Greenaero's Ninja Hypermiling project

[greenaero]

@JeffM, I'm very sorry I didn't get a chance to visit with you on the way there and back, I got squeezed for time and took the southern route to Missouri. I'll be riding to Wendover and look forward to seeing you and your streamliner there!

@NevadaWolf: Yes, 8/29/2014. It would be great to meet you in person and hopefully you can join us in the Vetter Challenge. All motorcycles are invited to ride with us even if they can't carry the required 4 paper sack cargo. I'm a bit prejudiced but I think it's a pretty cool event. It should be even more special with the close proximity of the LSR streamliners.

[NevadaWolf]

Bwhaha, yeah right, my measly little mileage is going to get no where near what you guys are pulling.

But coming out and seeing what is going on will definitely be fun. But, ugh, I am not sure if I can make it on a Friday, is it just the one day?

[greenaero]

I'm leaving for Wendover Utah and the next Vetter Challenge tonmorrow morning. The competition will be on 8/29. I finished 3rd overall in the Mid-Ohio Vetter challenge and 2nd for conventional fueled bikes though I was disappointed with a 127 mpg run. I hope to have another good showing in Wendover. Wish me luck.

[Racer x]

Good luck Wendover is my favorite place to be .

[Motofool]

Wish you best luck

[greenaero]

Thanks! It will be alot of fun. No telling what Alan and Fred have been working on since the last competition and Terry Hershner will be there with his electric bike. I've been traveling so much lately I haven't been abke to do much work on the moto. It will be interesting.

[csmith12]

Good luck and git'r done!

[algs26]

Is this your competition?



original size of cropped pic
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3839/...a10e7beb_o.jpg

[algs26]

Was a zero.
http://www.craigvetter.com

[greenaero]

@algs26, yes, that's Terry Hershner who was the overall winner of the Wendover Vetter Challenge. I finished 4th overall and 2nd Place in the conventional class. Fred Hayes won in the alternative fuel class and ALan Smith won in the conventional fuel class. It was a very cool event with 6 fully streamlined motos competing. I owe everyone a full writeup and will post it soon but in the interum here are some of the details http://craigvetter.com/pages/2014-Ch...Challenge.html

[greenaero]

Fridy I'll be riding down to San Luis Obispo for the last Vetter hallenge of the year. The only change I've made since the Wendover Challenge has been to add some wheel discs to the front and rear wheels. In theory it should be a small improvement in reducing aerodynamic drag. Terry, Alan and Craig will be competing so going for the overall win will be tough. Our fuel economy run will be part of the Central Coast Motorcyle Show so there will be lots of bikers and fun in San Luis this weekend. http://www.centralcoastclassicmc.com/
Wish me luck! thx GA

[JeffM]

Good luck Vic. Say hi to Alan and the rest. Still on a building hiatus with my streamliner. Right now just enjoying riding.

I'd like to see photos of your wheel discs.

[greenaero]

Originally Posted by JeffM

Good luck Vic. Say hi to Alan and the rest. Still on a building hiatus with my streamliner. Right now just enjoying riding.

I'd like to see photos of your wheel discs.

Thanks Jeff! I'm glad you are doing lots of ridng. I'll give your regards to Aan and the rest of the Vetter Challenge circus. I'll post some pictures after I get back from competing in San Luis Obispo. I've been busy getting the streamliner ready and will be leaving tomorrow morning.
all the best , Vic

[Somchai]

@greenaero, let me also wish you good luck.
For me it's fascinating what you're doing, have a good competition.

[JohnnyBravo]

Have a good ride! How does an electric bike fit into gas saving?

