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Old July 12th, 2010, 12:51 PM   #1
altomista
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Need help diagnosing: Bike keeps dying

Okay, I've been working on a friend's bike. It's been dying on him several times and I'm just about out of ideas. This last time was rather troubling because I double checked my work and it ran perfectly fine. I don't know what exactly he's doing, but it's bugging me. Maybe someone can chime in and help out.

My friend picked up a bike that had been sitting for some time, 4 or 5 years. Miraculously, when I threw a new battery (12A-A) in at the place he bought it at, it ran fine so we rode it back home with no noticeable problems except to do maintenance on it, especially a valve check and carb cleaning, and replace some wear items.

First round of maintenance included cleaning out the air filter, oil and oil filter change, coolant flush, and lubing the cables. We also wrestled the battery strap into place, due to the bigger one the seller gave us.

He takes it and heads home on a rather hot day. Later on in a text message from him, he tells me that the bike is "over heating" and the bike wants stall out on occassion. He brings it back to me later in the week to do the other bits of maintenance and I discover messing with the battery strap and airbox caused the boots to slip off the back of the carbs. No biggie since I'm cleaning them out. The coolant level was between the lines on the expansion tank and hasn't over heated since.

This time I replace the chain and sprockets, tires, clean the carburetors, replace the spark plugs and adjust the valves. My friend takes the tank and a few of the fairing pieces to paint. The carbs only had a few minor bits of rust in the bowls, but I didn't think much of them--I couldn't see any rust in the tank from the filler hole. I reassemble and put them back in. I also find that the battery strap is causing the airbox bow out against the battery and I can't reseat the boots onto the carbs so I remove the battery strap. That solves that problem, so then I address the motor.

I find that someone had put in plugs two hotter than spec (CR6HSA). I put in the proper ones (CR8HSA) in after I gap them to .610mm and put anti seize paste on them. I end up finding that I only need to adjust two intake valves (#2-cyl.) and everything else is within spec. I button everything up and sync the carburetors.

My friend takes the bikes and he brings it back 20 minutes later because it keeps stalling out on him. I promptly check to see if his ignitor's resistances are fine (they don't all match up to the manual) so I also stick it on my bike and it works perfectly. I take my ignitor and put it on his bike and I get the same symptoms. I check the resistances between the two and they match up, more or less.

I figure it's fuel related and I get around to working on it yesterday. I pull out the carburetors again and I find deposits of rust and aluminium in the bowls. The pilot jets and mini passageways on the main jet are clogged. I clean everything out again and this time I put an inline fuel filter. I let the bike idle for about 20 minutes until it reaches full operating temperature and everything seems fine so I go for a short 5 minute (1.5 mi.) ride around the neighborhood checking all parts of the rev band, and let it idle for about another 5 minutes--no stalling or problems. I sync the carburetors and let it idle for another 5 minutes and no problems.

My friend takes the bike back and somehow it stalls out on him after he gets off the highway off ramp by his house. He said it started up fine and he didn't experience any problems until he got off the highway. Fuel is flowing the filter and there is fuel in the filter. It won't run unless he keeps the throttle open. The bike will start and promptly stall.

I forgot to mention, this is a 49-state bike without the emissions garbage.

So that's everything since the beginning. Any ideas?

UPDATE: 14 July 2010

I heard back from my friend about the bike. Neither I or him have done anything to the bike since it died out on him the other day. He managed to push it back home that day and stuck it in his indoor garage.

Anyways, it's an indoor garage with no sunlight. The temperature inside was 65 degrees F sometime during the day. He was able to start it with a slight bit of throttle with no choke. He ran it for two minutes and it idled like it normally would.

He started it up later that same night with a little choke. He was able ride it around (don't know for how long) and it worked fine. After his ride, he said he was able to restart it without any use of the choke.

About the painting, he said he laid a light amount of paint on and around the gas lid. However, the problem of it cutting out/stalling/dying/whatever is actually going on was already present before the painting.

From the sounds of it, a vapor locking issue is the cause, no? I'm waiting to hear back from him again about it. He hasn't gone on a long ride. I've already instructed him that should the bike stall out again to open the gas cap and listen for the sound of rushing air. That's about all I can do without the bike in my garage.
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Old July 12th, 2010, 01:28 PM   #2
kkim
 
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try popping the gas cap and see if that helps. perhaps a tank venting problem?

also, when the bike seems to overheat, what is the temp gauge reading?
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Old July 12th, 2010, 01:47 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by altomista View Post

I find that someone had put in plugs two colder than spec (CR6HSA). I put in the proper ones (CR8HSA) in after I gap them to .610mm and put anti seize paste on them.

6 is hotter than 8.
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Old July 12th, 2010, 05:32 PM   #4
altomista
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kkim View Post
try popping the gas cap and see if that helps. perhaps a tank venting problem?

also, when the bike seems to overheat, what is the temp gauge reading?
I've been hearing a lot of the venting issues. I'll try popping the gas tank when I get the bike back from him.

I forgot to mention, this is a 49-state bike without the emissions garbage.

He hasn't mentioned the overheating since he mentioned it that day. I never did get a clear answer out of him about where the needle was that day--I still don't and it doesn't help when diagnosing over the phone. The coolant was between the two lines on the expansion tank, but I topped it off anyways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HKr1 View Post
6 is hotter than 8.
My mistake. Thanks.
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Old July 12th, 2010, 07:15 PM   #5
kkim
 
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Al,

Also, check the fuel petcock internal screen filter. Perhaps it's clogged from rust in the tank and limits the fuel rate that can flow thereby leaning out his mixture when he needs lots of gas (on the freeway)?

also... can you clarify what you mean by the bike "stalls" on him... quits running suddenly, sputters slowly to dead, ...???
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Old July 14th, 2010, 06:29 PM   #6
altomista
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Name: Al
Location: San Jose, CA
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Motorcycle(s): 2006 EX250F6FL, 1986 ZX600A2, 1975 Honda CB550

Posts: 39
UPDATE:

I heard back from my friend about the bike. Neither I or him have done anything to the bike since it died out on him the other day. He managed to push it back home that day and stuck it in his indoor garage.

Anyways, it's an indoor garage with no sunlight. The temperature inside was 65 degrees F sometime during the day. He was able to start it with a slight bit of throttle with no choke. He ran it for two minutes and it idled like it normally would.

He started it up later that same night with a little choke. He was able ride it around (don't know for how long) and it worked fine. After his ride, he said he was able to restart it without any use of the choke.

About the painting, he said he laid a light amount of paint on and around the gas lid. However, the problem of it cutting out/stalling/dying/whatever is actually going on was already present before the painting.

From the sounds of it, a vapor locking issue is the cause, no? I'm waiting to hear back from him again about it. He hasn't gone on a long ride. I've already instructed him that should the bike stall out again to open the gas cap and listen for the sound of rushing air. That's about all I can do without the bike in my garage.
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Old July 14th, 2010, 06:58 PM   #7
kkim
 
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yes... and if popping the gas cap doesn't solve the problem, at least we'll know it's not a venting issue and can proceed from there.
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