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Old September 8th, 2013, 10:26 PM   #1
Scattcatt
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Help Estimate my Spring Rate Please :)

Been having a hard time tracking down what I should switch to for my spring rate, Racetech's calculator is off as we all know, it estimated .85kg/mm for me, which is definitely wrong... I'm thinking I'm probably more along the lines of 1.0kg/mm

The bike is a little lighter than stock, snorkel delete and full carbon fiber Yoshi exhaust would be the only "significant" things though.

I weigh 215 and adding approximately 20 pounds of gear on that so we'll say 235-240 pounds for a zone. What would you estimate for:

A) a racing set?
B) a trackday/spirited riding set?
C) a commuter set?

I'll likely opt for option A or B, but I'm just curious. Judging by some of your guys' weights and riding styles is how I'm estimating I'm probably in the 1.0kg/mm range, I'm not a small dude lol.

Also, I'm installing the gold valve cartridge emulators with the yellow race springs so what fork oil weight and height would you suggest? I think someone previously suggested I should use 7wt or something super light like that.

Thanks!
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Old September 9th, 2013, 03:22 AM   #2
abhijitz
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Seems like it is right (Checked both RaceTech & SonicSprings site) ... SonicSprings also lists 0.85mm for 220lb rider. You might as well talk to RaceTech and SonicSprings

Fyi - I am 172lb without gear and use 0.8kg/mm SonicSprings which is on the stiff side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scattcatt View Post
Been having a hard time tracking down what I should switch to for my spring rate, Racetech's calculator is off as we all know, it estimated .85kg/mm for me, which is definitely wrong... I'm thinking I'm probably more along the lines of 1.0kg/mm

The bike is a little lighter than stock, snorkel delete and full carbon fiber Yoshi exhaust would be the only "significant" things though.

I weigh 215 and adding approximately 20 pounds of gear on that so we'll say 235-240 pounds for a zone. What would you estimate for:

A) a racing set?
B) a trackday/spirited riding set?
C) a commuter set?

I'll likely opt for option A or B, but I'm just curious. Judging by some of your guys' weights and riding styles is how I'm estimating I'm probably in the 1.0kg/mm range, I'm not a small dude lol.

Also, I'm installing the gold valve cartridge emulators with the yellow race springs so what fork oil weight and height would you suggest? I think someone previously suggested I should use 7wt or something super light like that.

Thanks!
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Old September 9th, 2013, 09:01 AM   #3
Scattcatt
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Is the weight I'm using for the bike wrong? According to Wikipedia the bike weighs 375 wet when stock. If I used 370 for the bike and 240 for me, the spring rate according to Sonic Springs would be 1.0 kg/mm for racing and 0.90kg/mm for aggressive.
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Old September 9th, 2013, 09:58 AM   #4
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At that weight use the heaviest spring they offer. I'm 200 lbs all geared up and the .95 was a little on the stiff side but not over kill.

Thats for track use.

Last futzed with by bruce71198; September 9th, 2013 at 10:04 AM. Reason: left out info
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Old September 9th, 2013, 12:01 PM   #5
RacerX113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scattcatt View Post
Been having a hard time tracking down what I should switch to for my spring rate, Racetech's calculator is off as we all know, it estimated .85kg/mm for me, which is definitely wrong... I'm thinking I'm probably more along the lines of 1.0kg/mm

The bike is a little lighter than stock, snorkel delete and full carbon fiber Yoshi exhaust would be the only "significant" things though.

I weigh 215 and adding approximately 20 pounds of gear on that so we'll say 235-240 pounds for a zone. What would you estimate for:

A) a racing set?
B) a trackday/spirited riding set?
C) a commuter set?

I'll likely opt for option A or B, but I'm just curious. Judging by some of your guys' weights and riding styles is how I'm estimating I'm probably in the 1.0kg/mm range, I'm not a small dude lol.

Also, I'm installing the gold valve cartridge emulators with the yellow race springs so what fork oil weight and height would you suggest? I think someone previously suggested I should use 7wt or something super light like that.

Thanks!
I used Race Tech site to calculate my springs...
1.Riding Type Road Racing
2.Weight Units: lbs kg

3.Rider Weight (without gear): 195
4.Bike Weight (semi-wet): 305(default value from race tech)
I've lightened my bike some, but kept it at 300

This spit out .752 kg/mm... So I'm using the .75 spring w/ 10mm pre load. Also using their emulators. The front feels very good to me, but take that for what it's worth.

