Greenaero's Ninja Hypermiling project

[JeffM]

Originally Posted by greenaero

I ended up with a 93 mpg run, I wanted to break 100 mpg but I can see how hard it is to achieve this under these difficult conditions. Kudos for to all the Vetter Challengers for another great event.
I rode home and had a pretty good run: 122.4 miles/.9 gallon= 136 mpg.

Alan Smith's 2003 Ninja 250 and my 1999 Ninja 250 were the best performing gasoline-powered bikes in the 2012 Carmel Vetter Challenge

[greenaero]

Thanks Jeff and Chris, It was fun and I'm pleased with my progress

[greenaero]

I started a new part-time job that involves a lot of travel so I hadn't done much with my bike for a while. I had a 2 week break from work so I decided I better get to work getting the bike ready for the next Vetter Challenge at Mid-Ohio during the AMA Vintage Days on 7/20/2012.

I'll be riding from the SF BAy Area with fellow competitor Alan Smith and we will meet up with another Vetter Challenger in Cheyenne WY, then proceed together to Mid-Ohio. It should be a lot of fun.

I worked on my bike the past couple of days fixing the rear brakes and installing a new front end. It is now " dustbin" styled. I made a frame out of sheet metal bands and Pvc slats that I bolted and riveted together. I covered the front end framework with coroplast, installed the turnsignals and reused my old coroplast windscreen. I took it for its first ride this morning. It seemed to pass through the air plenty well but was too flexible in strong winds in the area near the front wheel. I need to make it more rigid. I also need to test the effectiveness of a front cooling vent to ensure adequate coooling. Hopefully this will allow me to close the performance gap between me and some of the other Vetter Challengers.

[sendler]

Originally Posted by greenaero

I'll be riding from the SF BAy Area with fellow competitor Alan Smith and we will meet up with another Vetter Challenger in Cheyenne WY, then proceed together to Mid-Ohio. It should be a lot of fun.

That will be an epic ride. I hope I can see you there.

[greenaero]

Scott, I'm looking forward to it! The 2012 Ohio Vetter Challenge field looks to be large and competitive. You need to be there ! I hope you can make it.

[greenaero]

Here are some pix of the new front end. I hope it will help close the gap between me and my competition.

[JeffM]

Originally Posted by greenaero

I'll be riding from the SF BAy Area with fellow competitor Alan Smith and we will meet up with another Vetter Challenger in Cheyenne WY, then proceed together to Mid-Ohio. It should be a lot of fun.

When you swing through Salt Lake City I wouldn't mind tagging along for a bit or meeting for lunch or something.

Jeff

[greenaero]

Hi Jeff, Pm me your contact info and I will keep you appraised of our travel plans. Alan and I would love to meet you in person and hopefully ride together.

lastest update:
After doing some more business travel, I got the chance recently to resume work on my bike. During testing I found that the fairing around the front wheel was too flexible so I added more stiffening elements to the framework. I refueled yesterday for my first full tank with the dustbin styled front end and got 104 MPG . I've also found that the bike moves through the air with noticely less throttle and that I can use top gear more with much less downshifting. I still need to ensure that I have sufficient cooling air flow and to enclose the opening around the headlight. I also need more roadtesting to ensure that the dustbin front end is durable enough for the long trip to Ohio.

[greenaero]

Alan Smith and I leave for the Ohio Vetter Challenge on Friday, 7/13/2012. I've got the front faring stiff enough and it should survive the ~5000 trip to Ohio and back. I'm still struggling with high coolant temps with the full aero package. I'll probably end up running with the headlighlight area uncovered to increase radiator airflow on the trip and reinstall the headlight cover while running the Challenge. Lots of desert to traverse in CA, NV, UT and WY. I still have to change my coolant, oil &filter and change the fork oil. My tires should last the trip.
We'll be meeting up with JeffM for lunch in the Salt Lake City on Saturday and then on to Cheyenne WY where we will meet up with Ron Johnston and his streamlined Honda VT500 . It will be cool riding this far with 3 streamlined bikes.

[JeffM]

Met up today with Vic and Alan in Salt Lake City. First of all, both are fine gentlemen.

We had arranged to meet at a fuel stop just off Interstate 80 outside of SLC so I could guide them to a really great Mexican restaurant, Red Iguana, for lunch.

Both Vic's and Alan's stream liners are pretty cool and if you ever ride with either one of them be prepared to get some attention. One motorcyclist went by us when we first met up at the gas station, flipped a u-turn, went a block out of his way just to stop and check out the bikes and chat. Happened when ever we stopped and not just motorcyclists.

I had a great time, thanks Vic and Alan.

