Cant start with choke or stalls

Rafalski · August 2nd, 2009, 10:23 PM

So i cant start the bike with the choke on. and when i open the choke while warmin it up, the revs start dropping the lower the choke i move toward myself.

Which is a little odd.

08 ninja btw.

kkim · August 2nd, 2009, 10:25 PM

are you turning the throttle when you have the choke on when you are trying to start it? does the bike start w/o the choke?

Rafalski · August 2nd, 2009, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

are you turning the throttle when you have the choke on when you are trying to start it? does the bike start w/o the choke?

Yeah choke is farthest away from me. Bike starts up, then i let it idle to warm up, now if i move the choke toward me the revs begin to drop.. so i put it back far away from me so it doesnt stall.

kkim · August 2nd, 2009, 10:57 PM

how long are you letting it warm up before you move the lever toward you?

Rafalski · August 2nd, 2009, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

how long are you letting it warm up before you move the lever toward you?

I was doing it right away, as your supposed to warm it up with a choke right?

kkim · August 2nd, 2009, 11:39 PM

yes, start the bike with the choke on and let it rev about 2-2.5K. Keep moving the lever towards the off position in increments, but keep the revs in that range. As the bike warms up w/ the choke on, the revs will want to climb, so readjust the choke lever when it does that. After a few minutes (depending on the bike) you will be able to turn off the choke completely and the bike should be able to idle with the choke completely off.

Rafalski · August 2nd, 2009, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

yes, start the bike with the choke on and let it rev about 2-2.5K. Keep moving the lever towards the off position in increments, but keep the revs in that range. As the bike warms up w/ the choke on, the revs will want to climb, so readjust the choke lever when it does that. After a few minutes (depending on the bike) you will be able to turn off the choke completely and the bike should be able to idle with the choke completely off.

It doesnt turn on with the choke on. Thats the thing. If i start it with choke off itll go up to 1.2 k then if i move the choke on the rpms drop down below that. and go lower as i move the choke on. So i turn it off.

zartan · August 3rd, 2009, 12:06 AM

has it been rejetted or shimmed?
I rarely ever use the choke I have both rejet and shimms
Mine just warms up on its own with a couple blips of the throttle.

kkim · August 3rd, 2009, 12:17 AM

check your choke cable slack adjustment. it's outlined in the owner's manual.

has it always done this or is the bike new to you?

rockNroll · August 3rd, 2009, 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rafalski

Yeah choke is farthest away from me. Bike starts up, then i let it idle to warm up, now if i move the choke toward me the revs begin to drop.. so i put it back far away from me so it doesnt stall.

Pulling the choke lever towards you closes the choke, making the bike run rich for cold starts. As the bike warms up you open the choke by pushing the lever forward (away from you). You're just doin it backwards.

TrueFaith · August 3rd, 2009, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockNroll

Pulling the choke lever towards you closes the choke, making the bike run rich for cold starts. As the bike warms up you open the choke by pushing the lever forward (away from you). You're just doin it backwards.

Yeah, I was just thinking the same thing. The lever should be closest to you when starting the bike, not farthest away. You push it away from you as the bike warms up.

Rafalski · August 3rd, 2009, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockNroll

Pulling the choke lever towards you closes the choke, making the bike run rich for cold starts. As the bike warms up you open the choke by pushing the lever forward (away from you). You're just doin it backwards.

Really because everything i read on the 08 model the choke closest to you opens it, farthest away close's it.

rockNroll · August 3rd, 2009, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rafalski

Really because everything i read on the 08 model the choke closest to you opens it, farthest away close's it.

Yes, really

Rafalski · August 3rd, 2009, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockNroll

Yes, really

They should really put which way is on and off. SO i been riding with the choke on all the time then. Let me try it the other way. Choke away move it down after a min or 2.

Alex · August 3rd, 2009, 10:32 AM

Rather than open/closed, let's use on/off. You want the choke off when you're riding normall, but you want the choke on to start it, in most cases. So you sit on the bike, pull the lever all the way closest to you. Start the bike and the revs are probably up in the 3k - 4k range. Back out the driveway, start riding as normal, and after 30 - 60 seconds you can push the lever all the way back forward to turn the choke off and you're good to go.

TrueFaith · August 3rd, 2009, 02:30 PM

Yeah, don't get hung up on "open" or "closed". Towards you to start, away from you to run normally.
Or if you're looking at the choke from the very end of the bar it's on it's right to start, left to run.

