Dude, I had to lay it down

[dirty nasty]

Originally Posted by ryan.chin

Trying to upshift in the turn?

That's what GP shift is for and exactly why I converted my bike to it. That and my shift times are so stupidly fast my brain can barely keep up with it. I know on up shifts it's so fast my clutch hand can't keep up. I love it.

But yeah, shifting gears in a turn is best avoided. Sometimes it helps, but most of the time if you don't know what you're doing you're gonna mess something up.

[Jim Moore]

Originally Posted by sc37

Thats one of the things I didnt get in the MSF class. They had us practice upshifting in the turns compared to all the reading Ive done online which makes it seem like a no-no. I asked about it and the instructor said that its a normal everyday street riding skill, but might be different on the track.

Thre's not enough room to upshift on the straightaway in that particular exercise. We have you downshift on the straightaway, then upshift in the turn.

Downshifting in in a turn is generally not a good idea. Upshifting in a turn is not as bad. You'd be better off picking a gear you can maintain throughout the turn, but sometimes it doesn't work out. That's one of the reasons racers use a GP shift pattern. Pressing down to upshift means you don't have to get your toe under the shifter in a left turn if you want to upshift.

[seanshawnS]

Originally Posted by Aufitt

Massive inattention, mashed the front brake, wheel folded under, noob down.

That vid is so full win, thanks for sharing.

Hindsight is nice.

[matha028]

Originally Posted by Mountain Dew

Unless you're some kind of demi-god and can manipulate the laws of physics...



Just admit it, you braked improperly and laid it down, we won't judge you (unless you fervently insist that you slid away from the direction you were already traveling in).

Well since I slid at about a 40 degree angle in the other direction from the bike yes I did slide away from it. I slid about 30 feet. And my jacket and pants were both ripped, but not through to my skin. The bike slid into the side of the car running the red light, which then took off. So no it would not have stopped in time. Yes if I would have tried out running it across the intersection the car would have hit me, and yes if I had locked up the brakes and kept it upright I would have hit the side of the car. The police that arrived on scene (2 were motorcycle cops) after taking my statement, and the other witnesses statements agreed it was the best decision, and probably what allowed me to walk away from it. It didn't go down like the one in the video, it slid on its side for a good 15-20 feet. I laid it down and kicked away from it. Keep in mind the road was wet so not as much "friction". So stop being a smart ass since you weren't there.

[Mountain Dew]

Like I said, just admit you handled it improperly, whether it be improper braking, or not keeping your head on a swivel.

[Jiggles]

Originally Posted by matha028

Well since I slid at about a 40 degree angle in the other direction from the bike yes I did slide away from it. I slid about 30 feet. And my jacket and pants were both ripped, but not through to my skin. The bike slid into the side of the car running the red light, which then took off. So no it would not have stopped in time. Yes if I would have tried out running it across the intersection the car would have hit me, and yes if I had locked up the brakes and kept it upright I would have hit the side of the car. The police that arrived on scene (2 were motorcycle cops) after taking my statement, and the other witnesses statements agreed it was the best decision, and probably what allowed me to walk away from it. It didn't go down like the one in the video, it slid on its side for a good 15-20 feet. I laid it down and kicked away from it. Keep in mind the road was wet so not as much "friction". So stop being a smart ass since you weren't there.

Your bike slid for 15-20 feet???

[matha028]

Yes it did. On my frame sliders and my swing arm sliders.

[Aufitt]

Thats 15-20 feet that could have been used for braking... if you 'had to lay it down of course' heh

[R1Chronicles]

[seanshawnS]

Originally Posted by matha028

Yes it did. On my frame sliders and my swing arm sliders.

[matha028]

It is not possible to stop any vehicle not even that little bike, from 45 mph in 15-20 feet.
The fact that you are telling riders how the decision I made is a wrong one is going to get more people like your buddy Alex killed. Trying to out run a car that is on a collision path for you, especially on a little 250 is probably the dumbest thing I have every heard.