Photos at my ride report: http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?p=529409

Jeff

[greenaero]

Jeff, It was great too meet you in person! Great choice of restaurant, the mole was fantastic. Alan and I are in Lincoln NE and hope to meet up with Craig Vetter in Champaign IL tomorrow. My bike is hating the heat but Alan's Ninja is running great. We should get to Mid Ohio on Thursday morning.
all the best. Vic

[JeffM]

Good meeting you too. I was sweating the restaurant choice and am glad you liked it. I am looking foreword to your report of the Vetter Challenge and AMA Vintage Days.

Vic, a little more experimenting with the dustbin faring and you will beat your cooling problems I am sure.

You and Alan are making great time. Of course, now seeing how you ride, I can see why. Last I saw of you, you were disappearing into the mist of that downpour leaving Alan and I behind.

Jeff

[greenaero]

I just got back from the long ride back home( ~ 5200 miles total) from the competition in Ohio and some work in Kentucky. I'm sorry I wasn't able to post the results sooner but I didn't get the official results right away and then I wasn't in position to post them.

1. Fred Hayes, 143.6 mpg ( Hayes Diesel streamliner , overall winner)
2. Vic Valdes, 119 mpg ( Kawasaki 250EX streamliner )
3. ? Van de Ven, 106.4 mpg ( Hayes Diesel MD670A , used B30 diesel , alternate fuel winner )
4. Ben Scloop 108.5 mpg ( Yamaha 185 streamliner )
5. Alan Smith 101.9 mpg ( Kawasaki 250EX Vetter/Smith streamliner )
6. Craig Vetter 84.8 mpg ( Honda Helix Vetter streamliner)
7. ? Boyd 57.6 mpg ( B50 diesel powered car)

Other notables who did not meet the Vetter Challenge 4 grocery bag carrying rule :
Scott Endler 105.6 mpg, Honda CBR250
Keith Gerlach 85.6 mpg, Kawasaki 2012(?)Ninja 250
? Dennnis 52.3 mpg, 1973 Honda CB350F
? Weaver 51.8 mpg, Honda 650
? Goff 48.1 mpg , HD Sportster

Electric Bikes
? Gelbien, 1.82 cents/ mile
? Podolefsky , 2.07 cents/mile

The Ohio Vetter Challenge was awesome!! Lots of very cool machines and so were the people. It was great to meet forum friends Scott and Ben in person as well as make other new friends. We got to display our bikes and got lots of attention. Craig was the AMA Vintage Days Grand Marshall and he and Fred Hayes gave some great presentations. I had to go to a job in Kentucky and missed Sunday's events but the AMA Vintage Days was a great event to host the second Mid Ohio Vetter Challenge.

[sendler]

Glad you made it home safe with your cooling problems.

[JeffM]

Vic, congratulations!!!

[Racer x]

119 mpg that is fantastic .

[JustRidin]

This is a really cool pet project. I might take some advice from this later down the line. (in terms of gearing anyway)

[greenaero]

Thanks for your congratulations! I'm very pleased with my results. Watching the celebrations of the Olympic champions gives me some perspective on the joy that comes after long hours of hard work, preparation, and intense concentration all coming to fruition with a successful result. Please share in my joy, your support helped to make it happen.
thank you, GA

[greenaero]

Hi, I hadn't posted in a while and wanted to let folks know whats up with me and my project. My dad died after a long battle with lung cancer. Fortunately I was able to drive out to Texas and visit with him before he slipped into a terminal coma. I've also been busy working a lot on my part time job with a safety training company which involves a lot of travel.
I haven't worked on my bike much since getting back from the Vetter Challenge in Ohio. I replaced the chain after it failed and have focused most of my efforts on improving the cooling airflow through the front end. I tested my new ducting today and it seemed to be cooling better though it wasn't a very hot day(~85*F.) Nonetheless, it seemed better to be working better.
I also refilled today and had a pretty good tankfill: 379.8 miles/3.41 gal.=111 mpg.
The Las Vegas to Barstow Vetter Challenge will be on November 18 so most of my efforts will be ensuring that the Ninja is roadworthy for the 500+ mile trip to Las Vegas and that my streamliner is running well and hopefully is competitive.

[choneofakind]

I'm sorry to hear about that Vic. You have my best wishes.

Make sure you're alright before you get too deep into the bike again. That's not an easy loss.

[greenaero]

Thanks Chris, my dad was a huge influence in my life and he will be missed. The riding and the fuel economy competitions give me something to focus on rather than dwell on our family's loss.

