Rear end feeling squirrelly

[Buffalony]

Hey can anyone tell me what might lead to the rear end feeling alittle haywire in tight sharp turns.
I was out today and was taking some turns more aggressively than usual and the rear end felt abit hairy and unstable.

145lbs,rear shock on step 2,tires max psi, not much near to the nipples.

[Banzai]

Road condition? Weather? Tire type/size?

[kkim]

Originally Posted by Buffalony

145lbs,rear shock on step 2,tires max psi, not much near to the nipples.

what's your tire pressures?

[Buffalony]

Originally Posted by Banzai

Road condition? Weather? Tire type/size?

Various but average conditions/80 degrees clear/Stock dunlops

Originally Posted by kkim

what's your tire pressures?

28Front/32 rear

[kkim]

have you done any chain slack adjustment or rear wheel alignment recently?

[addy126]

I hold by my own thoughts... ditch the stocks and replace with "sticky" tires.. I've done 1 set on the 2007 and 1 on the 2009.. always love the sticky and grip with the Pirelli Sport Demons.. tones down the stock IRC or Dunlops skittish response in tight, quick turns.

[addy126]

Kim.... tell me something. On the 2007 the front end on tight turns always stayed planted and if I slid further to the back of the seat I could really plant the back end and force the turn more without the front diving down a little. I've noticed on the 2009 I have of course little room to slide back and when I do go into a quick tighter turn the front end dives alittle which gives me a little feeling that a highside might come up if I push it any further so I slow down and regroup thru the turn... and personal experience and suggestions? That I think would be considered a "squirrely" front end.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by addy126

I hold by my own thoughts... ditch the stocks and replace with "sticky" tires.. I've done 1 set on the 2007 and 1 on the 2009.. always love the sticky and grip with the Pirelli Sport Demons.. tones down the stock IRC or Dunlops skittish response in tight, quick turns.

addy... Joe has a 2008. he either has bt45s or dunlop 501s as his stock tires. both are pretty sticky tires with the bt45s having the edge.

in your case, the 2009s came with IRC tires, which are proving to be not so great a sticky tire for the 250. If you are referring to the dunlops on your pregen, they were notoriously crappy tires (different model) and are not to be confused w/ the 501s that came on the 08s.

the sport demons seem to be the stickiest of all the bias ply tires available in stock OEM sizes.

[kkim]

Originally Posted by addy126

Kim.... tell me something. On the 2007 the front end on tight turns always stayed planted and if I slid further to the back of the seat I could really plant the back end and force the turn more without the front diving down a little. I've noticed on the 2009 I have of course little room to slide back and when I do go into a quick tighter turn the front end dives alittle which gives me a little feeling that a highside might come up if I push it any further so I slow down and regroup thru the turn... and personal experience and suggestions? That I think would be considered a "squirrely" front end.

brake, corner, then accelerate through any corner if possible.

[HKr1]

Originally Posted by Buffalony

28Front/32 rear

Try 26F/29R and see how it feels in the corners. I find that running max psi isnt a very good thing.

[addy126]

Thanx Kelly thats the method of turnin I do... maybe cranking to much on turnin the front end and not leaning enough... and gotcha on the '08 tire models.... u lucky people!

[Buffalony]

Originally Posted by kkim

have you done any chain slack adjustment or rear wheel alignment recently?

Yes I did. Why? Its time to do it again. Should I be looking for anything specific?

Thanks for the replys guys. I did lower the tires 2 psi and its still alittle funky.

[kkim]

yes, it could be that your chain is too tight or you are misaligned. how did you align your rear wheel?

[Buffalony]

measured the bolts

[kkim]

...and your chain slack?

[Buffalony]

tight. like .5

[kkim]

that's the problem. You want at least 1" of play midway along the run of the chain. back off the adjusters some to get the proper 1" play and see if that doesn't solve your problem.

[Buffalony]

will do. Im due for an lube/adjustment. will post back when complete.

[Cali619]

are you entering the turn a little to hot and the front and rear may not have the desired 60/40 balance? Not sure but from what some people are mentioning it could be how much force is on each tire in the turn not the tires themselves?

[almost40]

If it were me, I would put the rear back to the first position. Were close in weight and I thought the 2nd position on the rear shock made my bike a little squirrley.
Dont forget to lose some of that air in the tires. Max pressure is way too much.

