car. A few weeks and it will be second nature

[rockNroll]

Originally Posted by ichibunkid.206

Alex, Question.....

I know with a manual transmission in a car you're not suppose to hold on a up-hill grade by riding, or slipping the clutch....

On the 250, or any bike for that matter... is it ok to hold the bike on an up-hill grade while say waiting for a stop light with the clutch partially out ?

No, that's not how you do it in a car. No it's not ok to do it with a bike. Yes, I know I'm not Alex

[rockNroll]

I only use the rear brake if I want to take my hands off the controls while I wait at the stop.
Use the front brake to hold the bike on the hill. It takes very little brake pressure to hold the bike there. Raise the rpms' and let the clutch lever start to release. When the bike starts to want to move, release the front brake and then go on about your business fully releasing the clutch and giving throttle, just like usual. The bike isn't rolling with the front brake applied, you're releasing it as soon as you feel the bike want to move forward.. it seems almost instant.

[Lil_Green_Demon]

If you've driven a manual transmission car, it's pretty similar. Just gently let go of the clutch until you feel its friction point. You can also hold down on the rear brake and gently roll the throttle.

[rockNroll]

Originally Posted by Lil_Green_Demon

If you've driven a manual transmission car, it's pretty similar. Just gently let go of the clutch until you feel its friction point. You can also hold down on the rear brake and gently roll the throttle.

Learn to do it properly, without the rear brake. You might/probably will eventually run into a situation where you need that right foot to be on the ground and you'll be in a pickle.

[avneet]

Figured I'd add how I've tried it and see if people think it is right or wrong. For smaller inclines, I slowly start releasing the front brake while simultaneously letting the clutch go into the friction zone. I've noticed I can either keep the bike still like this or even get it to start walking forward. The rest if just adding throttle and releasing the clutch.

I usually just hold the rear brake and do it that way, but I tried it many times that way too. Seems to work either way. This way can help if for some reason the person can't balance the bike solely on the left leg (maybe incline partly goes to the left side and the person is short so bike would lean too far and fall over).

[TBC]

I haven't been riding long, but in a hilly area this is something I've been doing quite a bit (that is, starting on hills). Here's what I've been doing:

1.) Hold the bike in place with the front brake, both feet on the ground.
2.) Slowly give throttle
3.) Release the clutch into the friction zone
4.) Let go of the front brake as you feel the clutch start to engage

Is there anything wrong with that? Just thinking through it - the only issue I see is possibly burning the rear tire on the pavement, but that should never happen unless you're gun-ho on the throttle?

[rockNroll]

Originally Posted by TBC

I haven't been riding long, but in a hilly area this is something I've been doing quite a bit (that is, starting on hills). Here's what I've been doing:

1.) Hold the bike in place with the front brake, both feet on the ground.
2.) Slowly give throttle
3.) Release the clutch into the friction zone
4.) Let go of the front brake as you feel the clutch start to engage

Is there anything wrong with that? Just thinking through it - the only issue I see is possibly burning the rear tire on the pavement, but that should never happen unless you're gun-ho on the throttle?

You're doin it right

[TBC]

Originally Posted by rockNroll

You're doin it right

Evidently not . On my ride today I paused at a stop sign on a fairly steep hill in front of a bunch of high school football jocks. Took me a good four of five stalls before I actually got going . Had to rev the thing up to a good 6-7k before it wouldn't stall, but got a good round of applause when I made it!

I need more practice, but I'm glad to hear that the technique at least is right!

[bkh2]

I've gotten better at hill starts as well. Something that may help is holding yourself stationary on a hill with just throttle and clutch. So say you're on a steep hill at a red light. When you see the other direction's light turn yellow, give it some gas and slightly engage the clutch while releasing the rear brake (and/or front) until you can hold yourself stationary. Then once your light turns green, give it a little more gas. Once you get going a little, you can slowly fully engage the clutch. Just be careful that you don't do this too soon before you want to go because it's bad for your bike. Once you get good, you can basically skip the step where you find the balance between throttle and clutch to keep you stationary, and be able to take off from a stop right away.

