DIY EFI KIT for our 250r

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by iNinja

i recently installed the conversion and didn't have a single problem with him. matt was very helpful through the whole process with anything i needed. my kit is a v2.0 and the bike runs awesome. i wouldn't go back to carb. i had the v1.0 on the bike for about 2 weeks and the v2.0 is a definite improvement.

I didn't have anything but trouble. And Matt refuses to make good on sending me the gen3 throttle body that you and everyone else has. Others have also complained about his business ethic. If you're happy, that's great, but wait until you need replacement parts.

Originally Posted by lgk

the thermobob is proven, it uses the same theory of operation as cages.
so it cant be questioned whether it works or not. it does.

I'm curious, but how does a thermobob work? Why can't you just put in a higher temp thermostat if you don't like how hot it runs?

BTW, I never use the choke to start. I found that having to use it means the valves are too tight. I'm using OEM carbs.

[iNinja]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

I didn't have anything but trouble. And Matt refuses to make good on sending me the gen3 throttle body that you and everyone else has. Others have also complained about his business ethic. If you're happy, that's great, but wait until you need replacement parts.

i've already had to get a second fuel pump because i accidentally broke off one of the inlets on my other one. the replacement was shipped immediately the next day.

[Super-Tune]

I have 3 defective ECU's to send Matt plus 1 I am still waiting to be replaced. We will see if I get the same 1 year warranty service.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by iNinja

i've already had to get a second fuel pump because i accidentally broke off one of the inlets on my other one. the replacement was shipped immediately the next day.

Did he require you to return the bad one or the gen2 throttle body to get the new ones?

He does pick favorites. I can't even get him to even send me the latest firmware to the ECU. So basically, I have a pile of parts sitting in a box and can't use most of them. I plan to install a custom system like greg737 did using a microsquirt controller.

[lgk]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

I didn't have anything but trouble. And Matt refuses to make good on sending me the gen3 throttle body that you and everyone else has. Others have also complained about his business ethic. If you're happy, that's great, but wait until you need replacement parts.



I'm curious, but how does a thermobob work? Why can't you just put in a higher temp thermostat if you don't like how hot it runs?

BTW, I never use the choke to start. I found that having to use it means the valves are too tight. I'm using OEM carbs.

the higher thermostat still does not bypass the radiator.
as your riding, the thermostat will leak coolant into the radiator even when the thermostat is closed. this closed loop system will cool off the engine too quickly since fluid is always flowing in and out of the radiator.

the thermobob does a much better job isolating the radiator.
the coolant circulates between the engine, thermobob, and bypass until the thermostat opens. then the cool fluid in the radiator moves past the bypass and blends with hot fluid in the engine. when the thermostat closes the radiator has time to cool the fluid, and the bypass recirculates coolant.

a higher thermostat has much more control, when used in the thermobob.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by lgk

the higher thermostat still does not bypass the radiator.
as your riding, the thermostat will leak coolant into the radiator even when the thermostat is closed. this closed loop system will cool off the engine too quickly since fluid is always flowing in and out of the radiator.

the thermobob does a much better job isolating the radiator.
the coolant circulates between the engine, thermobob, and bypass until the thermostat opens. then the cool fluid in the radiator moves past the bypass and blends with hot fluid in the engine. when the thermostat closes the radiator has time to cool the fluid, and the bypass recirculates coolant.

a higher thermostat has much more control, when used in the thermobob.

I have noticed that on a cold day, the Ninja does have a hard time getting warmer. While I don't usually need to choke it, I have had it stall out on me when its really cold and I get to a stop sign half a mile away. If I lived in a colder climate, I would definitely be getting one.

Does it totally replace the thermostat unit or just sit in front of it?

[lgk]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

I have noticed that on a cold day, the Ninja does have a hard time getting warmer. While I don't usually need to choke it, I have had it stall out on me when its really cold and I get to a stop sign half a mile away. If I lived in a colder climate, I would definitely be getting one.