[greenaero]

@Somchai and @JohnnyBravo , Thank you!
The Vetter Challenge is won by the competitor that travels the scheduled distance ( at the determined pace) and incurs the lowest fuel cost so the results are calculated in cents/ mile . That is how gasoline, diesel and electric fueled ( or any other fuel ) are able to compete against each other just as they do in the real world. Electric bikes costs are determined by the amount of kilowatt-hours used at the local utilty rate plus the road taxes paid by the closest pump fuel ( diesel or gasoline ) competitor.
If the Vetter Challenge included vehicle costs in the calculations I would have won every Challenge that I have entered. I am definitely the total bang for the buck champ.

[Somchai]

Originally Posted by greenaero

@Somchai and @JohnnyBravo , Thank you!
The Vetter Challenge is won by the competitor that travels the scheduled distance ( at the determined pace) and incurs the lowest fuel cost so the results are calculated in cents/ mile . That is how gasoline, diesel and electric fueled ( or any other fuel ) are able to compete against each other just as they do in the real world. Electric bikes costs are determined by the amount of kilowatt-hours used at the local utilty rate plus the road taxes paid by the closest pump fuel ( diesel or gasoline ) competitor.
If the Vetter Challenge included vehicle costs in the calculations I would have won every Challenge that I have entered. I am definitely the total bang for the buck champ.

Vic, thank you very much for this detailed and interesting informations, I didn't know that all.
I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

[Rustitution]

First time seeing this thread and I have to say it is awesome thank you so much I learned a whole lot.

[greenaero]

Thanks for all your good wishes!!! They came true; I was the overall winner of the 2014 San Luis Obispo Vetter Challenge with cost/mile result of 1.76cents/ mile ( 160 miles/$2.80 spent for gasoline ) and 187 MPG !! I still can't quite wrap my mind around this. Conditions were perfect for me and I had a great run. Thank you all for encouragement and support.

[Klondike1020]

Originally Posted by greenaero

187 MPG !

i didnt know that was possible. How could you do any better than that?> thats better mpgs than a puch moped?

[greenaero]

^^^ Agreed, but I suspect next year in at the Ohio Challenge the 200 mpg barrier will be broken. I used to think 150-160 was the upper limit until Alan and Fred Hayes shattered it.

[Klondike1020]

Originally Posted by greenaero

^^^ Agreed, but I suspect next year in at the Ohio Challenge the 200 mpg barrier will be broken. I used to think 150-160 was the upper limit until Alan and Fred Hayes shattered it.

how will these improvements be made?

You might want to look into the thermo electric mods. I mean 2% of 180 is a significant difference in close competition?

@ greenaero. where is the radiator on our bike? and how do you put air through it without reducing aerodynamics? also have you removed your cooling fan or do you need it when you are stuck at a stand still in the heat?

Also I was thinking you could build solar panels into your crazy giant fairings for recharging your battery while you are parked(it could marginally negate the inability to generate thermally during short trips)

I could see if I could get you some decent damaged solar panels you could extract cells from. Then adhere them to your fairings and coat over the top of them with a transparent epoxy. low weight solar generation. Put them in strings that generate ~14v or so. You would need a rudimentary charge controller

[greenaero]

Originally Posted by Klondike1020

how will these improvements be made?
Engine tuning for more low end torque, reduced roliing resistance ( tires, wheel bearings, reduced disc brake drag) and more aerodynamic improvements.

You might want to look into the thermo electric mods. I mean 2% of 180 is a significant difference in close competition? Definitely every bit helps

@ greenaero. where is the radiator on our bike? and how do you put air through it without reducing aerodynamics? also have you removed your cooling fan or do you need it when you are stuck at a stand still in the heat?

My radiator is srill in the stock location with the the electric fan in place. The fan is definitely needed when stopped in traffic. Air drag from the cooling air flow is reduced by flowing only enough air to keep the engine temperature from overheating.

Also I was thinking you could build solar panels into your crazy giant fairings for recharging your battery while you are parked(it could marginally negate the inability to generate thermally during short trips)

I could see if I could get you some decent damaged solar panels you could extract cells from. Then adhere them to your fairings and coat over the top of them with a transparent epoxy. low weight solar generation. Put them in strings that generate ~14v or so. You would need a rudimentary charge controller

Another good idea to look at this winter for the next cometition season.

