Is college worth it?

[Heed]

Discuss.

[Jiggles]

No.

[Scattcatt]

If you have the motivation, time, money and will to do it, yes. Honestly my only reason for going to college is because I need a degree to become an officer in the military. If this wasn't my career of choice, then perhaps I would have decided differently. It goes without saying though that statistically speaking people with a college education tend to have better luck with jobs and earning money. It's a personal choice, one can be successful with or without it.

[Alex]

College can open more doors, than choosing not to go can shut. A degree is no guarantee of success, but not having one can be limiting in many areas.

UnemploymentEducation.jpg

from here and elsewhere...

[Ytse Frobozz]

tl;dr version:
If you can get scholarships, or financial aid, or can afford to go to a school without having to work two jobs and hate life, I say absolutely do it. If not, then you have more of a decision ahead of you.

The I make important life decisions by asking people on the Internet version:
I have a lot of thoughts about this. On one hand, I feel like with the prices of "premium" colleges going up and up, unless you get financial assistance, it just keeps getting harder to make back the money. If you spend $100k on a four year degree (some colleges will cost more), it's probably going to take you a very, very long time to pay all the loans back, and if your parents are fronting the money, well, imagine how tremendous of a head start you have on the rest of your financial life if your parents fronted half the money for your first house instead of sending you to college? From a purely financial standpoint, a top school may be worth it if you're going to be in medicine, law, politics, etc., or you really are gifted (better than top 1 percent) and want to be at the top of some field that you know for goddamned sure you want to do for the rest of your life. Otherwise, do the math. it's hard to justify going in the hole at $30k+ per year.

On the other hand, there are many good schools out there that don't cost a lot of money, relatively speaking, and if you're fairly motivated and/or intelligent (now we're talking top 10 or maybe 20 percent), you can squeeze a decent education out of one. And once you have a degree in just about anything, that is all a lot of employers are looking for if you're going to be working in a cube somewhere, or doing any of a million other jobs. They want to see that you had a goal - to get your degree - and you achieved it. It will for damn sure give you an edge over other kids with little or no experience, and you will probably find that you are out of the entry level doldrums faster than the non-graduates. I work in information technology, and some of the best network engineers I ever worked with were philosophy majors.

Also, there is something to be said for having "the college experience." I'm not proud to say this, but my parents paid for my college education at a top school, and I didn't graduate. Few things will make you feel like more of a failure when such a tremendous opportunity has been handed to you and it seems like you've wasted it. That having been said, I got exposed to a lot of really smart and very different people from all over the world and had to learn how to work with them, live with them, understand them, and interact with them over an extended period of time, and I feel like that's really helped me in life (not just my career). A lot of what you learn in college doesn't come out of a textbook.

I think I've spent way too much time on this, because what kid is going to base his decision on whether to go to college or not on some random dude's post on a motorcycle forum? But whatever. Go to school, drink your milk, and get eight hours of sleep!

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by Ytse Frobozz

Go to school, and get eight hours of sleep!

So far, I've found that these two things don't get along terribly well...


good grades, adequate sleep, social life.





pick 2.

[CynicalC]

Depends on what you're going for. Any kind of engineering or science degree, sure. Arts degrees, not so much. Those are the people crying right now that they graduated and can't get a job. If they got a degree in something that mattered, they wouldn't have a problem.

[Domagoj]

Social life is overrated. What Rob told you stands.

I believe my life is much easier now because I graduated. Nobody here makes a lot of money, but I do make above average, and I have less hard job than average.

In the whole, there are so many things we humans have dabbled in during history and in present times, and each of them is interesting and curious in it's own way; getting drunk and watching football matches is definetly at the bottom of the list.

Do not shut yourself out of all of it if you can help it. Learning is actually fun.

[gfloyd2002]

College is absolutely worth it. It isn't a guarantee, but it will provide you with opportunity that you won't get without it. It opens thousands of options that you'll be closed off to if you don't attend. College is the great equalizer. Once you get that degree, and possibly the following advanced degree, you'll be able to compete with people coming from a much more privileged place. Maybe not compete equally, but for me it was the path from a poor upbringing to a profession and comfortable life. If you aren't locked into a future, take the path that leaves yourself with the highest upside and the most choices. That is going to be college every time.

Originally Posted by Ytse Frobozz

tl;dr version:
If you can get scholarships, or financial aid, or can afford to go to a school without having to work two jobs and hate life, I say absolutely do it. If not, then you have more of a decision ahead of you.

It is still a no brainer. You can do it without much money. I got my degrees with zero help from my parents and limited financial help from the school, and I still came out without much in the way of loans. I just worked my way through a state school. It was totally doable and worked out fine - four years of college and three years of grad school were paid off within a couple of years of graduation. The key was keeping working during school and being smart about my schedule, and being willing to sacrifice my social life to work and support myself. (I still found my future wife at work, so that worked out for me, too. ) You can't think just of the immediate cost, either. You have to look at future income potential. Following up on Alex's graph below on unemployment, check out what going to school does for your income level in the graph below. For me personally, it took me from single parent working class/welfare class to comfortable six figure income.