[Old Guy on a '08]

Originally Posted by greenaero

Skippi, thanks for the additional info on the 16T countershaft sprocket. I'll conside it for the next wave of modifications.

Have you run any calculations about mechanical drag on different sprocket combos???

[Old Guy on a '08]

Vic,

Sorry to read about your Dad. Mine has been gone for close to 38 years now and I still miss him. I survived a bout with Tonsilar Cancer late last year... I wish you God's Peace.

Originally Posted by greenaero

Other notables who did not meet the Vetter Challenge 4 grocery bag carrying rule

Just how big are the grocery bags... have you thought about a smaller gas tank or where else a bag can be carried other then the tail section. Looks likte the front fairing would have room????

Good luck with next months challenge. I enjolyed reading the thread and look forward to reading more.

[greenaero]

Hi Chris, I haven't done any calculations on mechanical drag for the sprockets. How would one do that ?

Thanks for your kind words about my dad.

The paper bags that we are required to hold 4 of for the Vetter Challenge rules are 11' long x 8" wide x 17 high.
Streamliners allow a lot of options for carrying cargo. For longer trips I also carry cargo in a large tankbag under the windscreen.

It looks like the Las Vegas to Barstow Vetter Challenge will be led by a Kawasaki rep on 2013 NInja 300. It sounds like we have a larger field and hopefully some more publicity.
all the best, Vic

[choneofakind]

Nice! See if they'll give you some sponsorship or something like that!

[greenaero]

Hi all, I haven't posted in a while and thought I should report in.
After a disappointing performance in the 2012 Las Vegas to Barstow Vetter Challenge I knew I needed to improve my streamlined Ninja 250 to return to its previous good finishes ( 2nd overall, 1st gasoline -powered @ 2012 Mid Ohio Challenge, 3rd best @ 2012 Carmel Challenge) .
I decided to buy a Vetter fiberglass nosepiece as side by side testing with Alan Smith showed its superior performance . So I removed my Coroplast over sheetmetal framework nose and began by installing a plywood bulhead to mount the 2 fiberglass nose halves on. I cut the wheel slot, glassed the halves together and mounted the nose onto the bulkhead with 3 screws. I then made the framework to mount coroplast sides and the windscreen. I've been back on the road the past 2 weeks.

I still need to do some more finish work such as sealing the plywoood bulhead and adding ducting but I wanted to see how the new nose felt and performed. I started using it to run errands to ensure it was strongly attached and that the turning clearance was OK. Engine temps are good although the weather has been cool. The bike is quieter through the air and I'm able to hold top gear longer and at smaller throttle openings than before. For lots of pictures of the construction check out Craig Vetter's website at www.craigvetter.com , its in Chapter 62

Alan just got back from Phoenix with his "new" ( 2004 model ) Ninja 250 and wanted to do a baseline test on our 100 mile test loop. So we decided to ride this morning. Alan's friend Ken joined us with his new Honda CF250. We enjoyed the ride through the backroads between Livermore and Patterson and had some excellente Mexican food for lunch. We rode back to our starting point gas station and refilled our bikes: Alan: 77 mpg, Ken 83 mpg, Vic 100 mpg. The weather was cool with some wind. A good start for this current version.

Next, I need to finish off the front end and then remake my tailsection. Still lots to do before the Carmel Vetter Challenge in May but I'm looking forward to it.

all the best , Vic

[greenaero]

On Wednesday , I rode with 3 friends to the NorCal gold country for some fun riding and for a get-together of retired Fremont firefighters. We charged up and down the twisty and scenic Sierra backroads and had lunch in Kirkwood. We crested Cables Pass, Ebbets Pass and Carson Pass. My friends were all riding liter+ bikes and the little Ninja lagged behind at times going up trhe steep grades but still was running well and getting the job done. Just past Siver Lake on HWY 88 my bike suddenly lost power and stalled out on an uphill section. The bike would restart but could'nt take on any load, it couldn't climb or accelerate enough to shift out of 1st gear. After trying to figure out what was wrong, I ended up coasting back downhill so I could get off the roadside and find a landline as there was no cellphone service. I ended up at the Silver Lake campground where the ranger let use their phone to call my wife and leave messages so that my friends would know what happened to me.



My friends were waiting for me until another motorcyclist stopped and told he had seen me stopped on the road near Silver Lake. George raced back down Hwy 88 and found me while Chris and Larry borrowed Chris's neighbor's truck and trailer, anticipating a serious problem with my Ninja. We finally got loaded it up and completed our journey to Chris's cabin for the night. Obviously very disappointing and I felt bad to cause so much trouble and work for my friends. On the negative side, I've got to go get my bike trailered back home and determined what needs to be fixed. On the plus side, it's further confirmed that I am blessed with the best friends possible. Despite the occasional bump in the road, my friends and family have always been there to help lift me back up. Thank you to all for my friends.

