Bike not wanting to rev past ~5k while driving

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Pulled the plugs and cleaned them and checked the gap, they seemed fine. I drained the bowls and tried to restart and couldn't turn over still. I eventually got clicks from my battery so now it's on a trickle charge until tomorrow......I hope it's not starting because of the battery. Last time I did get it starting I only ran it for a minute so I'm guessing that did not charge the battery much and attempts to start it later just drained the battery further. If this doesn't work I may pull the carbs once more and disassemble and get ready to rejet as my pods n needles are coming in the mail monday.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

As far as checking out the floats as someone mentioned prior- ........I haven't seen this listed anywhere online so I thought I'd type it. I'm going to measure mine tomorrow even though I didn't tamper with the "tangs" at all.

http://forums.ninja250.org/posting.p...&t=85429&tro=1

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

So got the battery back from the auto shop all nice and charged up, I go to start the bike and same problem. It just doesn't wanna turn over. Ok, it's NOT the battery.

I take the carbs out and what do I see? My gasket maker ran into the bowls and was blocking the float plugs from closing LMAO. There was all this gasket maker floating around; some of it dry, some of it still fluid. I was gonna take pics so you guys could laugh/berate me but I was in a hurry to get the job done. I put gasket maker on it because the o-rings are smashed and weren't sealing. So yeah, whoever told me to see why the bowls weren't closing was spot on, I regret not listening to you sooner.

So this time I shut the bowls first, then put the gasket maker around the rim. I'm hoping this works because if not that's $60 for some @$%@$$% o-rings I have to wait a week for. Seriously?

This time I remembered to pull the idle mix screws and cleaned all that milky crap off them and backed them off 2.5 turns each. I could not get the jets that are down the metal shaft still though.... I am pretty confident this is going to work now I'm just worried about fuel leaking around the tops of the bowls like before.... Threw a new chain on and some red LEDs under the seat in the meantime. My new jets/pods are coming on Monday maybe they will come w/ o-rings....... /end rant

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Tried starting it, sounds the same. Tried bumpstarting it, it seems to turn on for a split second then die. I'm not supposed to hit the starter button am I? I tried it in first and pretty sure in 2nd as well.....

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Is it possible my engine is flooded and if it is, how do I alleviate that?

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

Is it possible my engine is flooded and if it is, how do I alleviate that?

Took sparkplugs out and they were dryyyyy. Out of ideas. So stumped on this one...... Battery is good, carbs are no longer leaking, spark plugs are clean and gapped and reasonably new......

[Motofool]

Does the engine rotates when you push the bike, but does not when you try the electric starter?

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Does the engine rotates when you push the bike, but does not when you try the electric starter?

Pretty sure it does both times because I thought it was gonna start a couple times with the starter.

Gonna go make sure the sidestand switch is connected....

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Side stand switch is fine

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

It would make sense that it has something to do with the air/fuel mixture. I started the bike up just fine after I had first put the carbs back on (without the gasket maker) but shut down because the carbs were leaking. I then took out the carbs and put the gasket maker on (improperly) and that's when the fuel started coming out of the overflow tube. Since then I have not been able to start it!!!!!! Does the engine flood when the carbs do?

[Motofool]

Did you finally check the level that the fuel is reaching inside the bowls?

Are you sure that the cockpit is delivering fuel to the carbs? (Remember that it needs the vacuum of the rotating engine to allow fuel going down).

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

I also want to mention when I try to start it the engine sounds a lot slower than normal. Maybe not half as slow but in between normal cranking speed and half.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Did you finally check the level that the fuel is reaching inside the bowls?

Are you sure that the cockpit is delivering fuel to the carbs? (Remember that it needs the vacuum of the rotating engine to allow fuel going down).

No I never checked this level......I never tampered with the "tangs" so I didn't think I would need to........ I dont think you can put the tangs in backwards on the floats either...

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Did you finally check the level that the fuel is reaching inside the bowls?

Are you sure that the cockpit is delivering fuel to the carbs? (Remember that it needs the vacuum of the rotating engine to allow fuel going down).

Did you mean petcock? I know the fuel is going there because I bled the carbs when I uninstalled them and i also have to drain the carbs every time I take the gas tank off....

[Motofool]

Before you kill the battery again, would be good to verify that the bowls at least are not dry.

Is it possible that some of the goo went into the small passages and jets?

If the carbs have gas, the passages are clean and the plugs are delivering sparks, you should see at least a few explosions.

Play with different degrees of open throttle during start attempts.

Sorry, I got to go now.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Before you kill the battery again, would be good to verify that the bowls at least are not dry.

Is it possible that some of the goo went into the small passages and jets?

If the carbs have gas, the passages are clean and the plugs are delivering sparks, you should see at least a few explosions.

Play with different degrees of open throttle during start attempts.

