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Old September 18th, 2018, 05:58 PM   #1
Hewes
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2007 Ninja 250 dies and wont start when warm

I just got this bike home about a week ago. It cold started and ran fine in the POs driveway and got up to temperature and ran great. Once I got it home I started experiencing trouble, once it got up to temperature it was unwilling to start. The bike has 4000 miles on the odometer. I took out and cleaned the carbs, reset the idle mixture screws back to factory setting, and replaced the air filter. Even after this the problem persists, it starts and runs fine until the temp gets up to about a quarter way on the gauge then it dies and isnt willing to restart until the next day. I read a similar post on here from a while ago but it didnt reveal much. Any advice? Starting to get worried I bought a bad example.
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Old September 18th, 2018, 06:05 PM   #2
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How many miles?
Last valve adjustment?

Could be that time.
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Old September 18th, 2018, 08:35 PM   #3
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completely refusing to start doesn't really sound like valves, Chis. I'm wondering if the ignition unit is getting hot and quitting.

Jacob, get it to do it again, and be ready with a spare spark plug of any type. When it won't start, unplug one of plug wires and plug it onto the spare plug, lay on the top of the engine when the outer part gets a ground, crank the engine, and see if it sparks. At least that will narrow down whether it's an ignition problem or a carburetor problem.
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Old September 18th, 2018, 10:12 PM   #4
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Saw this exact problem at track this weekend. John's Bazazz unit stopped working after 4-5 laps. Push it back garage and remove seat to look around. Can't find any wiring problems. Put it back together and it starts right up! Then dies after 4-5 laps.

This time, i poured some ice-water on it (flow water away from connector end), and it starts up right away! We move some wiring around to position Bazazz away from under seat to side of bike exposed to flowing air. No more problems for rest of dsy!

Some mid-90s Toyotas have this same problem when Toyota decided to be cute and stuff both ignition-coil and ignitor inside the distributor under rotor! So many overheating problems. Some enterprising mechanics solved problem by extracting ignitor from distributor and running wires out to position it on strut tower. No more overheating!!!
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Old September 19th, 2018, 06:37 AM   #5
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What did you set the Idle Mixture screw to? The "factory" settings aren't exactly right. You want to be in the range of 2.5 turns out.

Have you looked at the plug color? That will tell you if it's running way too rich or running out of gas.

Have you tried opening the throttle as you are cranking?

It may be a fuel flow or venting problem also. When it wants to quit, try opening the gas filler and listen for air rushing in. That would tell you it's not venting.

Check the petcock to make sure it flows gas by applying vacuum and watching it flow (with the fuel line disconnected). Also check the condition of the vacuum line to the carb.

Check the condition of the fuel filter located inside the fuel line at the carb as well as the screens inside the tank.

Have you drained the tank? Old or bad gas can cause odd problems. That's usually the first thing I do if I'm unsure about the age or quality of the gas. If someone had dumped "winter gas" into the tank it could cause a "vaporlock" condition as the lines and carbs heat up. Winter blend gas vaporizes easier than summer blend.

I had an old Honda that started and ran fine, but would not run at WOT. Changed the old gas out and it fixed the problem.
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Old September 19th, 2018, 06:37 AM   #6
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Yeah, could be ignition heat related, but what are you gonna do? The EX250's ignition control box is located way back on the left hand side of the bike, it's in about the coolest location you could possibly put it.

One of my older motorcycles, a 1993 Suzuki GSF400, is a model that's known (and is notorious) for its ignition box problems. As the GSF400 ages the ignition control transistors (the three-leg Darlington Transistors that handle the high-energy grounding of the coils) in the ignition control box become less and less willing/able to do their job. Just like your EX250 they only work when cold. The only solution the GSF400 guys have come up with involves having a guy with electrical skills break into the CDI box and remove-replace these transistors.
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Old September 19th, 2018, 11:14 AM   #7
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Thanks for the replies everyone. I'll check the ignition coil today.