Sincerely , Vic

[sendler]

Bummer. Hope you can get it fixed. Maybe this is the end from the overheating last summer.

[JeffM]

Sorry to hear the bike gave up on you Vic. Hope it it temporary.

Jeff

[NealWright]

Don't know how many mods your allowed ... but I would look into regrinding cams if you truly aren't going to use anything past 9-10k rpm. Bring your motor efficiency back into the cruiser rpm range.

EFI is a good upgrade for extreme fuel mileage. Carbs are better fuel mixers, as long as you stay in the temp/alt you adjust them for (or re-adjust). EFI can handle all that on the fly. I've not done anything with Kawi's design ... but my Civic can handle light loads cruising in the 24afr range.

Vacuum gauge is a must for any high mpg ... Always adjust carbs/timing for most vacuum at a given speed and load. Constantly try to maintain highest vacuum while driving.

Just a couple ideas. Thanks, Neal

[greenaero]

Last Saturday I went to trailer my bike back home. I made it back but the tailsection sustained some skin damage. The framework is fine and I needed to redo it anyway.
When I got home and offloaded, I started the bike to see how it ran nearer sea level but It had the same problem as before: No power when I opened the throttle. I checked for gas flow first. the petcock worked fine and fuel looked OK. I pulled the sparkplugs and found they were rich but not fouled. They produced a good, spark when cranking. I had to buy a new compression tester ( Harbor Freight, $21) as my old one couldn't screw into the 10mm plug holes. 150 psi both cylinders, compression OK. I had already checked the air filter and the carb vacuum lines so now it was time to open up the carbs.
I pulled the carbs off and found that they didn't look bad when I first dropped the float bowls. I removed the jets and found that the intermediate jets were partially plugged. I blew them out with carb cleaner and compressed air. I checked and reset the float height. I re- installed everything and started it up.
Eureka! It ran OK! Science and logic triumphs! I just need to adjust the mixture screws and synch the carburetors. After insuring it is running well, I'll refit the nose and refinish the tail.

Neal, thanks for the suggestions, Alan and I are looking into different camshafts.

[Oliveoil]

Vic, what weight oil are you running, tire pressure too. Thanks

[greenaero]

Jon, I run 10-40 conventional oil, tire pressure @40 psi front and back. I will probably try some Torco synthetic oil when I change the oil.

[greenaero]

I was asked to display my streamliner at a local car and bike show so I hustled this past weekend to get the bodywork back together. I strengthened the front bulkhead as it was flexing a bit. I laminated more plywood onto the bulkhead and added 4 more steel tubing braces to it. I also added more frame members to the tail section and reskinned it with some new doorskin ( thin plywood veneer ). I just finished in time to ride to the show in Fremont. The crowd loved it.

The bike is running well and I hope to do a bit of testing and tweak a few things before I get ready to head out to Lexington Ohio for the next round of the Vetter Challenge on 7/19/2013. I'll be trailering the streamliner this year rather than riding as I did last year. I hope to meet some more Ninjette members there at the AMA Vintage Days .

[Motofool]

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by greenaero

The bike is running well and I hope to do a bit of testing and tweak a few things before I get ready to head out to Lexington Ohio for the next round of the Vetter Challenge on 7/19/2013. I'll be trailering the streamliner this year rather than riding as I did last year. I hope to meet some more Ninjette members there at the AMA Vintage Days .

Mid-Ohio?? I think AMA vintage days is what was going on last time I did demo rides with Kawasaki at Mid-Ohio. I'll have to look at my schedule and see about meeting up with you.

[greenaero]

Chris, It would be great to meet you. I do remember that several motorcycle manufacturers were hosting demo rides there at the AMA Vintage Days including Kawasaki.

[choneofakind]

Cool! I might be able to take a half-day off of work that Friday. I'll keep my schedule open that afternoon. I want to see your streamliner in person.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by greenaero

Chris, It would be great to meet you. I do remember that several motorcycle manufacturers were hosting demo rides there at the AMA Vintage Days including Kawasaki.

I have just found these:

http://www.tonyfoale.com/book/AERO.PDF

http://www.tonyfoale.com/Articles/Ae...s/AeroOpen.jpg

http://www.tonyfoale.com/Articles/Aerodynamics/AERO.htm

http://www.tonyfoale.com/Articles/Mould/Mould.htm

[JeffM]

Check this build out: http://www.velomobiel.nl/allert/Recu...0motorbike.htm