Sorry, I got to go now.

Bowls are wet. I recleaned the carbs today they are clean as can be, save the ones down the metal passage I couldn't unscrew (pilot jets?)
The engine did turn over very briefly for me when I ran like the wind with my bike and popped the clutch but died soon after. I highly doubt bumping is gonna work and is why I'm here and not outside sweating bullets. I did try WOT and more choke/no choke combos but it all just sounds the same.

I took the air filter out and tried it WOT but sounded exactly the same....

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Maybe some water got in the fuel tank because I have had to drive in the rain so often..... I am gonna buy a fuel tank and some fresh gas and see if she won't run then.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Would the bike still start if only one spark plug was operational?

[Motofool]

Sorry, Justin, I am back.

You have a mystery there.

Another condition for proper start up is enough compression in the cylinders.
Low compression may happen due to broken or worn rings or valves that don't close completely.

If you are certain that the carbs are working as they should: clean jets, clean air passages, vacuum actuated diaphragms, level of fuel inside the bowl within specification, being fed by the petcock; then, you could start checking the sparks and the compression.

Check this out:

http://www.dansmc.com/compression_test.htm

[choneofakind]

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

Would the bike still start if only one spark plug was operational?

Mine did. But it barely limped home, and refused to idle without playing with the throttle.

[Rollingmenace]

Just another thing to consider that I don't think anyone has mentioned yet.. Compression fouled spark plugs .. Meaning that when pulled out they will fire but once they are reinstalled under compression they won't fire or fire correctly... I've had this issue on my Honda .. These plugs are cheap enough to pick up a few sets and at least rule that out...

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

My bike has 13k miles on it I wouldn't expect it to run one minute, sit, and then not run all of a sudden from a worn ring but I will look into buying a compression tester as I can always use it in the future. I do have some autolite plugs I bought in error I can throw in to see what happens. I will have to order some of the correct type if they are bad. I hope they are just wet! I am going to try to turn the alternator over with a rachet while leaving the plugs/wires out to see if any fuel pops out

[Motofool]

Be very gentle with the threads of the cylinder head; they strip very easily, especially if you screw-unscrew the plug while the aluminum is hot.

Many compression testers don't have the adapter for that thread.
Sometimes, pushing a conical-shape rubber against the hole will give you an idea about if you have enough compression, if you can't seal it at cranking rpms'.

Another thing: did you verify that the valve timing was correct during your valve's adjustment?

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Be very gentle with the threads of the cylinder head; they strip very easily, especially if you screw-unscrew the plug while the aluminum is hot.

Many compression testers don't have the adapter for that thread.
Sometimes, pushing a conical-shape rubber against the hole will give you an idea about if you have enough compression, if you can't seal it at cranking rpms'.

Another thing: did you verify that the valve timing was correct during your valve's adjustment?

I didn't verify timing no but I did get it to start and run after I did the adjustment.....

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

The oil's sight glass shows the 'oil' has risen a little bit I THINK. Would it be good to drain some of the 'oil' and see if it starts? I'm guessing I'm gonna have to change the oil as well......

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Results of the compression test after repeated readings:

Left cylinder: 30 psi
Right cylinder: 50 psi

This is wide open throttle and little to no fuel but the engine is cranking.

[Motofool]

That is way low!
However, your engine is cold and this test should be done with a hot engine.

The specification pressure is 140 psi minimum / 210 psi maximum at 470 rpm.

In order to check if the problem is rings, head gasket or valves, you could put a few drops of oil inside the combustion chamber (not much) and repeat the test.

If your oil level is higher, take a sample and check for water (milky) or fuel (strong smell of gas).

Also, open the radiator and look for floating oil.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

I think that's the next logical step. Did I mention I put in the autolites and nothing changed? I checked the fuel height in the bowls and it was ok. I did notice a tiny bit of gasket maker floating around in the fuel though

But yeah, the oil level seems to be rising so I think fuel might have seeped down into the sump? I'm so desperate at this point I think I'll do an oil change tomorrow...... I have so much going on this is such bad timing from my red rocket.

[Motofool]

Feel sorry for you; I hope you have another transportation.

I wouldn't rush changing the oil until the engine finally starts or the problem is found.
If some more fuel or water leaks into the fresh oil, it would be ruined and you will need to replace it again.

Another test that can tell you if and what valves may be leaking (read the last paragraphs):

http://www.dansmc.com/leakdown.htm

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Feel sorry for you; I hope you have another transportation.

I wouldn't rush changing the oil until the engine finally starts or the problem is found.
If some more fuel or water leaks into the fresh oil, it would be ruined and you will need to replace it again.

