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Old July 13th, 2017, 02:08 PM   #1
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Ninja 400 Caught on Tape!

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/...-in-milwaukee/

http://www.motorcycle.com/features/o...ninja-400.html

Kawasaki was filming a new commercial in Milwaukee, and a zoomed photo reveals that they were riding.... a Ninja 400. Likely closer to a scaled up 300 - a parallel twin - and not the sleeved down 650 that is seen abroad.



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Old July 13th, 2017, 03:18 PM   #2
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Not too happy about it becoming a 400. They already screwed up a perfectly good 250 racing class with the 300. Just when people accept the 300, they pull this. More engine size with more cost = no net gain. Would have been much happier with a 300 that has nice adjustable USD forks.

Japan needs to realize that the ultralights need standardization in the same way 600's and 1000's do.
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Old July 13th, 2017, 04:56 PM   #3
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sweet. 400 cubes is a happy middle ground. make it look like a proper supersport, none of this snout nose silliness like the 650 and 1000. And make it a proper full size bike so I don't feel like I'm cramped up on a toy. But keep it a twin and make it a revver so it's still light and fun and usable.
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Old July 13th, 2017, 05:29 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Zaph42 View Post
Not too happy about it becoming a 400. They already screwed up a perfectly good 250 racing class with the 300. Just when people accept the 300, they pull this. More engine size with more cost = no net gain. Would have been much happier with a 300 that has nice adjustable USD forks.

Japan needs to realize that the ultralights need standardization in the same way 600's and 1000's do.
Americans always want bigger!
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Old July 13th, 2017, 05:35 PM   #5
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Heh heh heh everyone who just built up R3s for the track are gonna pout a bit

Heck it could end up being a worthless track turd like the honda 500. We'll just have to wait a bit and see.
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Old July 14th, 2017, 06:54 AM   #6
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Old July 15th, 2017, 02:04 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kestrel View Post
Kawasaki was filming a new commercial in Milwaukee, and a zoomed photo reveals that they were riding.... a Ninja 400. Likely closer to a scaled up 300 - a parallel twin - and not the sleeved down 650 that is seen abroad.
According to Wiki the 400R (sleeved down 650) came out in 2011 so it would probably be due for a refresh anyway. I'm hoping it's replacement is the scaled up 300 as you suggested. Another 10hp, some better suspension and no extra weight would make a great track bike. The only bike I would want more in this class would be if they started making modern versions of the FZR400, VFR400 or ZXR400
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Old July 15th, 2017, 05:55 PM   #8
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Kawasaki will more than likely just use an existing 400cc engine from the Ninja 400.
http://www.kawasaki-motors.com/mc/lineup/ninja400/


Kawasaki Ninja 400
399cc Parallel Twin
Bore: 68.4mm
Stroke: 54.3mm
Compression Ratio: 11:1
Power: 32kW (43hp) @9,500rpm
Torque: 44Nm (32.45lb-ft) @7,500rpm
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Old July 15th, 2017, 05:58 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Zaph42 View Post
Not too happy about it becoming a 400. They already screwed up a perfectly good 250 racing class with the 300. Just when people accept the 300, they pull this. More engine size with more cost = no net gain. Would have been much happier with a 300 that has nice adjustable USD forks.

Japan needs to realize that the ultralights need standardization in the same way 600's and 1000's do.
I don't know about that.
In USA/Canada, people like big engines. The vast majority of people will get bored of mere 250cc engine in 1-2 weeks.

KTM RC390 is RC125 with big engine. Yamaha R3 is R25/R15/R125 overseas.
Same as CBR300R, which is 250.

When Suzuki introduced GSXR250 couple months ago in USA/Canada, the first complaints were "what was Suzuki thinking? How are they gonna compete with 300cc motorcycles?"
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Old July 15th, 2017, 07:33 PM   #10
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Here we go again, big ol displacement one up each other circle jerk.
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Old July 15th, 2017, 07:38 PM   #11
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Makes me glad I still have my old 250.
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Old July 15th, 2017, 11:18 PM   #12
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LOL This is great!

Kawasaki too a risk and started its own 300cc market.
Inevitably all the competitors started making 300cc bikes.. Yamaha R3, KTM RC390, Honda CBR300R, BMW G310R, etc..

So now Kawasaki will create its own 400cc market.