Does it totally replace the thermostat unit or just sit in front of it?

it was meant to replace the thermostat unit but since the new gen has sensor on the stock housing i kept it and moved the thermobob in front.
this way the sensor still gets accurate readings.

the old thermostat housing has a cut thermostat without the core inside. it is basically used as a gasket only. then i created a jumper wire and used the same point as a ground.

i was going to relocate the sensor and eliminate the old housing but decided not to since i did not have a tap in that size.

[greg737]

You can go to Bill's website: http://www.shop.watt-man.com/

He originally developed the Thermobob to deal with other under-designed Kawasaki cooling systems: the KLR650, KLR600, KLR250 and the KLX250. Later he added kits for the Versys and the EX-250.

His website has lots of information and analysis so you can see a comparison of operating characteristics before-and-after Thermobob installation.

[setasai]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Each generation is based on the ideas submitted by previous customers.

Sounds like great customer service to me. I hate it when companies ignore their customers and leave crappy designs crappy.


In anycase, blah blah blah I get it, you're not happy and neither is super-tune. You two sure do have a lot of time to harp on ecotrons. I suggest you two go out and ride more instead. Better for your own stress levels.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by setasai

Sounds like great customer service to me. I hate it when companies ignore their customers and leave crappy designs crappy.


In anycase, blah blah blah I get it, you're not happy and neither is super-tune. You two sure do have a lot of time to harp on ecotrons. I suggest you two go out and ride more instead. Better for your own stress levels.

Its obvious that he never installed the kit on a Ninja 250 before or else he would have known about all the problems and fixed them before he sent the kits to us. He lied to us saying that it WAS a kit when in fact it was a prototype for a kit. That isn't good customer service.

When I agreed to join the group buy, he assured me that it would meet my requirements - that the bike be at least as reliable as the carbed bike. Soon after other people cobbled their bikes to get the kit going, they started getting left on the side of the road. That's not equal in reliability to the carbs.

I paid for a working EFI kit. I got a box of junk instead. Matt at ecotrons refuses to make good on it. How is that customer service?

Matt could have done the right thing and sent me a good throttle body and firmware, but he chose to make me an enemy instead of a grateful customer. As one of his screwed customers, I can promise that I will never tire of warning people about ecotrons.

[Scattcatt]

For the record, I like the Ecotrons kit. Is it without problems? No. However you risk that buying ANYTHING not approved by Kawasaki. One may argue, "Yeah but my slip on isn't Kawasaki approved but it works fine!" Well maybe because it's a slip on! An EFI kit is far more complex than a slip on exhaust thus making it much more prone to the occasional problem.

The thing is, if you do run into a problem, shoot Matt an email! It's as simple as that! He may request that you run some tests to confirm exactly what's going on as the problem may actually lie in the installation rather than a defect entirely. If it turns out to be a legitimate problem, then he'll be more than happy to offer you a replacement! Just don't go cutting and welding all over your current kit to try and force it to work.

Did I personally have problems with the Version 1 kit? Sure, the fitting on cylinder 2 popped off occasionally, but my problems were due to the fact that a lot of the stuff inside of my bike isn't OEM as it is! I purchased the bike used and it had already been modified. Had my bike been completely stock then I'd be willing to bet that the first version would have gone even smoother. Also keep in mind that I never even installed the oxygen sensors so the popping may very well have been my fault from pushing the limits of the desired lambda table too far for the engine to handle.

I understand that you two are angry, I just don't fully understand why. Especially why when so many other of us customers who bought the same exact kit feel the complete opposite way and are happy with what we have purchased.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by Scattcatt

I understand that you two are angry, I just don't fully understand why. Especially why when so many other of us customers who bought the same exact kit feel the complete opposite way and are happy with what we have purchased.

Why? I'm angry because Matt knew my main obstacle with installing with the kit was the throttle body. At the start, he gave me his blessing to install the gen2 throttle body right side up. Both myself and Setasai opted for that method. Again, this was with Matt's blessing and way back then he did send me a copy of the right side up firmware that was needed for the install.

Both myself and setasai made minor modifications to the gen2 throttle body so that it could work right side up. This was a cable bracket and also in my case, a new pulley of the correct diameter. Adding a cable bracket and pulley aren't things that are out of the ordinary or unexpected. Matt knew that I was going to add these things and said nothing.

