ninjette.org

Go Back   ninjette.org > General > General Motorcycling Discussion

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 4th, 2023, 08:11 PM   #81
Bob KellyIII
Retired motorcycle Mc.
 
Bob KellyIII's Avatar
 
Name: Robert
Location: Weed, California.
Join Date: Jul 2021

Motorcycle(s): 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2021 CSC TT250, 1977 Triumph Bonneville 750cc,2001 Honda XR650L.

Posts: A lot.
Ok... I got the carbs on and hooked up and finally got it fired up... and it runs great !
I haven't ran it long enough to see if it's perfect yet but it feels alot better than it did before..... there is only one problem it's leaking gas from both carb over flows !
the float level is set too high ! ... I find that odd because Gordon just replaced them
but that is what it is doing I tapped the bowls with a hammer to giggle the floats inside and get them to quit over flowing but that didn't do anything.... it is still leaking from both carbs....
but it does take throttle and very well too even when it is cold which it never did before
so that seams to be fixed ! .....Well done Gordon !!!!
but I can't have them leaking out all the gas either, so the carbs have to come back off
.... that should be a minor adjustment really....and not that big of a deal.
.... once I finally got gas to flow from my acc gas tank and filled the carbs the bike started right up ! and it takes throttle easily smoothly like it should....
so it sounds right !!!!! I haven't even adjusted the fuel/air screws yet !
just turned on the choke and hit the starter and it's running.... that is how it SHOULD BE !!!!!
.....
we'll see what a bit of tinkering does now.... I am hoping the float valves will fix themselves I've seen that happen many times before so it's possible they just need a good shaking !
....
Bob.....
__________________________________________________
Its too late when you've gone too far !
Bob KellyIII is offline   Reply With Quote




Old May 5th, 2023, 10:13 PM   #82
Bob KellyIII
Retired motorcycle Mc.
 
Bob KellyIII's Avatar
 
Name: Robert
Location: Weed, California.
Join Date: Jul 2021

Motorcycle(s): 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2021 CSC TT250, 1977 Triumph Bonneville 750cc,2001 Honda XR650L.

Posts: A lot.
I went back out there the next morning and took a Hammer and tapped the carb bowls
good turned on the gas and had no leaks......
but I am not positive gas is flowing yet but it should be....
it ran fairly good for a bit then died and wouldn't re start....
so I went in to the house to think about it... and gave up !
....
Bob.....
__________________________________________________
Its too late when you've gone too far !

Last futzed with by Bob KellyIII; May 6th, 2023 at 02:53 AM.
Bob KellyIII is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 6th, 2023, 02:54 AM   #83
Bob KellyIII
Retired motorcycle Mc.
 
Bob KellyIII's Avatar
 
Name: Robert
Location: Weed, California.
Join Date: Jul 2021

Motorcycle(s): 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2021 CSC TT250, 1977 Triumph Bonneville 750cc,2001 Honda XR650L.

Posts: A lot.
I posted this on another thread sense I have 2 of them going.... getting this thing to run right again has taken the better part of a year ! ....
....

Ok.... This time it went according to plan....
at 12:15 am I went out there to the shop and poked a hole in the Aux gas tank lid, put it back on and turned on the gas... and gas flowed into the carbs and filled them up
and no over flow or anything like that... I turned on the choke and key and hit the starter and it turned through about 3 times and fired right up I had to lower the idle because I had it way up because I didn't realise it was running out of gas ! DUH !
anyway... i took the choke off and it idled great I turned the fuel air screws open about 3/4 turn each and left them at that ...I did notice the RPM gain slightly while doing that
I turned the throttle and the RPM gained like it should with no bog or anything
being late at night I didn't want to make alot of noise but it reved to 6k RPM easily and smoothly....
....
IT WORKS FINALLY !!!!!
now I just have to put it all back together !
....
Thank you Gordon you do great work even if I don't ! but I did get it going correctly again.... testing it on the road is to come but I am fairly certain by the sound of it it will be far superior to how it ran before all this fiasco !
....she fought me every inch of the way ! but clean living and perseverance prevailed !
HAHAHAHAH (and a great Carb man in Ducattiman, his work made this possible! )
thanks Gordon "You Da MAN !"
.....

How about that.... it actually works again.... I've fought it for so long I was beginning to wonder if it ever would work again.... that's one Hard bike to work on !
.....
Bob........
__________________________________________________
__________________________________________________
Its too late when you've gone too far !
Bob KellyIII is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 6th, 2023, 02:58 AM   #84
Shafer
ninjette.org member
 
Name: Jay
Location: Nh
Join Date: Aug 2022

Motorcycle(s): 07 Ninja ex250 blue and 07 Ninja black

Posts: 133
That's awesome! I'm glad you got it going!!!!
Shafer is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 6th, 2023, 03:14 AM   #85
Bob KellyIII
Retired motorcycle Mc.
 
Bob KellyIII's Avatar
 
Name: Robert
Location: Weed, California.
Join Date: Jul 2021

Motorcycle(s): 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2021 CSC TT250, 1977 Triumph Bonneville 750cc,2001 Honda XR650L.

Posts: A lot.
YAH ME TOO ! it's been a long time coming ! all this work for a valve setting and carb cleaning.... geez I can do that on the XR650L in a DAY ! it's actually kind'a silly
but the bike sure looks cool ! HAHAHAH!
.....
Now it's re assembling the bloody thing ! then I can take it out for a spin....
....that means the fill tank for the radiator, brackets for the lines, and the right and left fairings.... as well as the front fender well cover.... then it should be ready to rock.
and I still need to get the air box on there connected properly which last time gave me fits they did not want to go on.
but that's for another day, as I am done working on that thing for a while...
I haven't even started the Triumph this year yet !
....
Bob........
__________________________________________________
Its too late when you've gone too far !
Bob KellyIII is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 8th, 2023, 06:24 AM   #86
Bob KellyIII
Retired motorcycle Mc.
 
Bob KellyIII's Avatar
 
Name: Robert
Location: Weed, California.
Join Date: Jul 2021

Motorcycle(s): 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2021 CSC TT250, 1977 Triumph Bonneville 750cc,2001 Honda XR650L.