Interestingly, had I gone to a MORE expensive school, I still might have come out well financially because of availability of more financial aid. When you look at average cost of school AFTER financial aid, you'll find many private schools on par with or less expensive than the state school, unless your family (unlike mine) had real income disqualifying you from aid. I wish I'd have given non-public schools a better chance to show me financial aid options before writing them off. Would have made my job search post college a bit easier, I think, to have gone to a more prestigious school. As it was, it still worked out well over time.

Originally Posted by CynicalC

Depends on what you're going for. Any kind of engineering or science degree, sure. Arts degrees, not so much. Those are the people crying right now that they graduated and can't get a job. If they got a degree in something that mattered, they wouldn't have a problem.

I got an arts degree and a science degree undergrad - both weren't really that helpful for jobs. So I went to law school, which worked great. Job hunt was a PITA, and I was delayed working for a few years as I got advanced degree, but end result was stability and income. IMHO undergrad degree much less important than what you do in grad school, especially in current job market. Though it does limit your options somewhat after you graduate (I had to go to grad school to be marketable, unlike an engineering major with some options after undergrad), there are still lots of choices available. Business school, law school, international relations school, grad school in major, etc.

Key is working hard, moving forward and putting yourself in a position to maximize your future potential and your future options. And that is college 100 times out of 100.

[emoyer]

college opened doors for me. maybe it still does. i think our society may be on the verge of becoming something very different than what it has been for the last couple generations.

but maybe a better question is, what do *you* really want to do with your life? money is great, but happiness is worth more in the long run. i went to engineering school because my mom wanted me to, & she was right about what it would do for me. but i have spent a good portion of my professional life wanting to put a bullet thru my head, especially when i look around & see some of the guys who instead of college went into a trade or started a business, and now they not only seem happier but are also better off financially.

its really much more about who you are than what college will do. follow your heart but count the cost.

just my opinion.

[Ranor]

Yes, Especially if you are paid to go there :P

[Heed]

I'm thinking of just taking online courses. I just can't stand going to a campus anymore.

And it doesn't make sense to me that a group of people should meet in the same place every Tuesday and Thursday when they can participate via internet. I sort of hate the commute.

[Nemesis]

Good thread.

I agree a lot with what Ytse Frobozz posted.

I'm all for college because it does open doors but only if the field you plan on specializing in requires it. Understand what I mean?

I have friends who have graduated from college making less than my other friends who don't hold a degree, and vice versa. I know tons of VP who don't hold a degree but worked their way up the corporate ladder. A piece of paper does not guarantee success nor the amount of money you had hoped for.

It's a tough decision. And even tougher for the kids these days because the competition is 50x harder compared to our days.

I wonder...is it harder for an educated man to land a job than one who isn't? I would think it would be the former since the man who's not educated wouldn't let his pride stand in his way in landing a job...ANY job to make ends meet.

[blink]

depends.

["A"]

It depends on what you're doing, my life long friend (in his mid 30's) who's a plumber his whole life, never graduated high school, making well within the 6-figures by his own plumbing business.

Meanwhile, me with a MS degree is unemployed since MAR 2010. But I didn't pay 6-figures for my degree.. maybe that's why I'm not raking in the big bucks.

Is college worthwhile? depends on where you go and what you major.. 60k a year is a waste of money if you can't find a well paying job after graduation.

[Heed]

Average student loan debt is about $23,000 as far as I know.

I don't know... I think about joining the military sometimes.

[gfloyd2002]

Average student doesn't work their way through school. I came out of 7 years of school with about 10 grand. Easy to pay off with job that degree got me. And I didn't have to clean other peoples sh*t to earn it.

[Apex]

It is fun starting college back up after you have been out of school for 7+ years. It was hard for me doing that, but I tried harder too. College is good if you have a maturity level to apply yourself. Regardless of what people say, where you go and what your grades are CAN matter, but I have not heard of many places that still care where you go for basic business jobs. I managed to graduate with over a 3.8 GPA. Still waiting on that awesome job though. That is ok, I get paid really good money for being a electronics technician, so no rush.

[Boom King]

Like others have said, nothing is a guarantee and "worth" is of course relative and different to each person. In general terms though I believe that if you go to college for something that you truly want to learn, enjoy it and work hard then it will be worth it eventually.

Originally Posted by Heed

I'm thinking of just taking online courses. I just can't stand going to a campus anymore.

And it doesn't make sense to me that a group of people should meet in the same place every Tuesday and Thursday when they can participate via internet. I sort of hate the commute.

Online courses are a convenient option. I've had mixed experiences with them. Some were fine but in other cases, I felt that I would have gotten more of my money's worth and a richer learning experience in an interactive classroom. The one big benefit of classroom environments is being able to network with your peers and professors and build those mutually beneficial relationships. These could potentially open more doors. In fact, I believe this is one of the biggest benefits of a good college education besides just "hitting the books".