After several months, Matt produced a new throttle body with many of my ideas already incorporated. Then he deliberately EXCLUDED me from getting a new one. Matt claims that because I modified my throttle body in an attempt to make it work, that violated my warranty. So while setasai modified his throttle body and got sent a new one, I did not. Even though we all paid the same for our kits, I was excluded. The only one in the group buy in fact.

So yes, I'm mad at ecotrons for pulling that kind of sh!t on a customer. And from here on out, I'm going to make sure everyone knows how his "customer service" works.

[setasai]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

Both myself and setasai made minor modifications to the gen2 throttle body so that it could work right side up.

So while setasai modified his throttle body and got sent a new one, I did not.

So yes, I'm mad at ecotrons for pulling that kind of sh!t on a customer. And from here on out, I'm going to make sure everyone knows how his "customer service" works.

1) You keep forgetting that I asked him specifically if this would void my warranty. He agreed that it would be okay as long as I kept him informed of the changes and how it affected the throttle body.

2) Another thing that goes a long way... ATTITUDE! You keep saying he burned you, you arent helping AT ALL either. Seriously!

3) His customer service is great. You're an unreasonable customer. You do that to any other company and they'll burn you real fast too.

Finally, blah blah blah I've heard it all. End result. You keep wasting your time flaming Ecotrons and the rest of us will go ahead and enjoy the constant updates and fantastic modification to our bikes.

In all honesty, it's your time but I seriously suggest you use it for something more fulfilling. It's not like any of this is going to make your hobby/life any better. Btw, this is seriously off topic. Quit turning every EFI thread into an Ecotrons complaint thread.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by setasai

1) You keep forgetting that I asked him specifically if this would void my warranty. He agreed that it would be okay as long as I kept him informed of the changes and how it affected the throttle body.

2) Another thing that goes a long way... ATTITUDE! You keep saying he burned you, you arent helping AT ALL either. Seriously!

3) His customer service is great. You're an unreasonable customer. You do that to any other company and they'll burn you real fast too.

Finally, blah blah blah I've heard it all. End result. You keep wasting your time flaming Ecotrons and the rest of us will go ahead and enjoy the constant updates and fantastic modification to our bikes.

In all honesty, it's your time but I seriously suggest you use it for something more fulfilling. It's not like any of this is going to make your hobby/life any better. Btw, this is seriously off topic. Quit turning every EFI thread into an Ecotrons complaint thread.

Ok, I get it. You paid for a working EFI system and eventually got a working EFI system and you're a happy customer. I get it.

But you still seem to forget that I paid for the same exact thing on the same exact group buy. I should get the SAME EXACT THING everyone else did. You are calling me an unreasonable customer knowing that I didn't get what I paid for. Isn't that called hypocrisy?

Matt knew I was going to mount right side up and add a cable bracket. He gave his blessing when he sent the right side up firmware early on. In addition, there was no written warranty at the time.

As far as wasting my time, I've already wasted hundreds of hours trying to get the EFI kit to work safely. If I can spend a little extra time to help others avoid the nightmare of dealing with ecotrons, then its worth it. I only wish super-tune had posted here sooner. He would have saved me a lot of money and grief.

[Somchai]

@setasai, don't you know the word 'The customer is King'?
Matt, I think forgot about this and after all my help plus informations for him and asking him to buy the ALM his offer was 20% discount - sorry, but I can get the same for less money and without discount.

We should always remember, that only in problems it shows if a business is a good business.

@n4mwd - I'll keep my eyes opened to find an oem-tb in germany or thailand for an acceptable price.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by Somchai

@n4mwd - I'll keep my eyes opened to find an oem-tb in germany or thailand for an acceptable price.

Thanks, I appreciate that. I looked a while back and there was a number of them, but they all said they wouldn't ship to the US. Even the overpriced ones. If you find one, please PM me.

[iNinja]

Originally Posted by setasai

1) You keep forgetting that I asked him specifically if this would void my warranty. He agreed that it would be okay as long as I kept him informed of the changes and how it affected the throttle body.