We're gonna see Yamaha YZF-R4, Honda CBR400R, KTM RC400, BMW G400R, etc.
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Old July 16th, 2017, 04:56 AM   #13
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Sounds like follow the leader.
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Old July 16th, 2017, 06:01 AM   #14
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So... just spitballing here:

The 400 is going to have to be uniquely different from the 650, right? Otherwise it would take sales from the 650. So does this mean they'll can the 650? or will the 400 be a ripper? or will they can the 300? Or will they have a 300, 400, and 650 all in the same lineup?

There's a lot of ways they could go with this, and each option has some reason that makes it not make sense. I'm hoping they keep the existing 300 to keep the entry rider and ninjette racing class. Keep the 650 as the middleweight sensible bike. Then make the 400 engine a high strung, high revving ripper (go ahead and base it off the sleeved down 650 engine, but up the compression and put in hot cams and a high flowing head and a high flow intake) and make the chassis (with budget parts to keep cost down) the geometry of a proper supersport. Aggressive, tight, and snappy, but smaller engine that can still be wound out on real roads.

That way the 300 is entry sport and the 650 is middleweight sport, while the 400 becomes entry level for the ZX line. For once, I'd be okay if they did their typical cheapo suspension in this scenario. Would that make sense? Maybe. But it's still too many bikes in the lineup and I bet it's just a pipe dream on my part.

I'm guessing they'll end up using this bike to replace either the 300 or the 650 and make it an EX rather than making it the entry ZX.
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Old July 16th, 2017, 01:39 PM   #15
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Americans always want bigger!
Not true... I've seen plenty of huge things I didn't want much to do with; fun to play with and look at but no good for actual um nvm
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Old July 16th, 2017, 02:31 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by choneofakind View Post
So... just spitballing here:

The 400 is going to have to be uniquely different from the 650, right? Otherwise it would take sales from the 650. So does this mean they'll can the 650? or will the 400 be a ripper? or will they can the 300? Or will they have a 300, 400, and 650 all in the same lineup?

There's a lot of ways they could go with this, and each option has some reason that makes it not make sense. I'm hoping they keep the existing 300 to keep the entry rider and ninjette racing class. Keep the 650 as the middleweight sensible bike. Then make the 400 engine a high strung, high revving ripper (go ahead and base it off the sleeved down 650 engine, but up the compression and put in hot cams and a high flowing head and a high flow intake) and make the chassis (with budget parts to keep cost down) the geometry of a proper supersport. Aggressive, tight, and snappy, but smaller engine that can still be wound out on real roads.

That way the 300 is entry sport and the 650 is middleweight sport, while the 400 becomes entry level for the ZX line. For once, I'd be okay if they did their typical cheapo suspension in this scenario. Would that make sense? Maybe. But it's still too many bikes in the lineup and I bet it's just a pipe dream on my part.

I'm guessing they'll end up using this bike to replace either the 300 or the 650 and make it an EX rather than making it the entry ZX.
lol do you really think they're gonna replace the Ninja 650 with 400?
The Ninja 650 just came out, brand new for 2017...and do you think they're gonna replace it for Ninja 400?

If anything, they will kill the 300 and replace it with 400.
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Old July 16th, 2017, 02:47 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timpo View Post
Kawasaki will more than likely just use an existing 400cc engine from the Ninja 400.
http://www.kawasaki-motors.com/mc/lineup/ninja400/


Kawasaki Ninja 400
399cc Parallel Twin
Bore: 68.4mm
Stroke: 54.3mm
Compression Ratio: 11:1
Power: 32kW (43hp) @9,500rpm
Torque: 44Nm (32.45lb-ft) @7,500rpm
I don't think so, one reason is that the current Ninja 400 is a turd. With only 43hp but carrying a massive 448 pounds (wet) versus the current 300 at 39hp and 385 pounds.
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Old July 16th, 2017, 02:51 PM   #18
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I don't think so, one reason is that the current Ninja 400 is a turd. With only 43hp but carrying a massive 448 pounds (wet) versus the current 300 at 39hp and 385 pounds.
That's what I mean.

The 2018 Ninja 400 will definitely be lighter than the 448 lb bike (2016 Ninja 400) that you're talking about.
With 400cc 43hp engine, it will be more than enough to carry a 2018 Ninja 400.

I doubt Kawasaki will develop a brand new engine from scratch just for that 2018 Ninja 400 especially if it doesn't need extra hp, in a entry level category where they're targeting price conscious buyers.
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Old July 16th, 2017, 03:05 PM   #19
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lol do you really think they're gonna replace the Ninja 650 with 400?
The Ninja 650 just came out, brand new for 2017...and do you think they're gonna replace it for Ninja 400?