[Skippii]

I went to college for 5 years and hated it, studying physics, chemistry, and sociology.
Then I quit and went to another school for another year to study massage therapy. Loved it. I wish I'd never gone to college...but I had no idea that I'd want to be a CMT when I finished high school.

[setasai]

Originally Posted by Boom King

The one big benefit of classroom environments is being able to network with your peers and professors and build those mutually beneficial relationships. These could potentially open more doors. In fact, I believe this is one of the biggest benefits of a good college education besides just "hitting the books".

Huge Huge part of it. I wouldnt know anybody if I didnt force myself to get my butt out of bed and to class.

On a personal level, if you want to learn, any school/class/college/program is a great place. I hate it when students take my class and think they'll get a curve or an easy exam. If you "try" to learn even just a little, you'll do much better and in the end it'll be worth it because you did what you wanted to do.

Life is too short to make decisions based on cost and advice on worth from others. If you want to go to school/college to learn, do it! Otherwise, do something else you want to do and if you change your mind, hopefully sooner than later if at all, then go ahead and go back. As an instructor at a state university, I welcome older students. They tend to be more motivated and almost always catches up/surpasses many younger students.

An immature mind at any education program is in my opinion incredibly wasteful when you have all these other students that work extremely hard to afford it and get in because they want to as opposed to those that go just for the title and nothing more.

[Samer]

I think college is worth it if you pick the right degree and the right college. I would avoid for profit schools like the plague.

[Jiggles]

From Yahoo!

The Occupy Student Debt Campaign wants the federal government to forgive all student loans, and are asking protesters to sign a "Pledge of Refusal." Once a million people sign on, the occupiers will stop paying their loans. So far, 2,500 have signed.

Hurry and get a loan so you can get it forgiven! And if the Feds don't forgive it then we will all stop paying our loans! That'll teach them, as well as completely obliterate our credit scores... Funny how a group of "smart" people can be so stupid..

Anyway dude, $23,000 really isn't that much money. Besides it gives you the opportunity to make a ton more money. If graduating with debt concerns you then find a job that will pay for college. I work at AT&T, I sell cell phones, AT&T gives me $5,250 a year to work on a degree in Industrial Engineering, something that is completely unrelated to sales. There are plenty of companies that will help pay for you tuition, you just have to go find them.

Awesome thing about the army is that they pay for all of your school expenses.

[leed]

A college degree is only as good as what you do with it. But it gives you a head start. Yes, there are a lot of people who are well off without degrees, but a lot of the times, you still put the same amount of effort in. If you don't have a degree, you will struggle. You will struggle to get a degree. College can often times help you through the struggle, but of course, at a cost.

Is it worth it? I think so. I am lucky that my parents can afford to put me through a state university, but I plan to pay them back.

Either way, college or not, if you put forth the true effort, you will gain return it's just that sometimes times what you think is full fledged effort is not. If you think you are doing all you can, you can probably do more. And at the same time, there will always be someone better than you.

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by CynicalC

Depends on what you're going for. Any kind of engineering or science degree, sure. Arts degrees, not so much. Those are the people crying right now that they graduated and can't get a job. If they got a degree in something that mattered, they wouldn't have a problem.

I'm at Ohio Northern University as an ME major. Sure I just finished my first semester here, but I've learned a ton, and talking to graduates of the same program I'm in and seeing what they're doing with their lives has really made me glad that I decided to apply myself in high school and come here.

Originally Posted by Heed

Average student loan debt is about $23,000 as far as I know.

I don't know... I think about joining the military sometimes.

Even with a rather large scholarship, after 4 years here, that's about what I'm looking at being stuck with. My parents did what they could to help, but they also had my older sister to save for and ultimately, it's up to us and I respect that. I will do what I can to pay them back over time for what they helped me with. Besides, $20,000 is definitely do-able in a reasonable time period assuming that I get a job (which I have good odds of as an ME) and it will be a way for me to make steady payments and build a positive credit history. Now if I were borrowing $35,000 a year to pay for all of my tuition, I would definitely be worried about getting it all payed back and would likely not being attending a small, private university. (a good ACT score, good high school gpa, and good scores on AP classes have all helped that greatly.)

If you're going to join the military just for the college money, I would advise against that. Join the military for the right reasons. College money is no reason to get shot at. Our military is a great and highly respectable thing, and I admire my buddies who have joined the armed forces. They have done something I cannot; however, I still want to do my part. I hope to get a job that deals with defense contracts so that I can help out my way. I would do my duty if the draft was ever reenacted, but it is not the job I was cut out for. I only run and bike and play soccer for recreation; not as training to fight. I am 100% supportive of our troops no matter if I agree with where we are or why we're there, but I guess I'm trying to say that that's a very large commitment just for a little help with college money when $23,000 is a very manageable number considering how much a degree helps.

[00NissanNinja]

Ask me next year when I graduate haha. I guess its worth it depending what you do in college. I'm in mechanical engineering so there are lots of places for me to seek work, but in my college they make your life miserable. That school literally sucks my life force out. A lot of days I am doing homework that will last the entire day, and I am not exaggerating sometimes it really will take your entire day. However, even though there are a lot of places to work I still haven't found myself a job and I am doing pretty damn good in my classes. I may end up doing some engineering stuff as an officer in the military (I do have some interest in engineering military instruments), but I would like to look for companies to work with first.