2) Another thing that goes a long way... ATTITUDE! You keep saying he burned you, you arent helping AT ALL either. Seriously!

3) His customer service is great. You're an unreasonable customer. You do that to any other company and they'll burn you real fast too.

Finally, blah blah blah I've heard it all. End result. You keep wasting your time flaming Ecotrons and the rest of us will go ahead and enjoy the constant updates and fantastic modification to our bikes.

In all honesty, it's your time but I seriously suggest you use it for something more fulfilling. It's not like any of this is going to make your hobby/life any better. Btw, this is seriously off topic. Quit turning every EFI thread into an Ecotrons complaint thread.

well said.

proud ecotrons customer here! great kit! great customer service! i love my fuel injection!

[lgk]

Originally Posted by Somchai

@setasai, don't you know the word 'The customer is King'?
Matt, I think forgot about this and after all my help plus informations for him and asking him to buy the ALM his offer was 20% discount - sorry, but I can get the same for less money and without discount.

We should always remember, that only in problems it shows if a business is a good business.

@n4mwd - I'll keep my eyes opened to find an oem-tb in germany or thailand for an acceptable price.

Sometimes customers are unsaveable...
Thats when the refund should be issued.

If they don't accept it then not much to do....

[flynjay]

Originally Posted by iNinja

well said.

proud ecotrons customer here! great kit! great customer service! i love my fuel injection!

+1

I have 3500 miles on my kit. The new throttle body is working fantastic.

[n4mwd]

No one ever offered a full refund for my kit. That is a myth. After I spent several hundred dollars trying to get it to work, he offered to take it back for about $300. No thanks. Would you send yours back for $300?

Other than to make me an irate customer, what other purpose was there in excluding me when the new throttle bodies came out.

@iNinja: Lets swap throttle bodies. I'll take your gen3 and you can have my gen2. Then lets see how happy of a customer you are.

Bottom line is that Matt at ecotrons does not know how to run a business. If he did, he wouldn't go out of his way to screw them.

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by n4mwd

No one ever offered a full refund for my kit. That is a myth. After I spent several hundred dollars trying to get it to work, he offered to take it back for about $300. No thanks. Would you send yours back for $300?

Other than to make me an irate customer, what other purpose was there in excluding me when the new throttle bodies came out.

@iNinja: Lets swap throttle bodies. I'll take your gen3 and you can have my gen2. Then lets see how happy of a customer you are.

Bottom line is that Matt at ecotrons does not know how to run a business. If he did, he wouldn't go out of his way to screw them.

Im a happy customer too. I love my efi system .

And seriously i ran the old TBs from the group buy for over 4k miles with no issues. And your the only one with the issues bc you refused to install the kit as it was intended to be. Saying that you spent hundreds of dollars means nothing. You should have just taken the refund and moved on. Or use that "hundreds of dollars" should have created something to makes yours work to your liking.

[lgk]

You should have returned your kit when you got found it wouldn't work. You could have gotten your all money back then.
What did you do to your TB anyway?

People got it to work even with the original one
Posted via Mobile Device

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by lgk

You should have returned your kit when you got found it wouldn't work. You could have gotten your all money back then.
What did you do to your TB anyway?

People got it to work even with the original one
Posted via Mobile Device

exactly.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by lgk

You should have returned your kit when you got found it wouldn't work. You could have gotten your all money back then.

Ok, I will agree with that one. A combination for my lust for EFI and my false belief that Matt would take care of me blinded me to the fact that I should have returned it the minute I saw the throttle body.

I still want EFI. But what isn't clear is how much, if any, of the kit is usable.

>> What did you do to your TB anyway?

I added a cable bracket and pulley to work right side up with both accel and decel cables.

>> People got it to work even with the original one

And pretty much all of them got stuck on the side of the road too. How many of those people refused to install the gen3 throttle body? I mean, if its really working all that well, why do the extra work of installing a new part that isn't needed?

That was a rhetorical question. They installed the new TB because the old one was a POS and everyone knows it.

[Somchai]

Some day and with the help from YOU ALL Matt will get HIS system working...