If anything, they will kill the 300 and replace it with 400.
Easy there, Killer.

Like I said:
Quote:
There's a lot of ways they could go with this, and each option has some reason that makes it not make sense.
Depending on what they do with engine tune and weight, as mentioned above, it could actually end up with a decent power to weight ratio if they keep it to 350 lbs and make it put out 48-50 hp. Seeing how the 300 makes around 34 hp at the wheel and 400cc's would be 1/3 again the displacement, that's not completely out of line.

You might think my pipe dream is ridiculous and you're probably right that they'll make it the 300 replacement, but there's at least some logic behind my thought process. I'm hoping for a proper light weight entry super sport; don't prematurely kill my dreams, mang!

Sidenote: if all they do is use the existing sleeved-down 650 engine... imagine the relative ease of bumping up the horsepower.
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Old July 24th, 2017, 11:39 AM   #20
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While I don't see Kawasaki making a new engine for a 400cc sport bike, you guys could be overlooking an engine option that is available to Kawasaki.

Rather than use a sleeved down 650,

What if the Ninja 400 uses the KX450F dirt bike engine?

That's a light weight liquid cooled 54 HP (at the rear wheel) single cylinder engine. Drop that in the Ninja 300 chassis with some upgraded suspension and brakes and you would have a fun little bike.

Last futzed with by VaFish; July 25th, 2017 at 09:51 AM.
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Old July 24th, 2017, 02:27 PM   #21
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While I don't see Kawasaki making a new engine for a 400cc sport bike, you guys could be overlooking an engine option that is available to Kawasaki.

Rather than use a sleeved down 650,

What if the Ninja 400 uses the KX450F dirt bike engine?

That's a light weight liquid cooled 54 HP single cylinder engine. Drop that in the Ninja 300 chassis with some upgraded suspension and brakes and you would have a fun little bike.
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Old July 28th, 2017, 11:31 AM   #22
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And VisorDown thinks it might say 420, not 400.

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-...0%93-or-it-420

Maybe it really is a 450 not a 420?
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Old July 28th, 2017, 11:57 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by VaFish View Post
And VisorDown thinks it might say 420, not 400.

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-...0%93-or-it-420

Maybe it really is a 450 not a 420?

426 or 436 sounds better...
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Old July 28th, 2017, 07:41 PM   #24
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426 or 436 sounds better...
426 only sounds better if it is followed by "Hemi"
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Old July 29th, 2017, 12:57 AM   #25
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You guys are missing the facts of the WORLD, which is normal for USA ��
The 2007 250 was just an update. Then European learner laws changed to being power output based rather than CC, so Kawasaki scaled up the 250 to 300, to meet that power limit, as all bigger bikes make way to much power & the 250 was a ways off.

In much of the rest of the world it's still sold as a 250. USA got the 300 because they have no laws around 250's. In Japan they have a 400cc limit class, so you often see sleeved down or bored out versions of other bikes. Companies often film adverts in other countries for effect & never sell that model in the country where the filming took place ! You may be the victims of this, as it could be a Japan only model, but US influence sells well in Japan, so they might have filmed it in US for effect. You may or may not see the 400, only time will tell.
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Old July 29th, 2017, 04:42 AM   #26
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You guys are missing the facts of the WORLD, which is normal for USA ��
The 2007 250 was just an update. Then European learner laws changed to being power output based rather than CC, so Kawasaki scaled up the 250 to 300, to meet that power limit, as all bigger bikes make way to much power & the 250 was a ways off.

In much of the rest of the world it's still sold as a 250. USA got the 300 because they have no laws around 250's. In Japan they have a 400cc limit class, so you often see sleeved down or bored out versions of other bikes. Companies often film adverts in other countries for effect & never sell that model in the country where the filming took place ! You may be the victims of this, as it could be a Japan only model, but US influence sells well in Japan, so they might have filmed it in US for effect. You may or may not see the 400, only time will tell.
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Old July 29th, 2017, 07:01 AM   #27
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426 only sounds better if it is followed by "Hemi"
Yup. The kids may not get that one.

What is it about ending in a "6" that sounds so good?

426...396...636...
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Old July 29th, 2017, 12:17 PM   #28
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Yup. The kids may not get that one.

What is it about ending in a "6" that sounds so good?