Posts: A lot.
the next day I went out to the shop and started the bike.... let it warm up for probably 2~3 minutes.... giving it gas every once in a while while it warmed up and took off the choke....
once I could feel the heat start coming off the cylinders with my hand I revved it up and
it got to 6k RPM and stumbled like it dropped a cylinder or something I gave it more throttle and it pushed through it.... let it idle again and then gave it throttle and again at 5~6K RPM it struggled, ran poorly and kept running like that at that RPM
increasing the throttle some raised the RPM enough to where it cleared out and ran good. ....
so it is not right yet..... at 5~6,000 RPM there is a flat spot still.... by 7,000RPM your out of it and it runs great.... and above 4,000RPM it starts running funny.... it feels like it is lean.... there is no smoke so I don't think it is too much fuel, so I am thinking it is lean in that area....
that so happens to be the area where the throttle valve cut away, and the jet needle
both come into effect on the fuel mixture...
I had Gordon install 2 shims under each needle ( after much discussion with him) which is probably why it runs as good as it does....but it is not correct YET...
.... my question is has anyone ever put in 3 shims on the ninja 250 before... as that is what I am thinking I need to do.....
.....
Bob........
__________________________________________________
Its too late when you've gone too far !
Bob KellyIII is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 9th, 2023, 03:04 PM   #87
Bob KellyIII
Retired motorcycle Mc.
 
Bob KellyIII's Avatar
 
Name: Robert
Location: Weed, California.
Join Date: Jul 2021

Motorcycle(s): 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2021 CSC TT250, 1977 Triumph Bonneville 750cc,2001 Honda XR650L.

Posts: A lot.
I Think I may have found the problem.... the air screws !
stock settings do not work here at my elevation.... 3500+ ft. ASL .... I know that so I already opened up the airscrews a bit.... hard to say how much I opened them up though
as it's near impossable to keep the screwdriver tip in the slot and turn it too....
anyway I fired up the bike ( which it will not even start if the airscrews are set to factory settings) and thought about it.... because it was still running really poorly at mid range
(at least that part was the same/consistent) and I thought I wonder if the airscrews are too lean a setting? so I got out the tool while it was idling and warming up...
and I opened up the right cylinder airscrew a full turn at least.... maybe more.
gave it the throttle and it revved up to 9,000 RPM without stumbling in mid range...
I did it again and again no problems... I opened up the left cylinders airscrew by about 3/4 turn or so.... and tried it and there was no hesitation in mid range at all !
....
NO one has ever mentioned that the airscrews being adjusted wrong will cause a flat spot in mid range.... but I am here to tell you they will !
she was getting warm and antifreeze was being spit out the over flow because I don't have the over flow container on it so I turned it off to cool down....
..... it may well be my altitude here that makes the carbs react so harshly to being misadjusted.... but i am really supprised that it took away the flat spot in mid range !
....
at last check the bike ran great through the entire RPM range but I will not be supprised if when I start it again it does something else really weird ....
....
who would have thought it's just air screws ? Not me that is for sure !
now I need to do an honnest airscrew adjustment like I did after my carb cleaning 3 years ago.... kill one cylinder and adjust for highest idle, and switch and do the other cylinder. I haven't done that sense I got the carbs back from Gordon....I have been guessing and sense it idled I figured it was close enough.... but not with these carbs it isn't ! ...
....
it makes sense that the airscrew adjustment effects the RPM range all the way through wide open throttle.... it's a certain amount of fuelthat mostly matters at isle and just barely opening the throttle.... but it still works over the entire range of RPM....
so if the carb is actually poorly designed and runs lean at mid range the airscrew adjustment would indeed effect it alot..... so I'll say it...the carbs on the Ninja SUK !
not only are they poorly designed so that it takes a master to clean them properly
but their atomization range was so poorly designed that the engine will not run right
if the air screws are not perfect.... I have never ran into that with any other carb. EVER
.... I would think that replacing the carbs is a standard procedure for a racer because these carbs do not do their job very well.
....
unbelievable.... now I am just hoping that it runs as good as it did when I turned it off
when I start it again.... because this bike has not been consistent ...every time I start it it runs differently !...... but maybe I found it ? I can hope!LOL
....
Bob......
__________________________________________________
Its too late when you've gone too far !
Bob KellyIII is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 12th, 2023, 04:05 PM   #88
Bob KellyIII
Retired motorcycle Mc.
 
Bob KellyIII's Avatar
 
Name: Robert
Location: Weed, California.
Join Date: Jul 2021

Motorcycle(s): 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2021 CSC TT250, 1977 Triumph Bonneville 750cc,2001 Honda XR650L.

Posts: A lot.
I took a few days off from the ninja out of necessity.... she was getting to me !
so after a break I went out there today and fired it up and it ran like doo doo.....
had a big flat spot in mid range and didn't want to get past it.... so I figured I would let it warm up while I put back on the water reservoir... after a few minutes idling there she started acting better.... the flat spot was almost gone.... reached down and put my hand on the cylinders and they were barely warm at all.... so I figured it needed to warm up more..... I piddled around and did a few other things and decided to put the air cleaner back on the back of the carbs.... from that point on it ran great.... evedently it NEEDS some restriction to run properly !!!! .... burrying the throttle at idle got it to rev to 9k rpm without a hint of flatness in mid range then.... then I noticed the idle was right at 2k RPM so I lowered it a bit to around 800 RPM.... tested it a few more times to 9k RPM and it never balked once perfect every time.... this bike has to be warm to run right !
so I turned it off and started putting it back together properly....
my plan is to get it all the way back together except the fairings and then go take it for a good ride... and see how it reacts under a load..... i think it will be fine although it might be soft on acceleration around mid range but as long as there is no flat spot I am going to call it good enough ! .....
I will wait to do a plug color check till after a good run as it will give me a false reading doing just stationary stuff...
.... My Conclusion is this.... this bike is designed to run so lean to meat California's EPA crap that if you change the exhaust muffler you will screw it all up ! god forbid if you change the air box or anything else the muffler alone is enough to cause you grief !
I think they Very Poorly designed the carbs simply because they are so hard to clean and get them actually clean... so extream methods have to be used to get them clean
and then there is the mid range issue.... if the air screws are adjusted too lean
it will have a flat spot at mid range..... ( so if you have a flat spot in mid range after cleaning your carbs look there first... these are not set them by factory specks and your done with them) personally I think the slow speed jets in the carbs may well be too small on this bike.... which may well be the biggest cause of the problems with the air screws too. but they should be stock...the main jets were, so it's a logical conclusion that no one has changed them in the past.
that and my Altitude probably add to the problems as you go up in altitude there is less barometric pressure to help push the fuel through the jets... this means they should be a tad bigger.... to work the same as at sea level.
I think the 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250R is a marval of engineering in and of itself However they cut it so fine that the fuel air ratio going in to the cylinders is balanced on a razor's edge..... add a flow through muffler to the mix and you tip it over the razors edge into having problems like flat spots .... that is pirty bazaar if you ask me !
I have never ran into this kind of a problem with any other bike in my life... and if this is what new technology offers I don't want it ! it's too finicky !.....
having learned about this bike through this proccess and all I did was do a valve check and have the carbs cleaned by someone that Knows what they are doing .... and them all these problems crop up.... it's probably the first time the carbs have been truely clean sense the bike was sold..... but such a simple task that has taken almost 4 months to fix is silly beyond words.... no bike is worth that ! not even a ninja !
so I will probably sell the little monster in the near future while the carbs are still clean
....because I do not want to have to work on that thing I enjoy working on bikes but that one you can't work on it easily.... there is no room to work on anything on it
it takes 2 men and a small boy just to get the carbs Out..... it's silly when I can have the carbs off the Triumph 750 in 10 minutes while it takes a day just for me to get down to them..... on the ninja ..... so I have come to the conclusion although it is a great bike it is Not for me.... I do think I will sell it !
.....
Bob.......
__________________________________________________
Its too late when you've gone too far !
Bob KellyIII is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 13th, 2023, 06:05 AM   #89
ducatiman
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
ducatiman's Avatar
 