What I don't understand is, when one is in problems everybody that everybody feels in need to go against him?
You all are in probs because of Matt's system, because from what i read no ones is running quite well (http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=103688) and even when i don't want to talk bad about it (since i didn't see it in nature) one thing only let me tell you, i.e. a fi-system with two air screws (idle) is middle-age, that's what we had 100 years ago and what for does he need two o2-sensors (maybe because he is better then the big manufacturer?)?
Just only stop the talk against the one, get your system running and then enjoy it.

[EMSRacer07]

Originally Posted by Somchai

Some day and with the help from YOU ALL Matt will get HIS system working...

What I don't understand is, when one is in problems everybody that everybody feels in need to go against him?
You all are in probs because of Matt's system, because from what i read no ones is running quite well (http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=103688) and even when i don't want to talk bad about it (since i didn't see it in nature) one thing only let me tell you, i.e. a fi-system with two air screws (idle) is middle-age, that's what we had 100 years ago and what for does he need two o2-sensors (maybe because he is better then the big manufacturer?)?
Just only stop the talk against the one, get your system running and then enjoy it.

The link you posted is guys that just got their system and chone just put his in the other day. There are guys on here, like me, that have had it running for months now.

And its a bit confusing what your trying to say in the first sentence. You got to remember something Matt whole busniess was to make a working EFI kit that would be of quality, cheap to make, and cheap to sell. Its an economic system that is produced to keep cost low. 600 bucks is really cheap for a complete efi kit. Most kits on the market for other bikes, cars, etc are over 2,000.

And if your refering why we all gang up agaist nw4wd is bc he was helping member in the begining. Had alot of good ideas and did do custom work to his TB so it would be to his liking, which wasnt needed for the first TB. I got mine going with minimum work. So did others. And n4wnd was with us too but still hadnt gotten his running bc he wanted a fuel rail for his TB. Which didnt work and bc of this got him a bad attitude and started slandering Ecotrons. And not just once but over and over again. Then even after that matt offered a refund and he refused and continued to slander and he expected a new TB from ecotrons after such things. Maybe if he was a bit more positive alot of us here would be more willing to work with him.

[EMSRacer07]

plus this isnt a thread for Ecotrons or Matt or n4wnd so stop trolling. There is already a thread concerning the vender Ecotrons and Matt so please leave this out of the DIY thread

[lgk]

the only problems i had was a tuning issue, and the fuel lines
both were solved pretty quick.

the throttle was not the best quality but it still worked.


n4mwd is obviously well oriented mechanically, he should have gotten it running easily.

that's why i'm confused at him.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by EMSRacer07

And if your refering why we all gang up agaist nw4wd is bc he was helping member in the begining. Had alot of good ideas and did do custom work to his TB so it would be to his liking, which wasnt needed for the first TB. I got mine going with minimum work. So did others. And n4wnd was with us too but still hadnt gotten his running bc he wanted a fuel rail for his TB. Which didnt work and bc of this got him a bad attitude and started slandering Ecotrons. And not just once but over and over again. Then even after that matt offered a refund and he refused and continued to slander and he expected a new TB from ecotrons after such things. Maybe if he was a bit more positive alot of us here would be more willing to work with him.

First off, you can't slander someone on an written forum. Its called libel.

Second, libel and slander both require that the communication be false. What have I said about ecotrons that is false? Nothing.

Third, your false accusation that I have slandered ecotrons is in itself libel.

Forth, your false statement that I was offered a full refund is also libel.

I have simply told everyone about how ecotrons screwed me. Simply put, I paid the same as others in the group buy and I should get the same as others in the group buy. My attitude is irrelevant.

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by Somchai

one thing only let me tell you, i.e. a fi-system with two air screws (idle) is middle-age, that's what we had 100 years ago and what for does he need two o2-sensors (maybe because he is better then the big manufacturer?)?

I was wondering about the air screws myself. I can only assume they are for syncing purposes. However, there is a sync screw between the individual throttle bodies that can be used for sync. So I have no clue really. I doubt they are necessary, but may be required because of the way the ECU works.