Rafalski · August 3rd, 2009, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

Rather than open/closed, let's use on/off. You want the choke off when you're riding normall, but you want the choke on to start it, in most cases. So you sit on the bike, pull the lever all the way closest to you. Start the bike and the revs are probably up in the 3k - 4k range. Back out the driveway, start riding as normal, and after 30 - 60 seconds you can push the lever all the way back forward to turn the choke off and you're good to go.

When the choke is closest to me it drops in revs. i turn it on choke far away itll be at about 1.3k idle then as i move it toward me it drops below that.

kkim · August 3rd, 2009, 07:17 PM

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/What_is..._at_startup%3F

Rafalski · August 3rd, 2009, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/What_is..._at_startup%3F

as i pull toward me the idles drop. So when i use the choke my idles drop. IT does not explain that in there.

kkim · August 3rd, 2009, 11:45 PM

if it does that, something's wrong with your choke. (obviously)

has it always done this? new to you bike? just started doing this?? ... more info is needed.

elars · August 4th, 2009, 10:41 AM

When I was young and cars still had chokes (okay I was like 5, haha) I always thought the choke symbol was an N for neutral, and got really confused by the turtle and rabbit. I thought it was like, go slow and go fast mode

They should put the turtle and rabbit back on there. Nostalgia. :P

TrueFaith · August 4th, 2009, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/What_is..._at_startup%3F

You seem to be posting that a lot lately Kelly.

What's going to happen when the cold weather gets here?

kkim · August 4th, 2009, 02:58 PM

well, if I do as suggested by another forum member here, I shouldn't even bother posting that.... I should just not respond to repeated questions that make me sigh.

Banzai · August 4th, 2009, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

well, if I do as suggested by another forum member here, I shouldn't even bother posting that.... I should just not respond to repeated questions that make me sigh.

It runs in cycles (edit to add=little bike joke there!). We'll eventually reach the critical mass where anyone will post the correct answer, and the rest of us will just read it, nod our heads in agreement, forgo the discussion and debate (again), and the thread will cycle to the bottom in short order.

kkim · August 4th, 2009, 03:59 PM

lol... on other forums I've been on, when it gets to that state, I tell them to search.

Rafalski · August 4th, 2009, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

if it does that, something's wrong with your choke. (obviously)

has it always done this? new to you bike? just started doing this?? ... more info is needed.

Always done it let me give you a better explanation.

Choke is farthest away from me.
I put in key in ignition turn it on killswitch is off.
click starter
Starts up
Begins idling at my set amount of 1.3k

Runs fine.

Pull choke closer to me to warm baby up.. as it passes the play portion and is engaging revs start dropping
The closer it goes the lower the rpms.
Then i pussy out cuz i dont want it to bottle up and stall so i move it back farthest away from me.
And it goes back to idling at 1.3k

Then i just let it heat up like that and ride away.

New bike, had it since july 28th ish.

Alex · August 4th, 2009, 11:03 PM

Something isn't right with the bike. The closer you pull that lever to you, the higher the revs should go. The farther you push that lever away, the lower the revs will go. If the engine is completely cold, some of them will not start without the choke, and will not hold enough revs to stay running with the choke pushed all the way away from you. It does sound like your bike is behaving in the exact opposite manner. I guess there's a chance that the choke cable is somehow mounted incorrectly and is manipulating the choke opposite to how we'd expect, but that sounds like quite a longshot.

kkim · August 4th, 2009, 11:12 PM

try this... pull choke towards you all the way, then hit start button w/o touching throttle. bike will stumble to life and rev to about 3-4000. adjust the idle so it idles at 2500. rev the throttle a bit and the bike will rev higher... keep adjusting the choke so the bike stays at 2500.

after a few minutes, you'll be able to turn the choke completely off then the bike should idle at your preset idle. I set mine to 1500 after the engine is completely warmed.

are you the original owner?

Rafalski · August 4th, 2009, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

try this... pull choke towards you all the way, then hit start button w/o touching throttle. bike will stumble to life and rev to about 3-4000. adjust the idle so it idles at 2500. rev the throttle a bit and the bike will rev higher... keep adjusting the choke so the bike stays at 2500.

after a few minutes, you'll be able to turn the choke completely off then the bike should idle at your preset idle. I set mine to 1500 after the engine is completely warmed.

are you the original owner?

Ill try this and post my findings.
Never tried starting while in full choke but starts fine with choke off.

Question i adjust idle using the little side thing but wouldnt that mean re adjusting it everytime i ride, so that it can go back to a steady idle.
Owners manual says to keep it at 1.3k

Rafalski · August 10th, 2009, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rafalski

Ill try this and post my findings.
Never tried starting while in full choke but starts fine with choke off.