Name: Gordon
Location: new york
Join Date: Sep 2009

Motorcycle(s): '95 DUCATI 900SS/SP '07 DUCATI SS800 '19 HONDA CBR650R

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Nov '18, Mar '17
predict you'll change your tune and keep it
__________________________________________________
gordon@customcarbservices.com
Custom Carb Service
www.customcarbservices.com
ducatiman is online now   Reply With Quote


Old May 13th, 2023, 07:26 AM   #90
Bob KellyIII
Retired motorcycle Mc.
 
Bob KellyIII's Avatar
 
Name: Robert
Location: Weed, California.
Join Date: Jul 2021

Motorcycle(s): 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2021 CSC TT250, 1977 Triumph Bonneville 750cc,2001 Honda XR650L.

Posts: A lot.
You might be right.... it's not like I can replace it with something else
so in that regard it would be silly ... I have 3 bikes now and another bike that is the Kids
....but I know for a certainy if I get rid of anyone of them it will not be replaced...so that
in and of itself is a major deturant to selling one.... I went 4 years without a bike after the ranch burned down and took my 13 running motorcycles with it....and I do not want to be without a bike again.... no matter what !
...so .... I really don't want to sell it.... it took too long to get it ! but I really do hate working on that bloody thing ! ....and I can't afford to put it in the shop...nore would I if I could ! .... But I have to admit My Mechanic-ing ain't what it once was... and I need something simple ..... like the XR650L nothing complicated about that bike but the SPEEDO I put on it ! HAHAHA ! which I have not tested yet to see if it really works
because I have been working on the Ninja.....
... I dunno.... really ... I'm un-decided actually.
if my Kid wants it I'll definitely keep it.... it is a great small freeway cruiser...
but I can't get the kid to ride the TT250 yet and it's been over a year..... it's like why did I bother ? Sigh !
oh well...... such is life that's how it goes, first your money then your clothes !
...
it's definitely spring time here now all the apple trees are in bloom ! soon the only way to get cool will be to ride !
....
Bob.......
__________________________________________________
Its too late when you've gone too far !
Bob KellyIII is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 15th, 2023, 08:57 AM   #91
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
As with most modern technologies, everything is highly optimised tuned system for maximum performance. You won't find any other 250 engine with as much power, except maybe ZX-25R 4-cylinder. You change any part of system and it'll have cascading effect on entire system.

Airbox is not restrictive, but provides flow straightening for laminar-flow and more power than without. It's same size as on my CBR600RR, which has 4x the power and 4x flow volume. So definitely not restrictive. Many decades-old ideas takes many generations to change.

If you search for "pod filters" here, pretty much every post will be about people searching for factory airbox because their bike just doesn't run right without it.
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 15th, 2023, 11:24 AM   #92
Bob KellyIII
Retired motorcycle Mc.
 
Bob KellyIII's Avatar
 
Name: Robert
Location: Weed, California.
Join Date: Jul 2021

Motorcycle(s): 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2021 CSC TT250, 1977 Triumph Bonneville 750cc,2001 Honda XR650L.

Posts: A lot.
Yes that seems to be the case here.... one change causing a cascade of screwups ! things that are just not perfect any more..... as with a 250cc motor making about 32hp that in itself is completely amazing ! more power than the 350cc bikes I grew up with !
what impresses me about this bike is it's handling and freeway ability I can cruise at 75 with it with ease and I am not even near red line...especially with the steeper gearing I put on it.... but as for a long haul motorcycle the cumfort is siverly lacking... but I suppose if I had grown up on riding crotch rockets that would be normal to me but it's not..... I know what it's like to be so comfortable as to almost fall asleep riding a bike
and that is not a crotch rocket thing !
I went out and fired up the XR650L a few minutes ago and she fired right up as usual
and it hasn't been started in at least a week.... that is a good sign !
I should take it for a ride, but I don't have that much energy to burn today as I have been doing yard maintenance trying to get the place looking nice after winter.
....I put on a smaller sprocket on the XR650L and I am re-thinking that move I think I would like to cruse at 70~75 MPH with it without it reving so High.... it's no where the red line I am sure but it is turning a good clip at 70mph..... so I don't know I haven't tried the 15T sprocket on it yet I put the small one on 13T i think it was... and I really like the power from it.... but I might find that the 15T is just as strong.... I guess I won't know till I try it ! LOL
....
Bob.......
__________________________________________________
Its too late when you've gone too far !
Bob KellyIII is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 15th, 2023, 02:19 PM   #93
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
Even with large bikes, bigger isn't aways better. Even people with good mechanical abilities don't always grasp the intricacies of opimised systems. Putting bigger airbox and larger inlet trumpets on VFR actually lost power!

https://www.vfrdiscussion.com/index....omment-1152382


Yeah, on my 250 pre-gen commuter, I put +2t sprocket in front for more relaxed cruising. Had to use new-gen sprocket cover for chain clearance.
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 16th, 2023, 12:39 AM   #94
Bob KellyIII
Retired motorcycle Mc.
 