As far as what fork oil weight and height I used there recomedations as well.... below
Fork Oil (USF05=5w, OSFO 10=10w, US2=10w, US3=15w) OSFO 15 1 qt/liter required Recommended Oil Level 140mm
FYI their rear spring suggestion for me is:

REAR SHOCK SPRINGS
Recommended Shock Spring Rate: 9.035 kg/mm (use closest available)
Stock Shock Spring Rate: 9.3 kg/mm (stock)
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Old September 9th, 2013, 04:56 PM   #6
RedPepper64
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Just a thought, we are installing new springs for my 250 right now and when looking at Race Tech, the weight I was supposed to put into the calculator was without gear. Could that be causing part of the problem?
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Old September 9th, 2013, 06:08 PM   #7
Scattcatt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce71198 View Post
At that weight use the heaviest spring they offer. I'm 200 lbs all geared up and the .95 was a little on the stiff side but not over kill.

Thats for track use.
Judging from this I'm really thinking the 1.0 might be the way to go for me for sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RacerX113 View Post
I used Race Tech site to calculate my springs...
1.Riding Type Road Racing
2.Weight Units: lbs kg

3.Rider Weight (without gear): 195
4.Bike Weight (semi-wet): 305(default value from race tech)
I've lightened my bike some, but kept it at 300

This spit out .752 kg/mm... So I'm using the .75 spring w/ 10mm pre load. Also using their emulators. The front feels very good to me, but take that for what it's worth.

As far as what fork oil weight and height I used there recomedations as well.... below
Fork Oil (USF05=5w, OSFO 10=10w, US2=10w, US3=15w) OSFO 15 1 qt/liter required Recommended Oil Level 140mm
FYI their rear spring suggestion for me is:

REAR SHOCK SPRINGS
Recommended Shock Spring Rate: 9.035 kg/mm (use closest available)
Stock Shock Spring Rate: 9.3 kg/mm (stock)
15wt fork oil? Really? From what I've read, cartridge type forks typically use a light weight oil, is that not the case for emulators?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedPepper64 View Post
Just a thought, we are installing new springs for my 250 right now and when looking at Race Tech, the weight I was supposed to put into the calculator was without gear. Could that be causing part of the problem?
It could be the problem, I've tried several different combinations, all of which yield an even lower spring rate for me lol. I definitely don't think I'm anything less than a 0.9 on the spring rate for sure.
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Old September 9th, 2013, 10:39 PM   #8
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My husband runs 1.0 in the front on his Daytona 675. He's 215 and the bike is a little over 400 lbs.
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Old September 9th, 2013, 10:52 PM   #9
Scattcatt
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Judging from your responses and further research. I've decided that 1.0 would be the best route for me to take then. Looks like I'll have to go through Sonic Springs as Race Tech doesn't appear to offer a 1.0 spring set for the 250. But what about the fork oil?

Come on all you track rats out there running the cartridge emulators! What oil weights are you guys using? Are you going light as my research would suggest? Or are you sticking with the heavy weight 15wt oil that Race Tech suggests which I'm thinking is for the normal damping rod system, not the emulators.

EDIT: Went digging through some past threads and it looks like there are a lot of people sticking with the heavier weights for the emulators, but I don't understand why? Perhaps it's part of the physics that differs between emulators and real cartridge forks? If this is the case, since I am a heavier guy should I increase my fork oil weight even more than you lighter folks racing out there on 15wt? Say, 20wt?
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Old September 9th, 2013, 11:30 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scattcatt View Post
Come on all you track rats out there running the cartridge emulators! What oil weights are you guys using? Are you going light as my research would suggest? Or are you sticking with the heavy weight 15wt oil that Race Tech suggests which I'm thinking is for the normal damping rod system, not the emulators.

EDIT: Went digging through some past threads and it looks like there are a lot of people sticking with the heavier weights for the emulators, but I don't understand why? Perhaps it's part of the physics that differs between emulators and real cartridge forks? If this is the case, since I am a heavier guy should I increase my fork oil weight even more than you lighter folks racing out there on 15wt? Say, 20wt?
I'm using the 15wt at the 140 level as suggested. Just finished installing with the gold emulators, yellow springs, and new stiffer fork springs. Doing the sag and ride height Wednesday after work so I won't have feedback until then.

I'm not sure, but don't the springs take into account weight differences? What would going for heavier fork oil do?
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Old September 10th, 2013, 12:11 AM   #11
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Maybe you take a look over the edge of the plate, the SV guys are doing a lot of this stuff, i.e. here http://www.svrider.com/forum/showthread.php?t=105326
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