Question i adjust idle using the little side thing but wouldnt that mean re adjusting it everytime i ride, so that it can go back to a steady idle.
Owners manual says to keep it at 1.3k

So i did it that way and it works. But sometimes it wont start up itll stall right away, so it takes 1 or 2 or 3 starts before the whole thing starts up with choke open while with it closed its first time everytime.

g21-30 · August 10th, 2009, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rafalski

while with it closed its first time everytime.

Maybe I missed something! If it starts without the choke, then don't use the choke and be VERY grateful!

When the weather gets colder, do you think it will still start without the choke? If it does, what more could you ask for?

Are we trying to create a problem by forcing the use of the choke? Adjust your idle with the black knob on the left side beneath the seat, after the bike is warmed up. Next, go ride it and stop worrying. If there is a real problem, I'm sure it will present itself at a later date.

====

EDIT: I considered your situation and here is some additional info that has been alluded to previously by others (Zartan):

If the prior owner changed the jetting this would allow starting cold with little or no "choke". This would also cause the bike to die with any choke applied while warm. A dyno-jet kit could and would change the jetting. One or two sizes up on the pilot jet almost eliminates the need for the choke.

Do the plugs look black like its running rich? If yes, maybe the choke (enricher) is staying on just a little, not sealing. This would happen if the cable is mis-routed or poor adjustment. This would cause the bike to run slightly rich all the time. The choke cable operates both carbs. (two enrichers). YMMV

Rafalski · August 10th, 2009, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by g21-30

Maybe I missed something! If it starts without the choke, then don't use the choke and be VERY grateful!

When the weather gets colder, do you think it will still start without the choke? If it does, what more could you ask for?

Are we trying to create a problem by forcing the use of the choke? Adjust your idle with the black knob on the left side beneath the seat, after the bike is warmed up. Next, go ride it and stop worrying. If there is a real problem, I'm sure it will present itself at a later date.

====

EDIT: I considered your situation and here is some additional info that has been alluded to previously by others (Zartan):

If the prior owner changed the jetting this would allow starting cold with little or no "choke". This would also cause the bike to die with any choke applied while warm. A dyno-jet kit could and would change the jetting. One or two sizes up on the pilot jet almost eliminates the need for the choke.

Do the plugs look black like its running rich? If yes, maybe the choke (enricher) is staying on just a little, not sealing. This would happen if the cable is mis-routed or poor adjustment. This would cause the bike to run slightly rich all the time. The choke cable operates both carbs. (two enrichers). YMMV

HOw do i check the plugs looking black. Well is it odd that with choke it wont start but withought it does. It has been pretty hot. Will see what happens.

kkim · August 10th, 2009, 10:40 PM

Raf,

I take it you bought this bike used... is that correct? As Zartan said early on, it could be already rejetted/shimmed and that's why you don't need to use any choke at startup.

Rafalski · August 11th, 2009, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkim

Raf,

I take it you bought this bike used... is that correct? As Zartan said early on, it could be already rejetted/shimmed and that's why you don't need to use any choke at startup.

Yes but im sure she would have mentioned that when i purchased it. it only had 1500 km.

Question if it was rejetted shimmed just let it warm up a bit and go that should be fine?

kkim · August 11th, 2009, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rafalski

Yes but im sure she would have mentioned that when i purchased it. it only had 1500 km.

Question if it was rejetted shimmed just let it warm up a bit and go that should be fine?

yep, that should be fine as long as the bike doesn't bog or stall when you're starting off from a stop. You may have one of the good bikes that was properly set up from the factory.

you might want to ask the previous owner, if you can, if anything was done to the jetting.

in the end, don't worry about it as long as you can get the bike started, warmed up and it runs great after being warmed.

August 2nd, 2009, 10:23 PM	#1
Rafalski ninjette.org member Name: Raf Location: Mississauga Join Date: Jul 2009 Motorcycle(s): Ninja 250R 08 Posts: 59	Cant start with choke or stalls So i cant start the bike with the choke on. and when i open the choke while warmin it up, the revs start dropping the lower the choke i move toward myself. Which is a little odd. 08 ninja btw.