[GateKeeper]

1.) Hold the bike in place with the front brake, both feet on the ground.
2.) Slowly give throttle
3.) Release the clutch into the friction zone
4.) Let go of the front brake as you feel the clutch start to engage

5.) add more throttle, and release the clutch

your probably stalling because the load to get the bike is greater than what the engine is putting out, add throttle, and you should be good

[TBC]

Originally Posted by GateKeeper

5.) add more throttle, and release the clutch

your probably stalling because the load to get the bike is greater than what the engine is putting out, add throttle, and you should be good

The problem for me is that my bike jumps through the friction zone pretty fast. Once the clutch "catches" the bike stalls. I think I got out of it by giving it a lot of throttle initially, but it really caught me by surprise with how much I needed to give it (without trying to rocket away, of course).

[TheTopher]

Originally Posted by rockNroll

I only use the rear brake if I want to take my hands off the controls while I wait at the stop.
Use the front brake to hold the bike on the hill. It takes very little brake pressure to hold the bike there. Raise the rpms' and let the clutch lever start to release. When the bike starts to want to move, release the front brake and then go on about your business fully releasing the clutch and giving throttle, just like usual. The bike isn't rolling with the front brake applied, you're releasing it as soon as you feel the bike want to move forward.. it seems almost instant.

[tsiratiug]

I live in a very hilly area. As I come to a complete stop and I'm in first gear, I put my left foot down and hold the rear brake with my right foot. As I open the throttle and hit the friction zone with the clutch lever I lift my right foot off the rear brake lever and I'm moving. I have to do this dozens of times every time I go out. Like I said, lots and lots of hills - steep ones. I'm sure I'll stall it one day but so far, no stalls using this method.

[TBC]

Originally Posted by tsiratiug

Like I said, lots and lots of hills - steep ones. I'm sure I'll stall it one day but so far, no stalls using this method.

Three stalls on my ride today. I'm getting better, I swear!

[OGjackafidy]

i just pop it out to the friction zone give it 6k and slowly release from there. no brake needed

[NDspd]

Originally Posted by TBC

Evidently not . On my ride today I paused at a stop sign on a fairly steep hill in front of a bunch of high school football jocks. Took me a good four of five stalls before I actually got going . Had to rev the thing up to a good 6-7k before it wouldn't stall, but got a good round of applause when I made it!

I need more practice, but I'm glad to hear that the technique at least is right!

Don't worry about adding too much throttle, I mean do go 13K and do it. But, you're doing just fine, practice makes perfect.

Even with the corvette I drive, I have to add a good amount of gas to get it going.

[Havok]

Originally Posted by GateKeeper

1.) Hold the bike in place with the front brake, both feet on the ground.
2.) Slowly give throttle
3.) Release the clutch into the friction zone
4.) Let go of the front brake as you feel the clutch start to engage

5.) add more throttle, and release the clutch

your probably stalling because the load to get the bike is greater than what the engine is putting out, add throttle, and you should be good

this.

[wardie]

Here's my take on how to take off on a hill for newer rider. When you come to a stop put your left (clutch side) foot down and hold the front brake momentarily until you can rock your right (throttle side) foot up on your arch so as to put downward pressure with your toe on the rear brake lever. Once you have actuated the rear brake with your foot release the front brake. You should have a feel for the timing of the traffic lights and when you think it's just about to go green slowly slip the clutch lever until you just start to feel the clutch start to grab (barely). As the light turns green roll the throttle while easing the clutch lever applying slightly more throttle as you are letting the clutch out. Once you start forward release the rear brake. Although this may be contrary to what everyone else has said (and I don't disagree just respect) I feel for a newer rider it is easier not to have to release front brake and throttle almost simultaneously. Just worry about throttle in right hand and clutch in left hand. You will almost automatically release the brake becuase of the arching forward manner in which I asked you to apply the brake. After you are comfortable with this technique then you can move to using front brake technique. Good luck and be aware of what is going on around you when riding. JMOO