Bob KellyIII's Avatar
 
Name: Robert
Location: Weed, California.
Join Date: Jul 2021

Motorcycle(s): 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2021 CSC TT250, 1977 Triumph Bonneville 750cc,2001 Honda XR650L.

Posts: A lot.
LOL My Dad grew up building Hot Rods and it was like there wasn't a part that you could add to an engine back then in the 1950's that didn't help develop more HP... and as the technology developed so did the hop up parts... I remember seeing a Chrome flat
head V-8 with 8 vertical velocity stacks sticking straight up and it idled like a angry tiger.
they would go through a set of rear tires in a week with that coup especially if Mom was driving.... she had no restraint ! Dad said just touch the throttle and the rear tires would bark ! although that was about the time I was born, my sister grew up in that car....but now days modifying a car for more power is Not so straight forward ...You really have to know your parts ....and what they will do !
and it's the same with Bikes ! although I think the bikes lead the way to higher performance for cars... and cars lagged behind for decades but the bikes got scary fast!
it seemed like over night they went from 70hp to 235hp and to me that was like 235hp!
you can't possibly use that much hp on a bike ! I was working in a motorcycle shop in the Dalles Oregon, and I tuned my first H2 Kawasaki Trippel 750cc.... I spent most of the day getting that baby perfect... took it out for a test run and I could not believe how strong that thing was..... that was the only time I rode a bike that pulled so hard it was opening up my grip on the handle bars...and I had a very strong grip !
I wanted one of those every sense that day just for Kicks ! LOL....and that was just 72hp !.... and then the crotch rockets appeared.... and 120hp was pirty much standard
for a few years..... but I never got into them as I didn't like the riding position.
.....
Anyway..... I went out and fired up the Ninja today as it has warmed up and she started on the first revolution.... and purred like a kitten even while cold....
I am getting a small lean spot in mid range when it is cold... as I get a backfire everyonce in a while on deceleration.... other than that she is running really good
and it's ran like that for at least 3 times now....
I am uncertain how to richen up the 4~5k area of the RPM range so I think I will just leave it that way..... and just put it back together enough for a test ride to see if that area is enough to hamper the riding.... when it's warm that area seems to go away.
so I am thinking it just might be good enough.
.....
Bob.....
__________________________________________________
Its too late when you've gone too far !
Bob KellyIII is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 16th, 2023, 04:35 PM   #95
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
Go back to bone-stock factory jetting! You're hardly ever 100% WOT anyway, so little richness there won't hurt too much. Makes mid-range better.

Something might not be working on your coast-enricher. Maybe use single hose and get rid of "emissions fitting" T-joint? I had grain of sand that blocked vacuum-port on my UFO. No more pops after clearing that out.
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 16th, 2023, 05:14 PM   #96
Bob KellyIII
Retired motorcycle Mc.
 
Bob KellyIII's Avatar
 
Name: Robert
Location: Weed, California.
Join Date: Jul 2021

Motorcycle(s): 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2021 CSC TT250, 1977 Triumph Bonneville 750cc,2001 Honda XR650L.

Posts: A lot.
I was thinking about that coast enricher when I got a few back fires !....
Hardly ever at WOT !.... Well I must say..... I am NEVER at WOT ~!!!!! LOL not even testing.... the max I will take it is 9 maybe 10 grand and then only for a split second !
(mostly just to hear it scream ! ) I am wondering now if Gordon messed with the coast enricher or not.... I bet he didn't as that is not carburetor.... it is just attached to it.
and of course it went with the carbs... but he may have you never know.....
.....
I have read where the coast enricher will play havoc with the running of the bike if they are messed up....and sense it does not sound like it is working.... maybe that is the place to look before I get it all back together again....
... putting it all back to stock is an option.... because it SHOULD work there... but it was back to stock that is why we changed it ! it would not run right for love nor money !
so rather than second guess that move I will leave the jetting as it is ...for now
it's running fairly good now.... and I think it is rideable once again....actually riding it and putting it under a load should tell me alot more..... I think I will find no power at 4~5 grand.... but you don't know till you try it !
....
Bob.......
__________________________________________________
Its too late when you've gone too far !
Bob KellyIII is offline   Reply With Quote


Old May 16th, 2023, 05:57 PM   #97
ducatiman
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
ducatiman's Avatar
 
Name: Gordon
Location: new york
Join Date: Sep 2009

Motorcycle(s): '95 DUCATI 900SS/SP '07 DUCATI SS800 '19 HONDA CBR650R

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Nov '18, Mar '17
performed my normal fare on your "decel valve", apart, inspect for free movement, reassemble using buttonhead screws
__________________________________________________
gordon@customcarbservices.com
Custom Carb Service
www.customcarbservices.com
ducatiman is online now   Reply With Quote


1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
Old May 16th, 2023, 07:48 PM   #98
Bob KellyIII
Retired motorcycle Mc.
 
Bob KellyIII's Avatar
 
Name: Robert
Location: Weed, California.
Join Date: Jul 2021

Motorcycle(s): 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2021 CSC TT250, 1977 Triumph Bonneville 750cc,2001 Honda XR650L.

Posts: A lot.
Ahh ! thank you Gordon that answers that question....
....and the black soot on the jets I think was from the back firing I have been getting every once in a while.... just for your information
....I've been getting pops on deceleration, from higher RPM's
to me that means a lean condition.... but Kawasaki saw that coming so they added the coast enricher.... after all you can only run an engine so lean before you run into trouble and they all have gone way beyond that point.
Bob........
__________________________________________________
Its too late when you've gone too far !
Bob KellyIII is offline   Reply With Quote


Old June 3rd, 2023, 08:46 PM   #99
Bob KellyIII
Retired motorcycle Mc.
 
Bob KellyIII's Avatar
 
Name: Robert
Location: Weed, California.
Join Date: Jul 2021

Motorcycle(s): 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2021 CSC TT250, 1977 Triumph Bonneville 750cc,2001 Honda XR650L.