Josh, thank you for the interest , great questions and suggestions!!

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by Klondike1020

.......@ greenaero. where is the radiator on our bike? and how do you put air through it without reducing aerodynamics?.........

Very good idea !!!

Please, take a look at these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meredith_effect

http://www.evolutionm.net/forums/mot...ml#post7979044

If properly ducted and electrically ventilated, that huge dragging area of the radiator could be relocated side ways or horizontally.

[Somchai]

187 MPG - what a fantastic number

Big Congratulations Vic

[greenaero]

@Motofool and @Somchai Thank you!!!

[Motofool]

You are welcome

[Klondike1020]

after reading about your build and these competitions I want to get into hyper mile building myself. I am curious if a CB250 may be a better base for a build as thumpers typically suck less fuel? I am thinking EFI brings it own unique set of challenges.

Basically though- I operate on cheap and available ... if its not those two things I dont go for it lol

I wish you were not on the opposite coast , I would totally swing by and check your bike out.
I would love to try to prototype a charging system for it.

I just came across this module- a series of three could generate ~ 14volts @ 1.5 amps around 100C
That seems practical for generation to me? at four bucks a pop you could be making some decent amps.

I am thinking you could pull the fuses on everything on your bike except what it needs to stay running . Then put a multi meter on it and figure out what it draws while operating.

Then do a bit of math with LEDs and minimizing the Cooling fan drain.

Might be able to get by with 12 modules and produce 10amps?

These are all very non scientific guesstimates. Throw some solar cells on either side of your bike. - u could be in business.

[greenaero]

Josh, Great! Hypermiling is challenging , fun and can save you a lot of money. One of the things I enjoy most about it is the opportunity to do something amazing using fairly simple techniques and building methods. I have far surpassed my initial goals and now realize that I can go even further with enough effort.

I wish you were closer too. It would be great to meet you in person and show you my streamliner. One of the things I enjoy the most about the Vetter Challenges is the opportunity to meet other hypermilers , ride with them and to look at their work. One of my friends, Scott Endler , lives in your area, he is an elite motorcycle hypermiler. He is also a member of this forum ( @sendler ). Perhaps you two could meet up. Meeting Craig Vetter and Alan Smith helped me tremendously when I first started streamlining my Ninjette. You should try to attend the Mid- Ohio Vetter Challenge in July. I'll be there as well as all the top dogs of the Vetter Challenge. It's an amazing event .

I'm very excited about my next series of modifications and now that the competition season is over I can start work on testing and implementing them. Thanks again to you and @Motofool for the great suggestions!

[sendler]

Originally Posted by Klondike1020

I am curious if a CB250 may be a better base for a build as thumpers typically suck less fuel? .

My CBR250R gets about 20% better fuel economy than my Ninja250. Singles are better. F.I. is better. and the low revving cams and intake are better.

[JeffM]

Congratulations Vic. 187 =

I see 200mpg for you or Alan next season.

[Rustitution]

WOW 187 way to go man, I'm all about hypermiling but you took it to the extreme, can't wait to see you break 200 now to update you signature lol

[greenaero]

@JeffM and @Rustitution, Thank you!!! 200 MPG is definitely calling for next season.

[JeffM]

I. Must. Finish. Bike.

[250rr]

@greenaero I thought you might like this. On my Dew Kitty 750 SS I achieved 78 mpg. Laid myself over tank. No faster than 60 mph on freeway. Tucked behind a semi probably way too close for 80% of a 50 mile ride.

Normally I get 60 to 65 mpg. I just did it to see if I could get 80 mpg. Close!

[greenaero]

@250rr, Way to go Mark! That is great fuel economy for a 750cc! Hypermiling and air drag reduction definitely works.