August 3rd, 2009, 12:06 AM	#8
zartan ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: zartan Location: spam la Join Date: Oct 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 250 R Posts: A lot.	has it been rejetted or shimmed? I rarely ever use the choke I have both rejet and shimms Mine just warms up on its own with a couple blips of the throttle. __________________________________________________ "Don't let adverse facts stand in the way of a good decision" Colin Powell

August 3rd, 2009, 10:32 AM	#15
Alex ninjette.org dude Name: 1 guess :-) Location: SF Bay Area Join Date: Jun 2008 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 7	Rather than open/closed, let's use on/off. You want the choke off when you're riding normall, but you want the choke on to start it, in most cases. So you sit on the bike, pull the lever all the way closest to you. Start the bike and the revs are probably up in the 3k - 4k range. Back out the driveway, start riding as normal, and after 30 - 60 seconds you can push the lever all the way back forward to turn the choke off and you're good to go. __________________________________________________ Montgomery Street Motorcycle Club / cal24.com / crf250l.org / ninjette.org ninjette.org Terms of Service Shopping for motorcycle parts or equipment? Come here first. The friendliest Ninja 250R/300/400 forum on the internet! (especially Unregistered)

August 4th, 2009, 11:03 PM	#27
Alex ninjette.org dude Name: 1 guess :-) Location: SF Bay Area Join Date: Jun 2008 Motorcycle(s): '13 Ninja 300 (white, the fastest color!), '13 R1200RT, '14 CRF250L, '12 TT-R125LE Posts: Too much. Blog Entries: 7	Something isn't right with the bike. The closer you pull that lever to you, the higher the revs should go. The farther you push that lever away, the lower the revs will go. If the engine is completely cold, some of them will not start without the choke, and will not hold enough revs to stay running with the choke pushed all the way away from you. It does sound like your bike is behaving in the exact opposite manner. I guess there's a chance that the choke cable is somehow mounted incorrectly and is manipulating the choke opposite to how we'd expect, but that sounds like quite a longshot. __________________________________________________ Montgomery Street Motorcycle Club / cal24.com / crf250l.org / ninjette.org ninjette.org Terms of Service Shopping for motorcycle parts or equipment? Come here first. The friendliest Ninja 250R/300/400 forum on the internet! (especially Unregistered)

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August 2nd, 2009, 10:25 PM	#2
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	are you turning the throttle when you have the choke on when you are trying to start it? does the bike start w/o the choke?

August 2nd, 2009, 10:57 PM	#4
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	how long are you letting it warm up before you move the lever toward you?

August 2nd, 2009, 11:39 PM	#6
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	yes, start the bike with the choke on and let it rev about 2-2.5K. Keep moving the lever towards the off position in increments, but keep the revs in that range. As the bike warms up w/ the choke on, the revs will want to climb, so readjust the choke lever when it does that. After a few minutes (depending on the bike) you will be able to turn off the choke completely and the bike should be able to idle with the choke completely off.

August 3rd, 2009, 12:17 AM	#9
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	check your choke cable slack adjustment. it's outlined in the owner's manual. has it always done this or is the bike new to you?

August 3rd, 2009, 02:30 PM	#16
TrueFaith ninjette.org sage Name: Wayne Location: Brookfield, MA Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2011 Honda CBR250R Posts: 585	Yeah, don't get hung up on "open" or "closed". Towards you to start, away from you to run normally. Or if you're looking at the choke from the very end of the bar it's on it's right to start, left to run.

August 3rd, 2009, 07:17 PM	#18
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/What_is..._at_startup%3F

August 3rd, 2009, 11:45 PM	#20
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	if it does that, something's wrong with your choke. (obviously) has it always done this? new to you bike? just started doing this?? ... more info is needed.

August 4th, 2009, 10:41 AM	#21
elars ninjette.org member Name: Eric Location: Bellevue [ WA ] Join Date: Jun 2009 Motorcycle(s): None Posts: 45	When I was young and cars still had chokes (okay I was like 5, haha) I always thought the choke symbol was an N for neutral, and got really confused by the turtle and rabbit. I thought it was like, go slow and go fast mode They should put the turtle and rabbit back on there. Nostalgia. :P

August 4th, 2009, 02:58 PM	#23
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	well, if I do as suggested by another forum member here, I shouldn't even bother posting that.... I should just not respond to repeated questions that make me sigh.

August 4th, 2009, 03:59 PM	#25
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	lol... on other forums I've been on, when it gets to that state, I tell them to search.

August 4th, 2009, 11:12 PM	#28
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	try this... pull choke towards you all the way, then hit start button w/o touching throttle. bike will stumble to life and rev to about 3-4000. adjust the idle so it idles at 2500. rev the throttle a bit and the bike will rev higher... keep adjusting the choke so the bike stays at 2500. after a few minutes, you'll be able to turn the choke completely off then the bike should idle at your preset idle. I set mine to 1500 after the engine is completely warmed. are you the original owner?

August 10th, 2009, 10:40 PM	#33
kkim Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: Too much.	Raf, I take it you bought this bike used... is that correct? As Zartan said early on, it could be already rejetted/shimmed and that's why you don't need to use any choke at startup.