Posts: A lot.
ok temps hit 80 degrees here today ! and that is quite a suprise !
I took the naked Ninja to the gas station and filled up 2.8 gal. so she was out of gas....
..... it ran very bad. starting out from a stop it didn't want to pull much at all and one of the cylinders wanted to drop out in running only around 6~7k RPM did it start running half way decent.... from 7k to 12k it ran perfect.... better than ever in fact the bike really screamed great.... however on the bottom end of the RPM gauge it's horrible ! it is barely rideable this way... so the carbs have to come off yet again....I cannot tell if it's lean or rich at the bottom end yet but my suspissions lean towards lean. When it was colder, when I first started the short ride, it ran better on the bottom end the warmer it got the more a cylinder wanted to drop.....
....
I think the thing to try now is Changing the pilot jets sense I could not get the air screws to make any change in RPM at all when adjusting them.... that may well be all it takes to get this thing running right again.
....
still pushing that rope ! I'll get it working eventually,.... I think !
....
Bob......
__________________________________________________
Its too late when you've gone too far !
Bob KellyIII is offline   Reply With Quote


Old June 4th, 2023, 06:02 PM   #100
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob KellyIII View Post
I cannot tell if it's lean or rich at the bottom end yet but my suspissions lean towards lean. When it was colder, when I first started the short ride, it ran better on the bottom end the warmer it got the more a cylinder wanted to drop.....
....
That means it's running rich. Cold air is denser with more oxygen molecules for any given volume. So amount of petrol you're sending matches that condition.

However as air warms up, it's less dense and has fewer oxygen molecules. But you're still sending same amount of petrol. So now it's too rich and bogs. At track, I usually change out main jets around noon to one size smaller as air hots up. Runs much, much better in afternoon than if I kept same jetting as morning.

Try removing one needle-shim and see what difference it makes. Then remove 2nd shim. Use choke when 1st starting up.
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


Old June 4th, 2023, 09:53 PM   #101
Bob KellyIII
Retired motorcycle Mc.
 
Bob KellyIII's Avatar
 
Name: Robert
Location: Weed, California.
Join Date: Jul 2021

Motorcycle(s): 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2021 CSC TT250, 1977 Triumph Bonneville 750cc,2001 Honda XR650L.

Posts: A lot.
And I think you are right..... darn it ! because I just ordered larger pilot jets....
I think stock pilot is a #38 so I went to #40's I should probably by #35's as well
.....
No smoke at all Danno.... like it was running rich.... it feels lean !
but putting 2 shims in there probably made it too rich I'll do a plug color check and see what that says.... I think I will go and order 2 more pilot jets just to have them on hand
so I don't have to wait for them .
....
there is also the aspect of as the air expands when it warms up there is more volume
which makes it leaner.... which is why I think it's lean (giving a fixed volume of gas)
which pushes it beyond the point of ignition (past 14:1 FAR) we know already that they try real hard to hit the 14:1 sweet-spot for fuel economy.... I would like 12:1
but that is really hard to guess in.
....
I gott'a think on this..... it is possible it is too rich.... but my gut instinct tells me it is lean, not rich.
....
removing 1 shim may make the bike run perfect.... without changing the pilot jets
so I think I will do that.... and see what I get in response. although I do love the way it runs on top end right now, that monster really screams good.... but I want it to work through the entire RPM band....

.....
Bob......
__________________________________________________
Its too late when you've gone too far !
Bob KellyIII is offline   Reply With Quote


Old June 5th, 2023, 10:24 AM   #102
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob KellyIII View Post
there is also the aspect of as the air expands when it warms up there is more volume
which makes it leaner.... which is why I think it's lean (giving a fixed volume of gas)
Why would that make it leaner? There's less air per fixed volume of petrol. Or more petrol per fixed volume of air. Richer.

Yeah, also go back to factory pilots. There's absolutely zero need to change that, all adjustments needed can be done with mixture screws.
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


Old June 5th, 2023, 11:47 PM   #103
Bob KellyIII
Retired motorcycle Mc.
 
Bob KellyIII's Avatar
 
Name: Robert
Location: Weed, California.
Join Date: Jul 2021

Motorcycle(s): 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2021 CSC TT250, 1977 Triumph Bonneville 750cc,2001 Honda XR650L.

Posts: A lot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Why would that make it leaner? There's less air per fixed volume of petrol. Or more petrol per fixed volume of air. Richer.

Yeah, also go back to factory pilots. There's absolutely zero need to change that, all adjustments needed can be done with mixture screws.
less air for a fixed volume of fuel= Richer that's correct But as that air heats up
it becomes Leaner the hotter it gets the Leaner it becomes

Lets assume it is perfect at idle when cold .... as it warms up the fuel air ratio becomes leaner and becomes so lean that it drops a cylinder.....
Most engines do not change the fuel air ratio that much when warming up
they start out slightly rich and when they reach operating tempiture they are just right.... if My bike was set correctly when it was cold then it would warm up to a leaner condition.... that may well be the entire problem ! idle airscrews set when it was cold and not operating temp.
( that bike does take a long time to warm up ! )
.....
Bob.......
__________________________________________________
Its too late when you've gone too far !
Bob KellyIII is offline   Reply With Quote


Old June 9th, 2023, 02:13 AM   #104
Bob KellyIII
Retired motorcycle Mc.
 
Bob KellyIII's Avatar
 
Name: Robert
Location: Weed, California.
Join Date: Jul 2021

Motorcycle(s): 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2021 CSC TT250, 1977 Triumph Bonneville 750cc,2001 Honda XR650L.

Posts: A lot.
I have been re-reading these posts and I see what you are saying Danno....
hotter air occupies more volume than cold air therefore the warmer it is the less air is in the cylinder.... meaning it would be richer ...your right !
....
there's a problem with that theory though... Richer FAR will ignite well up into the 20:1 ratio's where as leaner FAR's only do down to about 15~16:1 max
what I'm experienceing is the cylinder cutting out entirely not blubbering
it's missing a beat or 3 and then hitting again meaning to me it is running lean in that area.... I guess the way to tell would be to pull the plugs and do a color check , I got the bike back in the shop and up on it's home made stand again
so I should be able to do that in the next week. I got as far as getting the gas tank off and the side pannels and I hooked up the aux. gas tank ....and then got to thinking "I wonder if my handy dandy 90 deg. screwdriver isn't actually turning the tiny pilot screws after all.....
so I want to turn them by HAND now to be sure.....maybe that is why I could not get any change in RPM maybe the screwdriver doesn't fit... because I ran into that problem last year ...none of my screwdrivers would fit in that tiny hole.... I thought no problem this screw driver is made for this.... and it uses the 1/4" snap in bits (the smallest one) but Maybe, just maybe although I am sure it is going into the hole maybe the blade is too wide to fit in the slot!
.....so I will have to hunt up my home made screwdrivers I made for it and see if I can change the idle speed by turning the fuel/air screw.... I bet it does !!!!! because that would make sense if the fuel air screws were left at the factory specks..... as it runs like doo doo there !!! I know, I did that when I first got it !
so I have something else to try for the moment !
.........
Bob.......
__________________________________________________
Its too late when you've gone too far !
Bob KellyIII is offline   Reply With Quote