[greenaero]

Well ,it looks like my 2015 competition season is done. The Bonneville Vetter Challenge was cancelled and I have a conflict for the San Luis Obispo Challenge which may also be cancelled. 2015 was a pretty good season with 2 close second place finishes for the Hollister and Mid-Ohio Challenges with 163 mpg and 152 mpg respectively. Congratulations to Alan Smith on his 2 wins.

I've developed another aero tweak that I would have liked to test out at the SLO Challenge but it will have to wait for another time.

Craig Vetter is recuperating from his injuries and I still haven't able to visit with him. We continue to pray for a speedy and full recovery.

This winter I may consider changing to a more modern , fuel injected platform for my streamliner. Alan will have his stretched and lowered ninjette running and it looks to be even better than his current effort.

[xXecuterXx2]

Sorry for the bad news, but congrats on that ridiculous number. 187? Thats amazing....

[sendler]

Hi Vic,
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I finally finished my Vetter style aero tail last June and have 11,000 miles on it now. My fuel economy was already very high with the Honda CBR250R but has now been running slightly better at 101 mpgUS at 65 mph during the warm months. Having the large trunk is nice for shopping and going back and forth to work. The rear area sloping down behind the tire is included so I have about 100 liters which is just enough, along with a large tank bag, to hold all of my stuff for camping. The CBR250R is a dart through the wind on the highway if you slide back on the seat and lean down on a big tank bag to tuck in. The 3.1 gallon tank and incredible fuel efficiency lets me plan on 250 mile legs between fuel stops during cross country trips. Top speed with the trunk is little changed from the 96 mph I was getting before with the +1/ -2 gearing.
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The big question that always comes up with a tail mod is "How is the wind". Keep in mind that while you are cruising down the road at 60 mph, a 30 mph side wind gust is combined with the 60 mph head wind to appear as a vector coming from 30 degrees off of the nose of the bike. A side wind is only a side wind when the bike is parked. My bike with the truncated tail isn't any problem but the guys with full length tails learn to park facing into the wind. Just look for the sea gulls in the lot to see which way they like to stand. I rode in the 40 mph wind gusts of the remnants of the recent "Witch Storm" and the side wind performance of the CBR250R with it's low, truncated tail is almost unchanged from the stock bike. The wind was primarily from the West so directly perpendicular to the 30 mile highway leg of my commute. My Honda with the tail still has the same amount of self correcting into side winds where the side force works through the trail in the front end geometry to automatically lean into the wind. The added surface area doesn't really seem to have increased the force from the wind when at highway speed since the vector of the apparent wind is still coming from no more than a 30 degree angle off the nose of the bike. If anything the added mass of the tail has slowed the polar inertia of the roll performance making the bike move less in the shorter duration transient gusts so it is less active under the rider. Like the heavier bike that it now is. Having all of that handy storage on a motorcycle makes it infinitely more useful.
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When Craig Vetter first saw my tail I had the top flipped open where it acts like a table while you are loading. He immediatley said "Now that is how bikes should come, right from the factory". Very useful.
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[greenaero]

Hi Scott, Great report! You've done a great job with your tail and are enjoying the benefits of reduced air drag and great cargo capacity.

The only changes I have been playing with is a hinged flap that would smooth the air flow between my wind screen, helment and the front top edge of the tail. I test rode my first version but it blocked my view of the mirrors and the gauges. It also lifted in wind direction shifts. Currently I'm planning to rebuild my tail so further work on the flaps is postponed.

Alan and I have been looking at other base platforms than the pre-gen Ninjas we are both running in our streamliners. So far we have some side-by-side testing comparing my lightly modified 2005 pre-gen ( Silveraero; long windscreen, enclosd front fender, 15/37 gearing) without its aerotrunk. On our test loop a stock Honda CFR250 got 89.9 mpg and a CFR230 got 95 mpg compared to my runs with of 102mpg and 101mpg. The single cylinder Hondas seem to offer a significant advantage over a comparable Ninjette. I'll be looking for an affordable CBR250R now that the prime riding season is over .