[kyrider]

http://www.payscale.com/chart/121/To...-2011-v1.0.png



Best Undergrad College Degrees By Salary - Full List
STARTING MEDIAN PAY MID-CAREER MEDIAN PAY
Petroleum Engineering $97,900 $155,000
Chemical Engineering $64,500 $109,000
Electrical Engineering (EE) $61,300 $103,000
Materials Science & Engineering $60,400 $103,000
Aerospace Engineering $60,700 $102,000
Computer Engineering (CE) $61,800 $101,000
Physics $49,800 $101,000
Applied Mathematics $52,600 $98,600
Computer Science (CS) $56,600 $97,900
Nuclear Engineering $65,100 $97,800
Biomedical Engineering (BME) $53,800 $97,800
Economics $47,300 $94,700
Mechanical Engineering (ME) $58,400 $94,500
Statistics $49,000 $93,800
Industrial Engineering (IE) $57,400 $93,100
Civil Engineering (CE) $53,100 $90,200
Mathematics $47,000 $89,900
Environmental Engineering $51,700 $88,600
Management Information Systems (MIS) $51,000 $88,200
Software Engineering $54,900 $87,800
Finance $46,500 $87,300
Government $41,400 $87,300
Construction Management $50,200 $85,200
Supply Chain Management $50,200 $84,700
Biochemistry (BCH) $41,700 $84,700
Industrial Design (ID) $44,400 $84,400
Electrical Engineering Technology (EET) $55,100 $84,300
Food Science $43,300 $83,700
International Business $41,600 $83,700
Civil Engineering Technology (CET) $46,600 $83,300
Geology $45,300 $83,300
Computer Information Systems (CIS) $47,900 $83,100
Mechanical Engineering Technology (MET) $51,600 $81,200
Molecular Biology $40,500 $81,200
Chemistry $42,000 $80,900
Film Production $41,600 $80,700
Political Science (PolySci) $39,900 $80,100
Biotechnology $40,800 $79,900
International Relations $40,500 $79,400
Occupational Health and Safety $46,400 $79,000
American Studies $43,400 $78,600
Information Technology (IT) $48,300 $78,500
Industrial Technology (IT) $48,100 $78,400
Information Systems (IS) $48,300 $78,100
Telecommunications $37,300 $78,100
Urban Planning $41,500 $78,000
Accounting $44,700 $75,700
Philosophy $39,800 $75,600
Zoology $38,000 $75,200
Advertising $37,700 $74,700
Architecture $41,500 $74,400
Marketing & Communications $38,200 $73,500
Literature $39,100 $73,200
Fashion Design $36,300 $72,400
Global & International Studies $37,800 $72,000
Biology $37,900 $71,900
Environmental Science $40,200 $71,200
Linguistics $39,800 $70,700
Business $41,000 $70,500
Microbiology $38,500 $70,100
Nursing $52,700 $69,300
History $37,800 $69,000
Public Administration $40,400 $68,900
Hotel Management $36,100 $68,700
Forestry $41,500 $67,200
Communications $38,000 $66,900
Landscape Architecture $41,900 $66,700
Geography $39,600 $66,700
Journalism $36,100 $66,400
Health Sciences $35,800 $66,200
English $37,100 $65,800
Public Relations (PR) $35,500 $65,700
French $38,400 $65,500
Sports Management $35,400 $65,100
Liberal Arts $37,800 $63,200
Anthropology $35,600 $63,200
Human Resources (HR) $37,900 $62,600
Organizational Management (OM) $42,300 $61,900
Agriculture $38,600 $61,500
Psychology $35,000 $61,300
Medical Technology $45,100 $60,900
Health Care Administration $36,700 $60,900
Sociology $36,100 $60,500
Radio & Television $35,000 $60,000
Hospitality & Tourism $35,900 $59,500
Visual Communication $35,600 $59,000
Criminal Justice $35,300 $58,900
Fine Arts $35,900 $58,600
Spanish $36,400 $58,400
Interior Design $34,300 $58,200
Humanities $34,900 $57,800
Horticulture $39,600 $57,300
Theater $34,700 $57,300
Music $36,800 $57,200
Graphic Design $35,600 $56,500
Fashion Merchandising $36,800 $56,300
Dietetics $41,500 $56,100
Education $36,800 $54,700
Kinesiology $34,200 $54,600
Photography $32,900 $54,500
Nutrition $38,600 $54,400
Interdisciplinary Studies (IS) $36,300 $54,400
Exercise Science $33,100 $54,400
Social Science $36,600 $54,300
Drama $37,800 $54,200
Multimedia and Web Design $40,400 $53,900
Animal Science $33,800 $53,700
Paralegal/Law $35,300 $53,500
Art History $38,300 $53,300
Art $35,300 $52,400
Theology $35,600 $52,000
Public Health (PH) $35,500 $51,700
Athletic Training $34,600 $50,200
Religious Studies $32,900 $49,700
Recreation & Leisure Studies $34,500 $49,100
Special Education $34,300 $47,800
Culinary Arts $29,900 $46,800
Social Work (SW) $32,200 $44,300
Elementary Education $32,400 $44,000
Child and Family Studies $29,600 $40,500

[00NissanNinja]

^Oh yes, engineering jobs do pay pretty good. That is another good consideration for education.