Old June 9th, 2023, 06:58 AM   #105
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob KellyIII View Post
I have been re-reading these posts and I see what you are saying Danno....
hotter air occupies more volume than cold air therefore the warmer it is the less air is in the cylinder.... meaning it would be richer ...your right !
....
there's a problem with that theory though... Richer FAR will ignite well up into the 20:1 ratio's where as leaner FAR's only do down to about 15~16:1 max
what I'm experienceing is the cylinder cutting out entirely not blubbering
it's missing a beat or 3 and then hitting again meaning to me it is running lean in that area.... I guess the way to tell would be to pull the plugs and do a color check
You're getting numbers mixed up. AFR = Air Fuel Ratio... Air is much larger component...

rich AFR = 14,0:1 to 10,0:1. That's 10 parts air to 1 part fuel, which is super rich factory mixtures.

stoich AFR = 14,7:1 meaning 14,7 parts air to 1 part fuel. Note that this is more air and less fuel than rich mixture

lean AFR = 15,0:1 to 20,0:1 for lots of air to 1 part fuel.

Lean mixtures still burns and bike feels lazy and weak. Rich mixtures causes cut-outs and stumbling. Don't bother reading plugs unless you put in brand-new plugs just before ride and chop throttle and turn off engine just at point you want to analyse mixtures. Even then, plug readings aren't that useful or indicative of mixtures with modern unleaded petrol. You won't be able to tell difference between rich 13,5:1 mixtures vs lean 15,5:1 mixtures. Maybe between 10,0:1 vs 16,5:1 which is HUGE range.

You need to be less haphazard about your mods. Take a more methodical scientific approach and write down your procedures and data.

1. record morning cold-start temp, 2 shims, how's it run?

2. record hotter afternoon air temp, 2 shims, how's it run?

3. record morning cold-start temp, 1 shim, how's it run?

4. record hotter afternoon air temp, 1 shim, how's it run?

5. record morning cold-start temp, 0 shim, how's it run?

6. record hotter afternoon air temp, 0 shim, how's it run?

DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


Old June 9th, 2023, 07:12 AM   #106
Bob KellyIII
Retired motorcycle Mc.
 
Bob KellyIII's Avatar
 
Name: Robert
Location: Weed, California.
Join Date: Jul 2021

Motorcycle(s): 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2021 CSC TT250, 1977 Triumph Bonneville 750cc,2001 Honda XR650L.

Posts: A lot.
LOL yah I knew there was something wrong with it ! OOPS I know what I mean though !
ok I thought that might be the case on plug color thanks...
....
well when you work on it for 2 days then don't touch it for 2 weeks then work on it an hour and then not again for a week..... you kind'a get bummed out ya know ?
....
it Can't do what it's doing ! yet it is. if you put it back to stock and it doesn't run right
something else broke.... the problem is it all points back to the carb ....
I'll take a break from it for a while and work on something less frustrating for a while.
maybe the fuel air screws are really at blame here.... it's possible i guess highly unlikely but possible !
Bob....
__________________________________________________
Its too late when you've gone too far !
Bob KellyIII is offline   Reply With Quote


Old June 9th, 2023, 01:28 PM   #107
Bob KellyIII
Retired motorcycle Mc.
 
Bob KellyIII's Avatar
 
Name: Robert
Location: Weed, California.
Join Date: Jul 2021

Motorcycle(s): 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2021 CSC TT250, 1977 Triumph Bonneville 750cc,2001 Honda XR650L.

Posts: A lot.
Ok do you want a laugh ?
I go out there to try and adjust the air screws properly..... however my screwdriver tip is going way up in there.... obviously you can't see up in there, you can't barely touch it yet alone turn a screwdriver on it too... but I decided to take the pilot air screw out completely I get down there on my hands and knees and am looking trying to see getting the 90 degree screw driver into the hole..... and I see something brass colored laying there in a crack.... my focus changes onto it and it's the idle air screw ! well no wonder it is running so poorly !!!! your not supposed to be laying there your supposed to be in the carberator !....
so I get my long needle nose plyers and carefully grab the idle air screw and lay it on the floor.... and I start looking for the rest of the parts.... then I see the spring ! I think Oh man am I lucky !..... I fish it out and then start pulling out the few leaves that are in that well under the starter.... and I see that tiny washer TOO !!!!!
...so I clean them up and put the right side air screw in from the left side because you can't fit your hand under the right side ...now I get it up there and it is staying as I tried to turn it a bit with my finger tips.... then I get the 90 degree screwdriver and screw it in till it has a bit of resistance... I then back it off 3 turns exactly and stop.....
I hit the starter and it fired right up.... sounds like it's trying to run on both cylinders now ! it definately is grabbing RPM alot better than it was now.... but it is hesitant on the bottom end.... it seems the more I ran it the better it ran ...NOW....
....
while I had the screw OUT I made darn good and sure the screwdriver fit the screw and I DID have to trim it down a hair on the grinder ....
....
My fancy dancy 90 degree screwdriver has click indents in it and it makes feeling the screw near impossable however I think I will definately set the left cylinder to 3 turns out as well.... just to make sure both are set the same ( I know one of them is supposed to be 1/4 turn in from the other but I can't remember which one.....) I was hoping to adjust it to best RPM with a screwdriver that fit it ! ....
.....
so screw-ups aside I found something wrong...so that is a good thing !
.....
I think what happened is I backed the screw out so far the spring no longer held it in place...so it just vibrated out setting there.... if it vibrated out on the road I probably would have lost it completely.... so it must have fell out in the shop at idle.
how can you screw up a simple air screw adjustment ? just ask me I can tell you ! LOL
.....
Bob......
__________________________________________________
Its too late when you've gone too far !
Bob KellyIII is offline   Reply With Quote


Old June 9th, 2023, 01:41 PM   #108
Bob KellyIII
Retired motorcycle Mc.
 
Bob KellyIII's Avatar
 
Name: Robert
Location: Weed, California.
Join Date: Jul 2021

Motorcycle(s): 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2021 CSC TT250, 1977 Triumph Bonneville 750cc,2001 Honda XR650L.