[Buffalony]

Originally Posted by almost40

If it were me, I would put the rear back to the first position. Were close in weight and I thought the 2nd position on the rear shock made my bike a little squirrley.
Dont forget to lose some of that air in the tires. Max pressure is way too much.

i was just going to say this. Im going to put the rear spring back to 1 if the chain adjustment doesnt get me further. I already attempted to but couldnt get at the spring easliy with the hugger in the way.

I havent ruled out technique.

[Nexion]

I honestly have nothing to contribute to this thread, but the word "squirrelly" in the title made me laugh.

[Buffalony]

haha. I dont know where I got that from.lol I think I heard it from another member. It was the best way I could describe how its acting. It is silly though.

[ScorpionNinja]

Originally Posted by kkim

yes, it could be that your chain is too tight or you are misaligned. how did you align your rear wheel?

Aye... im feeling a slight wobble... but dont notice it in turns, i noticed it as im doing like 5MPH, in bumper to bumper traffic yesterday. I did adjust my chain/rear wheel the other day. Then what you guys are saying Conferms my first thought... my Chain is too tight! I bought some stuff from JC whitney.com last week, and to top off my Order of $99.99 for FREE S&H, i got the Motion-Pro chain alignment tool. Used it, and with the Chain-Adjuster Bolts Threads/Equal thing... i think i got the rear tire and sprockets all set up good... i just set my Chain too tight. After work Thurs. ill be working to Fix this!

[Broom]

Originally Posted by addy126

Kim.... tell me something. On the 2007 the front end on tight turns always stayed planted and if I slid further to the back of the seat I could really plant the back end and force the turn more without the front diving down a little. I've noticed on the 2009 I have of course little room to slide back and when I do go into a quick tighter turn the front end dives alittle which gives me a little feeling that a highside might come up if I push it any further so I slow down and regroup thru the turn... and personal experience and suggestions? That I think would be considered a "squirrely" front end.

highsides are caused by loosing the rear, then it re-griping and catapulting (via the suspension) you over the bike.

do your turn smooth and within your limits and you should be fine. read "twist of the wrist 2" if you really want to get into the physics of where your weight is.

[Nemy]

Originally Posted by Buffalony

haha. I dont know where I got that from.lol I think I heard it from another member. It was the best way I could describe how its acting. It is silly though.

lol! And welcome back to the forums joe!

[Nexion]

Originally Posted by Buffalony

haha. I dont know where I got that from.lol I think I heard it from another member. It was the best way I could describe how its acting. It is silly though.

The thread name popped up on the front page and it made me laugh.

[ScorpionNinja]

Well after looking over the Bikes rear wheel alignment, and chain alignment... they checked out just Fine .(not perfect but close as possible)
Checked the chain slack... OMG tighter then my Sister!!! lol
When i did my adjustment days ago, i mustve ****ed up and used the 'Loose' chain slack for the starting point. Anyhow i got the chain slack to 1" -ish, tightened everything down as spec'd,etc! Took Nate for a Test ride around the block afew times, up to 45MPH and down to 5 MPH... all "Noise" and Handling seems, Sounds all normal and such. I will be keeping an Ear/Eye on it this weekend!

So my rear wheel had a slight wobble to it, during bumper to bumper 5 MPH traffic, Loud "Noise" from the front sprocket and such. All because of a Tight Chain, that when i did a quick adjustment... 'Eyeballing the slack and such" wasnt a Good measure! lol

my tires PSI
front:27
rear: 28

my weight: 166 Lbs.


So if once you get your rear wheel alignment and chain slack adjusted Right, doesnt solve your Noise* issue or whatever, Then maybe the Output Shaft or a Bearing is going bad instead? Hope this helps!

[kkim]

so, Joe... did you readjust the chain?

[Buffalony]

Originally Posted by Nemy

lol! And welcome back to the forums joe!

Thanks Tim. Glad to be back. Let me know when you'll be back in the area again. Hopefully you guys enjoyed yourselfs at niawanda park. BTW:canal fest is going on this week up until Sunday.Its right around that area. "I'm on a boat" all of Sunday. I Might take a ride up there Sat. I should have my chain squared away by then atleast. I plan to get the enhanced license soon too so I can get over the border again. I'll let ya know Brah.

Originally Posted by kkim

so, Joe... did you readjust the chain?

No Kelly. I had plans to do it Sat. but that fell through cause of work.
I had to spend 4hrs Sunday washing just the outside of my car! lol The inside is still filthy. After that I attempted to work on the chain but fought with that stinking A-tech fender for 20 mins trying to figure out how the hell I got it on there without breaking it, then gave up! So the rest of Sundays daylight was spent pampering the XJ with very fine steel wool.