[shiroganeshinobi]

Originally Posted by CynicalC

Depends on what you're going for. Any kind of engineering or science degree, sure. Arts degrees, not so much. Those are the people crying right now that they graduated and can't get a job. If they got a degree in something that mattered, they wouldn't have a problem.

This a half truth. There are approximately 12.4 million out of work and about 3-4 million jobs available. It is not an issue of degrees, it's an issue of not enough jobs.

Many people can have a degree and choose not to pursue a job in their field of study for example the philosophy major network guy mentioned. I also knew a guy in IT who was a SA admin and had a BA in Psychology.

BA/BS degrees are nothing more than resume filter check to stand you out from high school grads. They assume just because you have a degree, you are more competent than someone from high school degree which is of course total BS but that's how our society works. Graduate degrees and above work the same way, it just filters you from those "below you".

Watch out for profit colleges like University of Phoenix and such. They are taking advantage of our government student programs by having the students take loans and student aid to pay for tuition. That sounds right but when their academic programs are crap and you're the one who gets left out in the cold because your degree is now worthless paper because it's not taken seriously.

Student loans cannot be discharged through bankruptcy. That's why you hear a lot of students complaining. If they default on their loans, they garnish wages. So imagine if the only job you can get is a minimal wage job, you just got even more screwed.

Going into the armed services will not help you pay for college as much as before. Remember that whole defense spending cutting? When they decided benefits like the GI bill and such should be cut over research, wars and etc.

Back to the topic, everyone needs to find a job/career they love. like 42-50% of Americans are unhappy with their jobs. Don't go to college to get a degree in some high paying job you dont like or you will regret it and waste the money you spent to get into it. If you got into liberal arts major, be aware of the pitfalls and plan for lots of backups.

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by kyrider

http://www.payscale.com/chart/121/To...-2011-v1.0.png



Best Undergrad College Degrees By Salary - Full List
STARTING MEDIAN PAY MID-CAREER MEDIAN PAY
Petroleum Engineering $97,900 $155,000
Chemical Engineering $64,500 $109,000
Electrical Engineering (EE) $61,300 $103,000
Materials Science & Engineering $60,400 $103,000
Aerospace Engineering $60,700 $102,000
Computer Engineering (CE) $61,800 $101,000
Physics $49,800 $101,000
Applied Mathematics $52,600 $98,600
Computer Science (CS) $56,600 $97,900
Nuclear Engineering $65,100 $97,800
Biomedical Engineering (BME) $53,800 $97,800
Economics $47,300 $94,700
Mechanical Engineering (ME) $58,400 $94,500
Statistics $49,000 $93,800
Industrial Engineering (IE) $57,400 $93,100
Civil Engineering (CE) $53,100 $90,200
Mathematics $47,000 $89,900
Environmental Engineering $51,700 $88,600
Management Information Systems (MIS) $51,000 $88,200
Software Engineering $54,900 $87,800
Finance $46,500 $87,300
Government $41,400 $87,300
Construction Management $50,200 $85,200
Supply Chain Management $50,200 $84,700
Biochemistry (BCH) $41,700 $84,700
Industrial Design (ID) $44,400 $84,400
Electrical Engineering Technology (EET) $55,100 $84,300
Food Science $43,300 $83,700
International Business $41,600 $83,700
Civil Engineering Technology (CET) $46,600 $83,300
Geology $45,300 $83,300
Computer Information Systems (CIS) $47,900 $83,100
Mechanical Engineering Technology (MET) $51,600 $81,200
Molecular Biology $40,500 $81,200
Chemistry $42,000 $80,900
Film Production $41,600 $80,700
Political Science (PolySci) $39,900 $80,100
Biotechnology $40,800 $79,900
International Relations $40,500 $79,400
Occupational Health and Safety $46,400 $79,000
American Studies $43,400 $78,600
Information Technology (IT) $48,300 $78,500
Industrial Technology (IT) $48,100 $78,400
Information Systems (IS) $48,300 $78,100
Telecommunications $37,300 $78,100
Urban Planning $41,500 $78,000
Accounting $44,700 $75,700
Philosophy $39,800 $75,600
Zoology $38,000 $75,200
Advertising $37,700 $74,700
Architecture $41,500 $74,400
Marketing & Communications $38,200 $73,500
Literature $39,100 $73,200
Fashion Design $36,300 $72,400
Global & International Studies $37,800 $72,000
Biology $37,900 $71,900
Environmental Science $40,200 $71,200
Linguistics $39,800 $70,700
Business $41,000 $70,500
Microbiology $38,500 $70,100
Nursing $52,700 $69,300
History $37,800 $69,000
Public Administration $40,400 $68,900
Hotel Management $36,100 $68,700
Forestry $41,500 $67,200
Communications $38,000 $66,900
Landscape Architecture $41,900 $66,700
Geography $39,600 $66,700
Journalism $36,100 $66,400
Health Sciences $35,800 $66,200
English $37,100 $65,800
Public Relations (PR) $35,500 $65,700
French $38,400 $65,500
Sports Management $35,400 $65,100
Liberal Arts $37,800 $63,200
Anthropology $35,600 $63,200
Human Resources (HR) $37,900 $62,600
Organizational Management (OM) $42,300 $61,900
Agriculture $38,600 $61,500
Psychology $35,000 $61,300
Medical Technology $45,100 $60,900
Health Care Administration $36,700 $60,900
Sociology $36,100 $60,500
Radio & Television $35,000 $60,000
Hospitality & Tourism $35,900 $59,500
Visual Communication $35,600 $59,000
Criminal Justice $35,300 $58,900
Fine Arts $35,900 $58,600
Spanish $36,400 $58,400
Interior Design $34,300 $58,200
Humanities $34,900 $57,800
Horticulture $39,600 $57,300
Theater $34,700 $57,300
Music $36,800 $57,200
Graphic Design $35,600 $56,500
Fashion Merchandising $36,800 $56,300
Dietetics $41,500 $56,100
Education $36,800 $54,700
Kinesiology $34,200 $54,600
Photography $32,900 $54,500
Nutrition $38,600 $54,400
Interdisciplinary Studies (IS) $36,300 $54,400
Exercise Science $33,100 $54,400
Social Science $36,600 $54,300
Drama $37,800 $54,200
Multimedia and Web Design $40,400 $53,900
Animal Science $33,800 $53,700
Paralegal/Law $35,300 $53,500
Art History $38,300 $53,300
Art $35,300 $52,400
Theology $35,600 $52,000
Public Health (PH) $35,500 $51,700
Athletic Training $34,600 $50,200
Religious Studies $32,900 $49,700
Recreation & Leisure Studies $34,500 $49,100
Special Education $34,300 $47,800
Culinary Arts $29,900 $46,800
Social Work (SW) $32,200 $44,300
Elementary Education $32,400 $44,000
Child and Family Studies $29,600 $40,500