Posts: A lot.
L=2.5 turns
R=1.75 turn
for air screw adjustment if you forgot the turns out that you did taking the carbs apart !
this is for initial settings..... and my bike will hardly run at this altitude with these settings
....(3500 ASL)
....
Bob......
__________________________________________________
Its too late when you've gone too far !
Bob KellyIII is offline   Reply With Quote


Old June 10th, 2023, 12:09 AM   #109
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
Best to remove carbs and put those tamper-proof caps back on.

Did you ever do petcock flow test?
How many CCs does it flow in 10s when you're cranking engine?

Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; June 10th, 2023 at 05:34 AM.
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


Old June 10th, 2023, 06:17 AM   #110
Triple Jim
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
 
Triple Jim's Avatar
 
Name: Jim
Location: North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2016

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Oct '18, Aug '17, Aug '16
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Best to remove carbs and put those tamper-proof caps back on.
Triple Jim is offline   Reply With Quote


1 out of 1 members found this post helpful.
Old June 10th, 2023, 07:24 AM   #111
Bob KellyIII
Retired motorcycle Mc.
 
Bob KellyIII's Avatar
 
Name: Robert
Location: Weed, California.
Join Date: Jul 2021

Motorcycle(s): 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2021 CSC TT250, 1977 Triumph Bonneville 750cc,2001 Honda XR650L.

Posts: A lot.
no never did a flow test Jac.... it's getting gas so I figure it's probably enough
the plan now is to pull both carbs and remove one shim, and maybe put in a slow speed idle jet its got 38's in there now, I'll go by what I know and put in a #40....
I am extremally reluctant to do that because it is such a pain to take the carbs off again
.....If I were Smart I would just remove the shim's and not mess with the slow speed jets
and put it back together again and see how it runs
....
my grass is knee deep outside I need to mow the grass and trim stuff we got a bit of rain last night.... just a trace.... but things were starting to dry out fast...so we needed the rain.
... I may say to hell with it all and go for a ride on the XR650L instead ! LOL
...
Bob......
__________________________________________________
Its too late when you've gone too far !
Bob KellyIII is offline   Reply With Quote


Old June 11th, 2023, 09:16 AM   #112
Bob KellyIII
Retired motorcycle Mc.
 
Bob KellyIII's Avatar
 
Name: Robert
Location: Weed, California.
Join Date: Jul 2021

Motorcycle(s): 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2021 CSC TT250, 1977 Triumph Bonneville 750cc,2001 Honda XR650L.

Posts: A lot.
ok I found the secret to getting the carbs off and on on the Ninja !
I put a big hunkin screwdriver between the carbs at the air box plastic.... and pried against the frame to move the airbox back.... no biggy we all do that right ? well I got to thinkin how about I just use a ratchet strap and HOLD that big screwdriver there so I don't have to fight it moving back and limiting the little room I have....
and that really worked great it moved the airbox back far enough that I had 1/2" between the carbs completely out of their boots and the air box boots.... that was by far the easiest carb removal I've done on this bike !!!!!!!!!!!!!
here is a pic....
I had the carbs out in 10 minutes removed one shim on each needle ( one at a time)
and then put in the #40 pilot jets..... set the air screws to 2 3/4 turns out on each and left them there as I know I will have to fine tune the air screws....
......
Bob...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg moving the airbox back01.jpg (154.2 KB, 3 views)
__________________________________________________
Its too late when you've gone too far !
Bob KellyIII is offline   Reply With Quote


Old June 11th, 2023, 11:26 AM   #113
Bob KellyIII
Retired motorcycle Mc.
 
Bob KellyIII's Avatar
 
Name: Robert
Location: Weed, California.
Join Date: Jul 2021

Motorcycle(s): 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2021 CSC TT250, 1977 Triumph Bonneville 750cc,2001 Honda XR650L.

Posts: A lot.
ok well I took a break and then went back out there and hooked up the choke and throttle and gas line and fired it up....
it started ok about what you'ed expect from empty carb bowls.
I tried my best to adjust the air screws.... turned them in till the RPM slowed down then back out till it sped up a bit.... did that on both sides...
gave it throttle and it did not want to go above 6,000 RPM and is obviously running like crap. I played a bit more with the air screws and left them a bit on the rich side
that helped alot but it sounds like it's missing or something.... hard to tell with the air box still off/disconnected. the flat spot is alot worse now sense I removed one shim
with both shims in there is was pirty much gone but not quite those shims are so extreamily thin that it's hard to imagon that they actually do anything.... like a few thousandths !
.....
I think what I will do now is pull off the carbs again. replace the shims I took out and see if I can find another shim like those and put it in there.
I think the pilot jets are about right now because I could actually hear the change in RPM as I turned the screws , the problem is there is no peak to the idle screws like there should be...... so I can't tell where the right spot is any idle screw will lower the RPM if you screw it in far enough...... getting it to peak tells you that you past the correct mixture..... this thing doesn't peak and then drop back down in RPM so it really is a guess as to if it's right..... I put both of them at the highest RPM and left them at that.....
.... Knowing what I know about this finiky beast I think I will put the air box back on
and try it again and see if that makes any difference.
....
seeing that flat spot come back in force tells me that the shims are definitely needed
( at least with the 95 main-jets in it)
when it is running in the flat spot it fluctuates alot missing or something of the like
if I let up off the throttle some times it will pick it up and rev past it .... it's like I am flooding it.... if I ease the throttle up through the flatspot some times it will climb through it , and other times it won't.... at last check it was idling great albeit very low
like 500~600 RPM but I figured it was still half way cold.
....
Bob........
__________________________________________________
Its too late when you've gone too far !
Bob KellyIII is offline   Reply With Quote


Old June 11th, 2023, 01:53 PM   #114
Bob KellyIII
Retired motorcycle Mc.
 
Bob KellyIII's Avatar
 
Name: Robert
Location: Weed, California.
Join Date: Jul 2021

Motorcycle(s): 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2021 CSC TT250, 1977 Triumph Bonneville 750cc,2001 Honda XR650L.

Posts: A lot.
ok I put in the shim I took out and added one !
now we'll see what that does !
LOL
Bob.......
__________________________________________________
Its too late when you've gone too far !
Bob KellyIII is offline   Reply With Quote


Old June 11th, 2023, 04:35 PM   #115
Bob KellyIII
Retired motorcycle Mc.
 
Bob KellyIII's Avatar
 
Name: Robert
Location: Weed, California.
Join Date: Jul 2021

Motorcycle(s): 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2021 CSC TT250, 1977 Triumph Bonneville 750cc,2001 Honda XR650L.