[matha028]

It is not possible to stop any vehicle not even that little bike, from 45 mph in 15-20 feet.
The fact that you are telling riders how the decision I made is a wrong one is going to get more people like your buddy Alex killed. Trying to out run a car that is on a collision path for you, especially on a little 250 is probably the dumbest thing I have every heard.

[Jiggles]

It's not possible to low side a bike and then jump off it at 45mph and not hit a car that's 20 feet away. I'm not even going to argue with you because I think even to new riders it's plainly obvious you have no idea what you are talking about. You are incapable of listening to reason and not worth the time. I hope you read my insurance thread and upgraded your policy because you are going to need it one day

[Alex]

Originally Posted by matha028

The fact that you are telling riders how the decision I made is a wrong one is going to get more people like your buddy Alex killed.

You were being foolish. Now you're being offensive and foolish.

[R1Chronicles]

Originally Posted by matha028

It is not possible to stop any vehicle not even that little bike, from 45 mph in 15-20 feet.
The fact that you are telling riders how the decision I made is a wrong one is going to get more people like your buddy Alex killed. Trying to out run a car that is on a collision path for you, especially on a little 250 is probably the dumbest thing I have every heard.

I've been holding back commenting with you because of your additude, it's all wrong imo but here it goes and I leave it at this. I would never recommend laying a bike down and would prefer to hit the vehicle/or be hit and go over, I have had to do it on a few occasions now (Just try to free yourself of the handle bars at the last second, they take knees and legs away). You go down and you can get run over (never a good thing), might not even be the vehicle your trying to avoid. Plus your giving control of the event to fate, never give up control.

Your a static rider and will never improve with your current mindset, there's always something to find that could've been done better or differently by yourself.

[lgk]

Originally Posted by Alex

You were being foolish. Now you're being offensive and foolish.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[R1Chronicles]

Originally Posted by Alex

You were being foolish. Now you're being offensive and foolish.

Thank you Alex, I wanted to say something but it all came out to aggressive.

[xSean13]

Originally Posted by matha028

So it wasn't all on purpose. It started when a mini Cooper ran a red light and hit me. Totaled my ninjette. I'll post pix soon. Oh yeah did I tell u it was a hit and run. Let's just hope I don't come across him again. I mean red light running I can forgive, totaling my bike, I'm a nice guy I can forgive that too I guess. Not even stopping to see if he killed me. That pisses me off.

So...did he get hit, or did he lay it down and not get hit? If you lay it down and your bike slides 15-20ft then hits the side of the car, then that's no close to getting hit. 20ft is more than enough distance to slow down & avoid getting hit by a red-light runner. The time it takes you to stop would probably be enough to where the cager would already pass by. Flinging the bike (and yourself) along the pavement at him/her is not a great idea.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by matha028

It is not possible to stop any vehicle not even that little bike, from 45 mph in 15-20 feet.
The fact that you are telling riders how the decision I made is a wrong one is going to get more people like your buddy Alex killed. Trying to out run a car that is on a collision path for you, especially on a little 250 is probably the dumbest thing I have every heard.

jesus. some people. denial is a powerful thing, but theres no need to be disrespectful to the fallen. thats just ****ed up dude. dont be such an asshole.

and as far as your crash. you can always stop faster, or more importantly, TURN FASTER, ON THE BIKE vs sliding on the road. you are making yoourself sound like not only an idiot squid, but a complete douche asshole on top of it.

[Mountain Dew]

I'd ALSO like to point out that that car wasn't stopped in the intersection. It was traveling just as fast as you. All you needed to do was slow down (NOT stop completely like you think you needed to) and you would've missed crossing paths.

Let's do some math, shall we?