Wow! There are a lot of low paying jobs that require degrees. We spend all that money on education and this is what we get?
Money isn't everything. If you enjoy what you do then that's all that matters.

But for you who want to make big bucks I know a lot of people don't want to hear or even think about doing the following but I it goes a long ways: KISS @$$!!!

The world's answer:

"It's not so much what you know but who you know" is unfortunately true, to an extent.

God's answer:

So do not fear, for I am with you;
do not be dismayed, for I am your God.
I will strengthen you and help you;
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.
Isaiah 41:10 (NIV)

"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart." Jeremiah 29:11-13 (NIV)

I've followed God's answer all my life because the world's answer sucks. And God has never let me down. I've tested Him by tiding as He had said and He has returned it a thousand folds (I had like 6 raises in one year).

Just sharing.

[Apex]

Originally Posted by shiroganeshinobi

This a half truth. There are approximately 12.4 million out of work and about 3-4 million jobs available. It is not an issue of degrees, it's an issue of not enough jobs.

Yes and no. Many of those people who are "out of work" most likely never even graduated high school. If they have, then I doubt they have any college. So factoring the jobless as a "whole" is not accurate. I'm sure several people who are jobless are because they don't want to work. I've know a few people who choose to live off the government. The unemployment statistic is skewed.

[Nemesis]

Originally Posted by Apex

I'm sure several people who are jobless are because they don't want to work. I've know a few people who choose to live off the government. The unemployment statistic is skewed.

Are these people who choose to live off the government degree holders?

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by Apex

Yes and no. Many of those people who are "out of work" most likely never even graduated high school. If they have, then I doubt they have any college. So factoring the jobless as a "whole" is not accurate. I'm sure several people who are jobless are because they don't want to work. I've know a few people who choose to live off the government. The unemployment statistic is skewed.

Um, not around here. I have college degrees in both computer science and Nursing. No jobs to be found. Its like what others have said, its not about degrees, its about job availability.

Back when jobs were plentiful, employers would take guys with GED's and train them for the job. Not any more.

I always tell people looking for a new career to look at the job listings and see which ones are listed the most in your geographical area. People who get degrees in psychology or business usually have a harder time finding work than other fields.

Sadly, a college degree is required for a lot of jobs. You can always "accidentally forget" to include it if you think it will hurt you. My first job out of college was working as a pest control technician. The guy I interviewed with told me to take it off the application or else I wouldn't get hired. The owner didn't want to hire anyone with a degree because he was worried they would quit as soon as a good job came along. He was right too.

But if you do go to college, I strongly suggest going to a local junior college and state universities. At least that way you wont be out a ton of money when its over.