Posts: A lot.
This is totally weird......
with 3 shims (2 gordon put in at my request) and a tiny washer I had in my bolt assortment box the thing HAS NO FLATSPOT AT ALL !
it is very slow coming off idle though but I think that is air screw adjustment that I set at 2 turns out on each.....
....
mid range and top end are fantastic at the moment !
.... however it heated up extreamily quickly this time so I didn't press my luck and turned it off and I'll check the coolant again.... it must be very low !
....
NO flatspot with 3 shims ! that is weird
how and why can it be that far off with just a cleaning ? it boggles the mind !
.....
anyway I am encouraged.... it sounds really good I'll try again to adjust the air screws
and see if I can get the idle and off idle to be correct ...I got the flatspot out now and that was the hard one.... now lets see if I can get the idle right !
....
Bob.......
__________________________________________________
Its too late when you've gone too far !
Bob KellyIII is offline   Reply With Quote


Old June 12th, 2023, 08:18 AM   #116
Bob KellyIII
Retired motorcycle Mc.
 
Bob KellyIII's Avatar
 
Name: Robert
Location: Weed, California.
Join Date: Jul 2021

Motorcycle(s): 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2021 CSC TT250, 1977 Triumph Bonneville 750cc,2001 Honda XR650L.

Posts: A lot.
this is the next morning.... I checked the coolant and it is up to the neck where I left it.
....
I am trying to think of how I can adjust the air screws the most accurately
when I had my bike shop decades ago I would just pop off the spark plug lead and then adjust the air screw on the other cylinder.... but that is near impossible to get the sparkplug leads off the plugs on the ninja.... maybe pull the coil wire would work ? just so that cylinder wouldn't fire ? Problem is I do NOT want to harm the ignition system
on it and I don't know if doing that would burn out the igniter or not ! so when in doubt DON'T ! LOL
I think I will just try to get the highest idle with the air screws again and leave it at that
....I may have to go back to stock pilot jets as I put in #40's trying to get the pilot circuit to react correctly. problem is I am not sure it changed anything ! so going back to stock pilot jets might be wise..... it worked before it should work now.... but then again it should have worked from the start as nothing was changed it was totally stock but it had a big flat spot in mid range.... 3 shims seemed to have fixed that portion
so taking everything else back to stock would seem prudent.
I dunno I will try adjusting the air screws again and see if I can get it to be snappy off
idle if so I will leave it alone !
....
Bob...
__________________________________________________
Its too late when you've gone too far !
Bob KellyIII is offline   Reply With Quote


Old June 12th, 2023, 08:45 AM   #117
Triple Jim
Guy Who Enjoys Riding
 
Triple Jim's Avatar
 
Name: Jim
Location: North Carolina
Join Date: Jul 2016

Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250

Posts: A lot.
MOTM - Oct '18, Aug '17, Aug '16
If I wanted to run the engine on one cylinder, I'd connect the spark plug lead to a spare plug lying on the head.
Triple Jim is offline   Reply With Quote


Old June 12th, 2023, 01:59 PM   #118
Bob KellyIII
Retired motorcycle Mc.
 
Bob KellyIII's Avatar
 
Name: Robert
Location: Weed, California.
Join Date: Jul 2021

Motorcycle(s): 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2021 CSC TT250, 1977 Triumph Bonneville 750cc,2001 Honda XR650L.

Posts: A lot.
Great advice there Jim ! I remember just pulling the spark plug lead off one of my bikes and just leaving the spark plug lead dangle.... BAD MOVE...it cost me a coil ! so from then on I gave that lead a sparkplug and made sure it was grounded good !..... However I did the pop the spark plug lead off for decades before that and never had a problem.... but I think the parts are not as robust as they used to be... best to give it a sparkplug to ground just to be safe !
.....
I adjusted the airscrews on the ninja and it is running acceptable now
I think I will just put it back together and try it that way....
....
6 months of work for cleaning the carbs.... go figure !
something obviously changed but I may never know WHAT !
it starts right up, gains rpm with the choke on like it should... takes throttle well I guess I can't ask for much more
i would say "Success!" at this point !
....but I really won't know till I ride it and that will be a while yet ! as I have to put the plastics back on it ! ...aurgh !
....
Bob........
__________________________________________________
Its too late when you've gone too far !
Bob KellyIII is offline   Reply With Quote


Old June 12th, 2023, 08:05 PM   #119
DannoXYZ
ninjette.org certified postwhore
 
Name: AKA JacRyann
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2011

Motorcycle(s): CB125T CBR250R-MC19 CBR250RR-MC22 NSR350R-MC21 VF500F CBR600RR SFV650 VFR750F R1M ST1300PA Valkyrie-F6C

Posts: A lot.
MOTY - 2018, MOTM - Nov '17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob KellyIII View Post
This is totally weird......
with 3 shims (2 gordon put in at my request) and a tiny washer I had in my bolt assortment box the thing HAS NO FLATSPOT AT ALL !
it is very slow coming off idle though but I think that is air screw adjustment that I set at 2 turns out on each.....
....
mid range and top end are fantastic at the moment !
.... however it heated up extreamily quickly this time so I didn't press my luck and turned it off and I'll check the coolant again.... it must be very low !
....
NO flatspot with 3 shims ! that is weird
how and why can it be that far off with just a cleaning ? it boggles the mind !
.....
anyway I am encouraged.... it sounds really good I'll try again to adjust the air screws
and see if I can get the idle and off idle to be correct ...I got the flatspot out now and that was the hard one.... now lets see if I can get the idle right !
....
Bob.......
I say go back to factory 98 mains.
DannoXYZ is offline   Reply With Quote


Old June 12th, 2023, 10:16 PM   #120
Bob KellyIII
Retired motorcycle Mc.
 
Bob KellyIII's Avatar
 
Name: Robert
Location: Weed, California.
Join Date: Jul 2021

Motorcycle(s): 2012 Kawasaki Ninja 250R, 2021 CSC TT250, 1977 Triumph Bonneville 750cc,2001 Honda XR650L.

Posts: A lot.
Why do you say that Danno ? the 98 mains were a tad rich given this altitude
the 95's SHOULD be more of a perfect burn.....
....
Bob.....
__________________________________________________
Its too late when you've gone too far !
Bob KellyIII is offline   Reply With Quote


Reply





Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Motorcycle Safety Foundation

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:49 PM.


Website uptime monitoring Host-tracker.com
Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Except where otherwise noted, all site contents are © Copyright 2022 ninjette.org, All rights reserved.