I do have alot of things going on at once with my little ninjette at the moment and the chain is No.1 on the list.
I'm also still having problems with the front end at 35-40mph which is becoming more noticible at higher speeds. I retorqued with no different result. I think the bearings were pressed wrong and might just have to take it in. I just want the bike to ride smooth and it doesnt.
I believe its supposed to be raining mid week and I will attack the chain then. Will post results ASAP.
BTW: I caught ur discussion with Alex months back about chain alignment.lol.
Do you think measuring the bolts is good enough?

[kkim]

Originally Posted by Buffalony

BTW: I caught ur discussion with Alex months back about chain alignment.lol.
Do you think measuring the bolts is good enough?

it's supposed to be the other way around, check with the string and verify with the bolts, but I guess you can do the bolts first then verify with the strings later. I'd not just keep using the bolts w/o checking as every bike is a bit different and needs checking to establish a baseline/reference.

for now, though... use the bolt method.

[Xuracing]

Those stock tires... are quite piss poor in my opinion! I would ditch them and get some new ones!

[Buffalony]

So First I did the chain maintence. It eased things up some but the rear still felt like it was getting away from me so then I back off on the rear shock and that seemed to help the most. The feeling was really only present when turning city corners. Now with the suspension on 1 I dont like the way thing feel on long sweeping turns on the highway!! sheesh. I am still running soft on the tire pressure. so I'll play around with that now to see if that helps on the highway. If not im just going to go to level 2 on the rear an go slower around corners.
Sorry for the late reply guys Ive had alot going on lately. Thanks

Im gonna have to wear these stockers down first before I look at getting new rubber. Seems like the economical way to go for me.

rry. Ive been pretty busy

[tjkamper]

One thing I have noticed on all bikes I have ridden, is that if you come to a section of road where the pavement is uneven (or hilly as I like to call it... Kinda like washboard, but smoother and further apart) The bike will tend to track arround those little hills. This is even more pronounced when going slow and even more still when breaking. There is this one section right infront of my office where the road is terrible and it feels almost like the back tire has no traction what so ever. I have found that it is more pronounce with the stiffer preload setting, but I like the stiff preload when on the highway so I decided I can live with it.

When this first happened to me years ago I though there was something wrong with my bike. I checked everything out and it all seemed to be okay. Plus I never noticed it except when on those roads with "hilly" pavement.

I would look at the roads where it has felt funky and see if that is your problem.

[Buffalony]

ya. I think ur right. Ill have to find a happy median and live with it.

I'll check the corners where Ive felt it and post back.
Off the top of my head I know that one is a high traffic main route that probably does have slight tire grooves worn in. I remember the pavement looks like its coarse too. So probably when turning that corner the least thats going on is Im getting some of those grooves while while entering my line.

[backinthesaddleagain]

Originally Posted by tjkamper

One thing I have noticed on all bikes I have ridden, is that if you come to a section of road where the pavement is uneven (or hilly as I like to call it... Kinda like washboard, but smoother and further apart) The bike will tend to track arround those little hills. This is even more pronounced when going slow and even more still when breaking. There is this one section right infront of my office where the road is terrible and it feels almost like the back tire has no traction what so ever. I have found that it is more pronounce with the stiffer preload setting, but I like the stiff preload when on the highway so I decided I can live with it.

When this first happened to me years ago I though there was something wrong with my bike. I checked everything out and it all seemed to be okay. Plus I never noticed it except when on those roads with "hilly" pavement.

I would look at the roads where it has felt funky and see if that is your problem.

similar experience here with roads that are uneven left to right, or repaved recently but not yet a finish coat. some roads rear tire just feels like its going flat, moving around. preload still at softest. just a couple days ago i pulled over to check it and it was fine pressurewise. a mile later down the road and it rode fine again. left the house with 31f, 32r cold psi. had just cleaned, waxed, adjusted the chain by turning each side 1/2 turn (keeping previous alignment) and counting exposed threads. hard to eyeball tire/swingarm clearance due to the chain guard on left side, but looks good. will string it asap. slack is right at 1". i dont have rear stand but measured slack at same place between f and r sprockets, then rolled bike a couple feet and remeasured (PITA).

[backinthesaddleagain]

bumping preload from 1 - 3 made big difference on same roads, might back down to 2 tomorrow to see if that is a good compromise for me.