I'm not sure how fast you were going, but if it was a typical intersection, I'd like to say it was 45mph, and I'll use that in my example. Traveling at 45mph, that's 66 feet per SECOND. I'm also not sure how many lanes wide the intersection is, but I'll go ahead and give you the benefit of the doubt and say it was 4 lanes wide (2 each direction). A typical surface street lane is about 10ft wide (12 on the interstate, just for some trivial knowledge). If the lanes are 10ft wide, and there's four of em, that's only 40ft. Give some extra space for a shoulder, or even a full-sized shoulder, and let's say that's 50, maybe 55ft. Now like I said earlier, 45mph is 66 feet per second. He was in and out of that intersection in about a second. Science says braking is done at about 15 feet per second (in good conditions with average tires). Let's say we knock a few feet off for 12 feet per second. Now since you say your bike slid about 25 feet, with those numbers, it seems you would've had ample time to slow to miss this guy.

Now using those numbers again, you're claiming you recognized the obstacle, made the decision, AND performed the action, to apply the brakes and turn your bars (which would've laid the bike over) in a fifth of a second (25ft @ 66fps). Again, seems highly unlikely.

So I'll say it one last time, just admit you braked improperly and failed to stay aware of your surroundings. That story may be fine for your classmates that don't ride or your parents, but we don't buy it for one second.

[seanshawnS]

Originally Posted by Mountain Dew

I'd ALSO like to point out that that car wasn't stopped in the intersection. It was traveling just as fast as you. All you needed to do was slow down (NOT stop completely like you think you needed to) and you would've missed crossing paths.

Let's do some math, shall we?

I'm not sure how fast you were going, but if it was a typical intersection, I'd like to say it was 45mph, and I'll use that in my example. Traveling at 45mph, that's 66 feet per SECOND. I'm also not sure how many lanes wide the intersection is, but I'll go ahead and give you the benefit of the doubt and say it was 4 lanes wide (2 each direction). A typical surface street lane is about 10ft wide (12 on the interstate, just for some trivial knowledge). If the lanes are 10ft wide, and there's four of em, that's only 40ft. Give some extra space for a shoulder, or even a full-sized shoulder, and let's say that's 50, maybe 55ft. Now like I said earlier, 45mph is 66 feet per second. He was in and out of that intersection in about a second. Science says braking is done at about 15 feet per second (in good conditions with average tires). Let's say we knock a few feet off for 12 feet per second. Now since you say your bike slid about 25 feet, with those numbers, it seems you would've had ample time to slow to miss this guy.

Now using those numbers again, you're claiming you recognized the obstacle, made the decision, AND performed the action, to apply the brakes and turn your bars (which would've laid the bike over) in a fifth of a second (25ft @ 66fps). Again, seems highly unlikely.

So I'll say it one last time, just admit you braked improperly and failed to stay aware of your surroundings. That story may be fine for your classmates that don't ride or your parents, but we don't buy it for one second.

If they had of told me math could win arguments in school.. I would have paid more attention.

[Jiggles]

What he did was panic lock the front and drop the bike.

What he thinks he did was lock the front on purpose.

He should get a bike with ABS that prevents him from doing stupid things

[lgk]

Originally Posted by seanshawnS

If they had of told me math could win arguments in school.. I would have paid more attention.

math solves everything except stupid, lol.

you can't fix stupid

[lgk]

Originally Posted by xSean13

So...did he get hit, or did he lay it down and not get hit? If you lay it down and your bike slides 15-20ft then hits the side of the car, then that's no close to getting hit. 20ft is more than enough distance to slow down & avoid getting hit by a red-light runner. The time it takes you to stop would probably be enough to where the cager would already pass by. Flinging the bike (and yourself) along the pavement at him/her is not a great idea.

yea, its unnatural to the point of absurdity.
No one can purposely lay the bike down from straight braking.
it takes a lack of skill to do it.

when i crashed my bike slid like 100ft...
a 15-20ft slide means he was going what 10mph.
definitely should have been able to stop without dropping it.

[alex.s]

check out my avatar.... I HAD TO LAY IT DOWN BRO.


but seriously. think about it. there is really only one condition where you "have to lay it down."... a speeding 18-wheelier runs a red light and hits a wall straight on going about 100mph (faster than you have time to react), in the snow, stopping the trailer directly in your path. not enough traction to turn or brake, if you hit it it takes your head off. lock up the rear brake and slide under it.

of course, a situation like that is one in a trillion. so i dont think you will ever have to worry about it.