I set the mixture screws to 2.5 turns out on the carb, I don't think its carb or airbox related since I went through these.

The PO replaced the gas filler with an okay quality aftermarket one so I'll check that again. The gas was good quality, I added 2 fresh gallons and 2 oz of seafoam to it and the floats have been drained several times.

I added a new inline fuel filter which I think may be too restrictive, it's meant for a tractor so maybe I'll look into swapping that back. If it's the ignition coil I may replace it.
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Old September 19th, 2018, 12:28 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hewes View Post
Thanks for the replies everyone. I'll check the ignition coil today.

I set the mixture screws to 2.5 turns out on the carb, I don't think its carb or airbox related since I went through these.

The PO replaced the gas filler with an okay quality aftermarket one so I'll check that again. The gas was good quality, I added 2 fresh gallons and 2 oz of seafoam to it and the floats have been drained several times.

I added a new inline fuel filter which I think may be too restrictive, it's meant for a tractor so maybe I'll look into swapping that back. If it's the ignition coil I may replace it.
Good on the carb settings then.

No disrespect, but many a Ninja-owner has "gone through/cleaned/rebuilt/fixed" their carbs only to find there are still carb-related problems. Maybe not the case here.

There's not a lot of room for an inline fuel filter, and if it creates a low spot in the fuel system you can have delivery problems.

Pull the filter and see if that changes anything. Did you find a small filter at the carb inlet?

How much gas was there when you added 2 gal? If there was condensation in the tank, or the original gas was bad, adding fresh to it isn't going to make it good. Draining completely and refilling is the only way to know it's fresh.
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Old September 19th, 2018, 01:32 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Saw this exact problem at track this weekend. John's Bazazz unit stopped working after 4-5 laps. Push it back garage and remove seat to look around. Can't find any wiring problems. Put it back together and it starts right up! Then dies after 4-5 laps.

This time, i poured some ice-water on it (flow water away from connector end), and it starts up right away! We move some wiring around to position Bazazz away from under seat to side of bike exposed to flowing air. No more problems for rest of dsy!

Some mid-90s Toyotas have this same problem when Toyota decided to be cute and stuff both ignition-coil and ignitor inside the distributor under rotor! So many overheating problems. Some enterprising mechanics solved problem by extracting ignitor from distributor and running wires out to position it on strut tower. No more overheating!!!
i had a 94 civic that would cook the ignition module every couple weeks. it, plus the coil was inside the distributor. i relocated both coil and module on fender well and never had another issue
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Old September 19th, 2018, 02:53 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg737 View Post
Yeah, could be ignition heat related, but what are you gonna do? The EX250's ignition control box is located way back on the left hand side of the bike, it's in about the coolest location you could possibly put it.
I think it's known by now that our 250s don't have an ignition unit overheat problem in general. If the unit quits when it gets hot, something is wrong with it, and it's probably planning to quit completely before long.
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Old September 19th, 2018, 05:13 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Triple Jim View Post
I think it's known by now that our 250s don't have an ignition unit overheat problem in general. If the unit quits when it gets hot, something is wrong with it, and it's probably planning to quit completely before long.
I'm trying to figure out what you're saying to me, but I can't. The first sentence completely refutes any possibility of an ignition box overheat, then the second sentence muses about the possible future ramifications of an ignition box overheat.
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Old September 19th, 2018, 05:31 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by greg737 View Post
I'm trying to figure out what you're saying to me, but I can't. The first sentence completely refutes any possibility of an ignition box overheat, then the second sentence muses about the possible future ramifications of an ignition box overheat.
The first statement was saying it's not a commen issue to see our box overheat in the factory location.
Triple Jim was trying to say if the box is indeed overheating, then that indicates a faulty box.
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Old September 19th, 2018, 11:31 PM   #13
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Seems Jim's method of testing for spark from coil is next step in gathering valuable data.
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