Another test that can tell you if and what valves may be leaking (read the last paragraphs):

http://www.dansmc.com/leakdown.htm

I think i'll just drain a little bit and see what happens, I'm not sure if an engine will refuse to start with too much oil or fuel/water in the oil. I have yet to try out fresh fuel though. It rains a ton in Fl as you know so water may have seeped into the tank. This isn't likely though as I had the bike running fine a couple hours before I flooded the carbs....

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Hindsight bias: Realizing after seeing your oil level rise that you had flooded your engine from carbs that were flooding like hell.

Took a little sniff at the oil sump and the way it's smelling I could throw it in the gas tank and use it for fuel. I'm off to the store to buy new oil/filter. The oil smelled like pure gasoline. Hindsight is 20/20

[choneofakind]

Good idea. Gas doesn't make great lubricant.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Looking back I find this to be really funny as it all started from smashed o-rings. I've probably spent more than $60 at least in time from not buying them. But I was forced to learn how the carbs work. Now I can jet/pod more confidently

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Tried starting the bike w/ my new honey colored oil in and it won't start and sounds exactly the same. I'd like to romanticize the idea that the gas is bad but based on the sound I'm not convinced.
I know this much:

The carbs are delivering fuel
My air filter and air flow is functioning as it should.
My gas tank is delivering fuel (hence the flooded engine/oil sump).
My plugs are gapped and clean (I put new plugs in and nothing changed)
The starter is spinning the engine.
My battery is charged.

I am not sure that the fuel is ok, nor am I sure my plugs are sparking. The engine doesn't make any sort of noise resembling a combustion. It just sounds like the starter is turning the motor and compressed air out. Could this be a coil issue? How would I test that? Why would they take a dump on me all of a sudden?? Any ideas guys?

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

The bike was only revving to 5k, so maybe it is in fact one of the coils.....

[coughing skunk]

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

Tried starting the bike w/ my new honey colored oil in and it won't start and sounds exactly the same. I'd like to romanticize the idea that the gas is bad but based on the sound I'm not convinced.
I know this much:

The carbs are delivering fuel
My air filter and air flow is functioning as it should.
My gas tank is delivering fuel (hence the flooded engine/oil sump).
My plugs are gapped and clean (I put new plugs in and nothing changed)
The starter is spinning the engine.
My battery is charged.

I am not sure that the fuel is ok, nor am I sure my plugs are sparking. The engine doesn't make any sort of noise resembling a combustion. It just sounds like the starter is turning the motor and compressed air out. Could this be a coil issue? How would I test that? Why would they take a dump on me all of a sudden?? Any ideas guys?

I had a similar series of event happen when I first bought my 73 xs650. Brought it home and didn't shut the petcocks off. The carbs never shut off and leaked gas into the cylinders for the couple of days I let it sit. Went to fire it up and it would spit for a second and die. Found out after a day or two of investigating that the oil was probably half gas at that point and did an oil change. Still wouldn't start up, and it turned out to being bad plugs. After trying to kick start that thing and fouling the plugs with the gas/oil mix I needed to get new plugs. Story short, I would recommend getting a new set of plugs and then make sure that your oil is gas free.

Also, you said you've got stupidly low compression on both sides. Are you sure that you are performing the compression test correctly? Even cold, I would imagine that there would be more pressure than what you reported.

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

Originally Posted by coughing skunk

I had a similar series of event happen when I first bought my 73 xs650. Brought it home and didn't shut the petcocks off. The carbs never shut off and leaked gas into the cylinders for the couple of days I let it sit. Went to fire it up and it would spit for a second and die. Found out after a day or two of investigating that the oil was probably half gas at that point and did an oil change. Still wouldn't start up, and it turned out to being bad plugs. After trying to kick start that thing and fouling the plugs with the gas/oil mix I needed to get new plugs. Story short, I would recommend getting a new set of plugs and then make sure that your oil is gas free.

Also, you said you've got stupidly low compression on both sides. Are you sure that you are performing the compression test correctly? Even cold, I would imagine that there would be more pressure than what you reported.

The only thing I could think of that I would be doing wrong is not cranking the engine longer, but the needle does top out at the readings I got after ~5 revolutions (of the alternator)

[FvnnyL3tt3r1ng]

I did put a new pair of autolites in to check and see if the plugs were bad and it sounded exactly the same.....this was before the oil change. I'm worried about flooding the engine again before I find the solution....

[coughing skunk]

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

I did put a new pair of autolites in to check and see if the plugs were bad and it sounded exactly the same.....this was before the oil change. I'm worried about flooding the engine again before I find the solution....

If you flood the engine while starting it just crank the throttle wide open to let more air in.

Have you verified that you have spark? To me it sounds like you may now have a mixture issue of running too rich after tampering with the carbs.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by FvnnyL3tt3r1ng

.......I'm worried about flooding the engine again before I find the solution....

Just keep the petcock closed anytime the engine is off.

You need to sort out and fix those low values of compression.