Who Says Tapered Steering Head Bearings Are Best?

[tgold]

I've heard the subject mentioned one time before, but seeing this picture today reminded me that different isn't necessarily better. There is a small group of riders who stick with ball bearings in their steering head because they say they provide a better feel. This is a picture of the lower triple clamp from Valentino Rossi's 2013 MotoGP bike:

[SLOWn60]

Originally Posted by tgold

I've heard the subject mentioned one time before, but seeing this picture today reminded me that different isn't necessarily better. There is a small group of riders who stick with ball bearings in their steering head because they say they provide a better feel. This is a picture of the lower triple clamp from Valentino Rossi's 2013 MotoGP bike:

That picture was released to throw off the other teams!

[CC Cowboy]

How did you get Rossi's lower triple clamp on your bench?

[HoneyBadgerRy]

Originally Posted by SLOWn60

That picture was released to throw off the other teams!

[tgold]

Originally Posted by CC Cowboy

How did you get Rossi's lower triple clamp on your bench?

I have so much money for racing that I have my part trays made out of carbon fiber

[RickM]

Define best.

Best for what? longevity?
Feedback/ Feel?

[dcj13]

Originally Posted by RickM

Define best.

Best for what? longevity?
Feedback/ Feel?

With respect to tapered SHBs: Longevity (and reduced maintenance intervals).

[RickM]

Originally Posted by dcj13

With respect to tapered SHBs: Longevity (and reduced maintenance intervals).

right on!!

Best is different for different type of riding.

So I would say tapered rollers vs balls is a matter of end user preference.

I have ball bearings in my track bikes and I switch to tapered rollers on all my street bikes when the original wears out

[tgold]

Originally Posted by RickM

Define best.

Best for what? longevity?
Feedback/ Feel?

That's pretty much my point. It depends on what you're after. Though a cursory look on the internet would lead you to believe that ball type steering head bearings have no redeeming value and were invented by the Devil himself.

[dcj13]

Originally Posted by tgold

That's pretty much my point. It depends on what you're after. Though a cursory look on the internet would lead you to believe that ball type steering head bearings have no redeeming value and were invented by the Devil himself.

True.

[choneofakind]

Those are also probably fresh balls every race, likely a proprietary bearing race design, proprietary materials, etc etc.

[SLOWn60]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Those are also probably fresh balls every race, likely a proprietary bearing race design, proprietary materials, etc etc.

They have bigger balls than regular street & race riders!

[cuong-nutz]

I prefer free balls over caged balls.

[choneofakind]

Free range balls! They're happier than caged balls!

[Linkin]

Going commando provides better feel

[psych0hans]

I like where this thread is going...

[2fiddy-trackpair]

All balls are good lol. All balls makes a tapered bearing set for almost any bike out there. I have run both. Tapered gives you longer intervals on service and last longer but if not set up right you will lose some feedback at the bars.

[hfd1 tuner]

Originally Posted by tgold

I have so much money for racing that I have my part trays made out of carbon fiber

When you have to pack all yo poop up and fly it around the world bet you light is good.

On topic of bearings round balls have lower friction but they dent the race a lot easier in a tumble causing notchy steering. My preference is the taper roller. I find it funny that some racers have a idea that stiff steering dampers are good but the races and bearings are a choice.

[tgold]

Originally Posted by hfd1 tuner

When you have to pack all yo poop up and fly it around the world bet you light is good.

On topic of bearings round balls have lower friction but they dent the race a lot easier in a tumble causing notchy steering. My preference is the taper roller. I find it funny that some racers have a idea that stiff steering dampers are good but the races and bearings are a choice.

I am aware that shipping weight is a big deal for MotoGP teams and that is the real reason why they have Carbon fiber parts trays. Just making a little joke.

I agree with you about overly stiff steering dampers. I only dial them up enough for them to do their job. For the most part, steering dampers are not a performance item in my opinion. They are for safety and I cannot comprehend why people pay $400.00 plus for something that really has no performance value. That's why I try to use the old NHK dampers whenever possible. They are cheap, adjustable and well-proven. I usually find them for less than $30.00 on ebay. The fun part is getting them to fit because of their relatively short throw.

[RacinNinja]

I took my Suzuki factory damper, drained it, flushed it and added thicker oil. Works like a champ, never have any headshake no matter what I'm doing.

[chugs]

Originally Posted by RacinNinja

I took my Suzuki factory damper, drained it, flushed it and added thicker oil. Works like a champ, never have any headshake no matter what I'm doing.

What he said.

[hfd1 tuner]

Head shake is a direct issue of poor geometry or rider input at wrong time. seen loose head bearings cause a shimmy but speed wobbles are mostly geometry issues. How many times have you seen a bike eject rider only to snap dead straight and keep rolling. Bikes are self correcting...now old gp 500 bikes them be a whole different ballgame...

[Rifleman]

This is where I get my replacement triple tree and wheel bearings.

http://www.allballsracing.com/

I'm going to have to agree with the shorter, but better life. When new, and properly set up, the steering head feels like it's melted butter (budda')

Originally Posted by hfd1 tuner

Head shake is a direct issue of poor geometry or rider input at wrong time. seen loose head bearings cause a shimmy but speed wobbles are mostly geometry issues. How many times have you seen a bike eject rider only to snap dead straight and keep rolling. Bikes are self correcting...now old gp 500 bikes them be a whole different ballgame...

I will agree, but what one man calls "Poor geometry" another calls "aggressive hyper sport geometry". The quicker one can go from vertical to knee down, the longer you can stay on the throttle, later you can brake, and quicker you can turn.

Jet fighters dance on the aerodynamicaly unstable line. The aircraft wants to turn all the time, the pilot just tell it when, and which direction. The same can be said for high performance bikes. It wants to fall over all the time, you just tell it when and which way. I've seen at least one vid where pilot comes off the bike, and it continues the turn. Most bikes will stand up and go straight when your hands come off the bars. A well set up GP bike is literally balanced on the razors edge.

[hfd1 tuner]

By poor I should say misaligned. Trail is a rider preference thing some like a short bike while others like a longer trail that gives more feedback. For a reference the KTM 390 is VERY short low 80's vs GSXR600 102 both bikes turn in is very good i.e knee down...the whole knee down thing is a heated topic in itself...But both bikes have a very different feel mid corner out one very stable arc the other you need to maintain a feel on the bars that holds the bike in the arc. The shorter bike seems to travel from one side to the other nice while the longer trail needs more lever to go side to side. Trade offs are ft end feel and stability. Hi speed wobbles are a battle between ft and rear effects caused by misalignments they can be induced by frame flex under power or braking. Bikes are much more than ft forks and rear shock. Yes All Balls are the ones I use as well.

[TnNinjaGirl]

That's not Valentino Rossi's garage.

[SLOWn60]

Originally Posted by TnNinjaGirl

That's not Valentino Rossi's garage.

I had heard he had groupies

[RacinNinja]

I've always replaced the balls with tapered roller bearings. For me they are smoother, less prone to damage and easier maintenance too.

[Ninjinsky]

Once you have bought enough used classic bikes with 'straight ahead detented' ball races which you have had to source and replace you will appreciate the benefit of taper rollers.