[Miles_Prower]

Originally Posted by lgk

yea, its unnatural to the point of absurdity.
No one can purposely lay the bike down from straight braking.
it takes a lack of skill to do it.

when i crashed my bike slid like 100ft...
a 15-20ft slide means he was going what 10mph.
definitely should have been able to stop without dropping it.

it's crazy how far you slide, i crashed at 20mph and my bike and i slid about 30feet. we would have kept going but both hit a guard rail. McOuch.

[Lychee]

I think we have made our point fellas.

[lgk]

Originally Posted by Lychee

I think we have made our point fellas.

no, ima lead a horse to water, and dunk its head in it.

[matha028]

First off, jiggles I never claimed to tell newer riders anything, all I did was correct your statement. Your statement was there is never a good reason to lay your bike down. That's an opinion, one that most people clearly agree with, but is not 100% accurate. I don't care about your opinion. You are welcome to have it, but it doesn't make it fact or accurate. The fact is, that I chose to lay it down, and slide away. I didn't say I had to lay it down. I said I chose to lay it down, a choice I do not now, nor will I ever regret. I was there, I saw the circumstances that led to that decision. Therefore that's the choice I made. That choice saved my life. End of story. You will never convince me otherwise. Especially since your statement is opinion not fact! My injuries (a sore shoulder for a week that's all, no scrapes, no road rash, and no broken bones) were much less than that of staying with the bike and hitting the car. That makes it a good reason to lay it down. I never said all riders should lay their bike down in this case. I never said all newer riders or other riders (no matter the skill level and experience) should listen to me. All I said was your statement is not accurate. For example: if your statement had been statistically riders who lay their bike down intentionally in accident die or end up with worse injuries than those that just ride the accident out and had facts/data to prove it, there would have been no debate, but you didnt. You made a definitive statement that you cannot prove, and in this case is inaccurate. Because if there is only one time that it is a good decision (and mine was one) you can't say there is NEVER a good reason. To me less injury is a GREAT reason. As for your comment on insurance, I'm fully insured my bike, my medical bills, and life insurance so have no fear.
As to the person who made the comment about not getting better. Another opinion. I have ridden over 10,000 miles since that accident on multiple different bikes. You need not be concerned that I like most riders are continually getting better, improving, and learning new things. That fact that you all need to team up against one person is rediculous.
Whether everyone on the planet or not agrees with your opinion, that doesn't make it any more factual.
To the comment about it only sliding 15-20 feet, at 15-20 feet that's when my bike impacted the side of the car, the object that stopped its slide. I slid behind the path of the car into the middle of the intersection, which is why I laid it down on and slid away on the bikes left side, and not to the right side in front of the car.
To the comment earlier about only having frame sliders if you expect to use it. In my opinion that's a pretty uneducated statement. Frame sliders are a first line of insurance to me. For minor incidents it limits damage to the plastics. But that statement is your opinion and you are welcome to it.
I didn't lay it down from straight braking. I didn't lock either brake. I did posess the skill to lay it down, obviously I was successful in doing so. I'm here to talk about it. I used the brakes and leaned it left and and kicked it out from under me. It was intentional, not an accident and if I had to do it again, I would.
I was aware enough of my surroundings to know that sliding the direction I did, was not going to put me in the path of any other vehicles.
xSean-(to answer your question) I myself was not struck by that car or any other car, my bike and the car did collide.
I stand by my statement earlier, staying upright (on the bike) risked the outcome of the rider last week. Who was killed by a red light runner, when he stayed on his bike, swerved, and was still hit by the car. My outcome was without a doubt a much better outcome, and therefore proves my original disagreement with jiggles statement that there is never a good reason to lay your bike down. I don't know if his outcome would have been different/better if he had chosen the same course of action that I did. But it is a factual statement, that it couldn't have been worse.