I heard a rumor that Obama was pushing some kind of deal where student loans didn't have to be paid back until the student actually got a job in his field. Not sure if that was true or my imagination. I thought I heard it on the news.

[MustangGuy]

Wow... there are some of us on here with definite opinions about college and the facts and data to back it up. My comment is a little more simple.... I come from a "non-college" (blue collar) family. I was a bit of a non-conformist as far as my family was concerned (and maybe in general!) I got a modest scholarship and took out student loans because my parents could barely make ends meet. It took me 10 years to pay off my loans but I'm doing ok now. I have never had a problem finding a job or even a second part-time job when I needed it. I'm officially a Medical Technologist. One of the posts quotes a top range income figure as $60,900. I've been a tech for well over 20 years and I do make more than that (I'm not bragging... I don't really care how much I make as long as I can pay my bills and have a few toys ) ....experience has a lot to do with that. For me, it was definitely worth the investment in my future. I have watched my parents and my brothers constantly struggle financially.. never being able to afford a new a car or go on vacation. Both of my brothers want bikes but can't afford them. I didn't want to live that way. I do know people who never went to college and make a lot of money but they are mostly hard-working business owners. Either way, a comfortable (or at least non-struggling) future doesn't come automatically.... you have to work hard at it. Work hard, play hard! Best of luck!

[shiroganeshinobi]

Originally Posted by Apex

Yes and no. Many of those people who are "out of work" most likely never even graduated high school. If they have, then I doubt they have any college. So factoring the jobless as a "whole" is not accurate. I'm sure several people who are jobless are because they don't want to work. I've know a few people who choose to live off the government. The unemployment statistic is skewed.

You're right, it's bad to factor in the whole jobless but even people with degrees can slip into poverty range in this economy. Think about those people who did work hard, was loyal to a company for 10 years but was laid off and can't find a job which had close to their old earning power. People want quality jobs, they don't want minimum wage jobs which is why sometimes they'll choose welfare over "slave labor".

I also want to mention that the unemployment rate is understated. It doesn't include those who have stopped looking for a job, part time workers who are looking for full time work, and some more demographic I cant remember .

We hear 8-9% unemployment when it's really 15% but that's for those without a degree. It's about 5% I think for people with BS/BS. Even with a low unemployment rate, people with degrees are still having problems finding a job. almost40 linked something about a OWS PhD protestor who found a paying job at wall street. The job paid close to minimum wage with a "promise of advancements". Hopefully, she'll get it but I can't help think they suckered her because they just got a consultant at slave wages.

[kyrider]

College helped me get the job I have now have going on 23yrs. College also helped make my decision on my job because of my debt. I am still at the first job I took after college. Been a good career. I encourage my kids to go to the best school that they can get into for the least amount of money. Guess what? My daughter wants to attend Stanford and my Son M.I.T. They are both brilliant and I will do all I can to help them fulfill their dreams within reason;-)

[Sailariel]

Being older than a lot of you guys and gals, college was a bit different for me, especially being the male persuasiom. We had a thing called the Draft.

While in school, you had a 2S Deferment. To keep that, you needed a B or better to keep the deferment.

I played "Draft Roulette" I went to school one semester and worked the next semester to pay the tuition--during that time I was 1A-draftable. I managed to get a Bachelors degree in English Lit. and Theology. Then I went into the Army.

After the Army and a tour in Vietnam, I did manage to get a Masters in Social Work taking advantage of the totally diluted GI Bill and working full time as a mechanic. It took three years to get a degree that took two years. My GPA was 3.96.

It was worth it. I did not make a lot of money. I made enough to live on and keep me in motorcycles, and that was ok. I liked what I was doing. I retired after 25 years in practice.

[gfloyd2002]

Originally Posted by shiroganeshinobi

You're right, it's bad to factor in the whole jobless but even people with degrees can slip into poverty range in this economy. Think about those people who did work hard, was loyal to a company for 10 years but was laid off and can't find a job which had close to their old earning power. . .

We hear 8-9% unemployment when it's really 15% but that's for those without a degree. It's about 5% I think for people with BS/BS. Even with a low unemployment rate, people with degrees are still having problems finding a job.

You should do what gives you the best percentage chances for long term success, and there is no doubt that is college. Yes, there are people with degrees who struggle. And yes, there are people without that don't. But you play the percentages, which overwhelmingly support the educated. Increase your income potential, decrease your chances at unemployment, increase your exposure to the right people and, most importantly, increase the number of choices you have by going to college.

I see this sort of like an argument about wearing a helmet on a motorcycle. Yes, people can get killed wearing a helmet. And people can survive an accident if not wearing one. But do you want to do the cheap thing and hope you get lucky, or make a decision that best improves your odds?

["A"]

I had a chuckle.

Link to original page on YouTube.

[Heed]

Originally Posted by Jiggles

No.

Why?

Originally Posted by Alex

College can open more doors, than choosing not to go can shut. A degree is no guarantee of success, but not having one can be limiting in many areas.

Attachment 16226

from here and elsewhere...

+1

Originally Posted by choneofakind

So far, I've found that these two things don't get along terribly well...


good grades, adequate sleep, social life.





pick 2.