426...396...636...
It's Sixy!
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Old July 31st, 2017, 09:00 AM   #29
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Inline 6. Flat 6.
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Old July 31st, 2017, 09:12 AM   #30
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Old July 31st, 2017, 03:39 PM   #31
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And VisorDown thinks it might say 420, not 400.

http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-...0%93-or-it-420
It's green and a 420? Guess I'll be naming the next bike Mary-Jane then
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Old July 31st, 2017, 06:39 PM   #32
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It's green and a 420? Guess I'll be naming the next bike Mary-Jane then
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Old August 4th, 2017, 09:42 AM   #33
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Its going to be a Ninja650 with gastric bypass
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Old August 6th, 2017, 08:18 AM   #34
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Its going to be a Ninja650 with gastric bypass
Well that's what the current Ninja 400 is. We are hoping Kawasaki has something better planned.
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Old August 23rd, 2017, 09:22 PM   #35
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I was talking to a dealership today and he said we should know details very very soon. : )
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Old August 24th, 2017, 09:15 AM   #36
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In USA/Canada, people like big engines. The vast majority of people will get bored of mere 250cc engine in 1-2 weeks.
My 2fiddy kept me happy for 5 years I still love the engine in it. Feels like I'm riding everywhere at 300mph when I'm barely braking the speed limit
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Old August 24th, 2017, 01:37 PM   #37
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My 2fiddy kept me happy for 5 years I still love the engine in it. Feels like I'm riding everywhere at 300mph when I'm barely braking the speed limit
Yep, like the old saying "It's better to ride a Slow Bike fast than a Fast Bike slow."
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Old August 25th, 2017, 09:36 PM   #38
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Bigger isn't always better. Like many I'd prefer to see a more refined 300 (or even stepping back to a 250 with FI...not that it would happen in the US).

Generally I'd just like to see consistency for more than 4 or 5 years. Makes it easier to form racing classes/leagues around a displacement. That and it means there will be more bikes on the used market which fit that class.



And on a final note, I hate to see the demise of affordable, entry level bikes. Motorcycling is on the decline in the US as it is. Making new bikes more expensive means it's less and less accessible, especially to young riders.

IMO the sooner they can start the more likely they are to become enthusiasts. I see far too many people who talk about it, but find it expensive and end up waiting until they are 35 to start. They buy a bike, ride it a few times and family life, understandably, means the bike sits. They never become as ingrained in the sport as a 21 year old who has few responsibilities besides themselves can.
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Old August 26th, 2017, 06:09 PM   #39
Timpo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustRidin View Post
Bigger isn't always better. Like many I'd prefer to see a more refined 300 (or even stepping back to a 250 with FI...not that it would happen in the US).

Generally I'd just like to see consistency for more than 4 or 5 years. Makes it easier to form racing classes/leagues around a displacement. That and it means there will be more bikes on the used market which fit that class.



And on a final note, I hate to see the demise of affordable, entry level bikes. Motorcycling is on the decline in the US as it is. Making new bikes more expensive means it's less and less accessible, especially to young riders.

IMO the sooner they can start the more likely they are to become enthusiasts. I see far too many people who talk about it, but find it expensive and end up waiting until they are 35 to start. They buy a bike, ride it a few times and family life, understandably, means the bike sits. They never become as ingrained in the sport as a 21 year old who has few responsibilities besides themselves can.
Americans love big engines. It's a fact.

Small displacement motorcycles are available in Asia and Europe (as you probably know already) but if any of these bikes come to the US, they won't sell simply because the engine is too small.

Honda CBR150RR


Kawsaki Ninja 150RR


Yamaha YZF-R15


Suzuki GSX-150R


KTM RC125


Sym Wolf 125


Hyosung GT125R
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Old August 26th, 2017, 07:49 PM   #40
Yakaru
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Motorcycle(s): Perigee (250), Hotaru (250), Saturn (300), Pearl (300), Zero (S1000RR), Chibi (Z125), Xellos ('18 HP4R)

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timpo View Post
Americans love big engines. It's a fact.

Small displacement motorcycles are available in Asia and Europe (as you probably know already) but if any of these bikes come to the US, they won't sell simply because the engine is too small.
I sort of see your point but the Grom and Z125 seem to be doing okay -- I own a Z125 myself. Can't speak for the rest of the country but the real "issue" I have is if you live in a region where highways are required to get somewhere that's where it becomes problematic - they're either literally illegal (for many highways the law requires over 150ccs) or they're at redline and still slower than traffic. I love my 125 but I could never use it as a primary.
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