There is some truth to this...Fortunately I am the most introverted person I know and don't mind having a very mild social life.

Originally Posted by CynicalC

Depends on what you're going for. Any kind of engineering or science degree, sure. Arts degrees, not so much. Those are the people crying right now that they graduated and can't get a job. If they got a degree in something that mattered, they wouldn't have a problem.

My biggest problem is I don't know what I really want besides a safe roof over my head, ample income for food, insurance and the whole bit. My interests are motorcycles, hockey, and health (diet), food industry and politics.

I agree about Arts though.

Originally Posted by Domagoj

Social life is overrated. What Rob told you stands.

I believe my life is much easier now because I graduated. Nobody here makes a lot of money, but I do make above average, and I have less hard job than average.

In the whole, there are so many things we humans have dabbled in during history and in present times, and each of them is interesting and curious in it's own way; getting drunk and watching football matches is definetly at the bottom of the list.

Do not shut yourself out of all of it if you can help it. Learning is actually fun.

I somewhat agree in terms of a social life. And learning can be fun...sometimes. :/

Originally Posted by gfloyd2002

The difference between "some college" and an Associates degree seems to be very acute. I always thought not to bother go to go college unless I get a Bachelor's degree.

Originally Posted by emoyer

college opened doors for me. maybe it still does. i think our society may be on the verge of becoming something very different than what it has been for the last couple generations.

but maybe a better question is, what do *you* really want to do with your life? money is great, but happiness is worth more in the long run. i went to engineering school because my mom wanted me to, & she was right about what it would do for me. but i have spent a good portion of my professional life wanting to put a bullet thru my head, especially when i look around & see some of the guys who instead of college went into a trade or started a business, and now they not only seem happier but are also better off financially.

its really much more about who you are than what college will do. follow your heart but count the cost.

just my opinion.

For sure society is a becoming a lot different. Money might not buy happiness but it's sure as hell difficult to be happy if you're not making a good amount. I probably don't have the math skill for engineering -- it just isn't my strong suit.

And my mom always says it's not what you know - it's who you know.

Originally Posted by Ranor

Yes, Especially if you are paid to go there :P

Go on...

Originally Posted by gfloyd2002

Average student doesn't work their way through school. I came out of 7 years of school with about 10 grand. Easy to pay off with job that degree got me. And I didn't have to clean other peoples sh*t to earn it.

that's impressive IMO.

Originally Posted by Boom King

Like others have said, nothing is a guarantee and "worth" is of course relative and different to each person. In general terms though I believe that if you go to college for something that you truly want to learn, enjoy it and work hard then it will be worth it eventually.



Online courses are a convenient option. I've had mixed experiences with them. Some were fine but in other cases, I felt that I would have gotten more of my money's worth and a richer learning experience in an interactive classroom. The one big benefit of classroom environments is being able to network with your peers and professors and build those mutually beneficial relationships. These could potentially open more doors. In fact, I believe this is one of the biggest benefits of a good college education besides just "hitting the books".

i haven't had any schooling in a semester...I think when registration comes around again I'll sign up for some online classes because I'm just not ready to go to a campus I think.

Originally Posted by Skippii

I went to college for 5 years and hated it, studying physics, chemistry, and sociology.
Then I quit and went to another school for another year to study massage therapy. Loved it. I wish I'd never gone to college...but I had no idea that I'd want to be a CMT when I finished high school.

I've been to a community college for two years. I couldn't stand some of my classes, so I ditched nearly half of them. It wasn't so I could goof off somewhere else, but I just didn't feel like it was right for me. Amazingly, there was one class I actually looked forward to attending and I failed that one too. Because I ditched so many, I got suspended. And I haven't been to school this year whatsoever.

I think what I have to do is take online courses even if it's only part time.

Originally Posted by setasai

university, I welcome older students. They tend to be more motivated and almost always catches up/surpasses many younger students.

An immature mind at any education program is in my opinion incredibly wasteful when you have all these other students that work extremely hard to afford it and get in because they want to as opposed to those that go just for the title and nothing more.

I agree. Diversity was the first thing I noticed at my community college. In one of my classes, there were two mothers, one father and a grandmother. I was the only teenager in the room aside from two kids from Pakistan (got green cards via lottery) and a girl from Africa.

Originally Posted by Jiggles

Anyway dude, $23,000 really isn't that much money. Besides it gives you the opportunity to make a ton more money. If graduating with debt concerns you then find a job that will pay for college. I work at AT&T, I sell cell phones, AT&T gives me $5,250 a year to work on a degree in Industrial Engineering, something that is completely unrelated to sales. There are plenty of companies that will help pay for you tuition, you just have to go find them.

Awesome thing about the army is that they pay for all of your school expenses.

Graduating with debt does concern me. The whole college life concerns me. I don't want to be some poor kid living off of Ramen noodles and peanut butter. That would seriously scare the **** out of me.

I have thought about joining the military - maybe the Navy. I know that you need to be smart as hell to get into the Air Force. IDK