I know that the O2 sensors had to be placed close to the exhaust port to take advantage of the heat from the engine. There are apparently heaters in the O2 sensors that come on if they aren't hot enough. These draw power and the Ninja 250 alternator doesn't supply a huge surplus of power. It was calculated that with the EFI system installed, when the Ninja is idling with the headlight on and the brake lights on (such as at a stop light) the alternator doesn't provide enough power and the battery is drained. So basically, the electrical system can't really handle the extra load from O2 sensor heaters for very long which is why its mandatory that they be installed close to the exhaust ports.

As far as why there are two O2 sensors instead of just one, my best guess would be that he wanted to equalize the obstruction in the exhaust pipe between the two cylinders. Unlike a car, the O2 sensor on a Ninja blocks a relatively large percentage of air flow. Other than that, I can't think of a reason because the mix for both cylinders would be the same since they have the same load and same air flow.

[choneofakind]

I wish you wouldn't bring me into this. Expecting any fuel delivery system to be perfect tight off the bat is ridiculous. You can't even expect to rejet your carbs and get it right the first time. That's not fair to bash on matt just because my fuel table isn't perfect immediately upon installing it. I've only had it running for a total of 40 (maybe) miles. It took me longer than that to get my carbs tuned right, and those bad boys are dang close to perfect now. It actually started right up the first time I ever cranked it over, which was quite impressive in its own right. I have very high hopes for this and I can't wait to get it tuned a d see what jt really can do. Right now, I like what I see, but it needs a little work before it is perfect, just as any fuel system (carbs, efi conversion, power commander, etc)would need. Until mine is running right, leave me out of the mud-slinging please.
Posted via Mobile Device

[n4mwd]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

I wish you wouldn't bring me into this. Expecting any fuel delivery system to be perfect tight off the bat is ridiculous. You can't even expect to rejet your carbs and get it right the first time. That's not fair to bash on matt just because my fuel table isn't perfect immediately upon installing it. I've only had it running for a total of 40 (maybe) miles. It took me longer than that to get my carbs tuned right, and those bad boys are dang close to perfect now. It actually started right up the first time I ever cranked it over, which was quite impressive in its own right. I have very high hopes for this and I can't wait to get it tuned a d see what jt really can do. Right now, I like what I see, but it needs a little work before it is perfect, just as any fuel system (carbs, efi conversion, power commander, etc)would need. Until mine is running right, leave me out of the mud-slinging please.
Posted via Mobile Device

Nobody mentioned you. Why do you say this?

BTW, check your engine temp sensor, it could be the source of your problems. Make sure it is properly reflecting the engine warm up.

[choneofakind]

thanks for the tip. I have it on one of the bolts right beneath the intake. I'll try cliping it physically to the head to see if that helps get a more true temp reading


A thread that I've posted in asking questions was brought up as proof that none of the efi bikes are running right. I just wanted to make sure it had been said that using me as an example was not fair because I haven't had tuning time yet
Posted via Mobile Device

[n4mwd]

I think you are talking about the water jacket inlet bolts. That should be just fine. Just be careful not to break the gasket seal. Its possible that the procal software might tell you if the sensor is working or not. Either way, you should be able to use it to spot sensor data that looks funny.

[Racer x]

The heater on an o2 sensor heats the sensor on start up so the engine mixture can be more accurately read sooner. The position has to do with getting the best reading . Close to the exhaust port it best.
If you are restricting the exhaust with the sensor then the sensor is in to deep.

[iNinja]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

thanks for the tip. I have it on one of the bolts right beneath the intake. I'll try cliping it physically to the head to see if that helps get a more true temp reading

this is where i have mine via this thread (http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=74579). seems to be working just fine for me.

[Super-Tune]

As long as you send Matt money and don't complain about his product you won't have issues with his support. As soon as you confront him with issues and defects, you will see what his support is really like.

I am sending back 4 defective ECU's and 2 with software mismatch. They are all under warranty until August of this year.

I will post all replies although I do not expect any because he has stopped supporting me even though he is under a legal contract. I am mailing them certified mail so I know he personally picks them up from his UPS store mail box.

I may start my own thread if necessary.

Stay tuned

[choneofakind]

Pre-2008 bikes can't use that bolt because it doesn't exist
Posted via Mobile Device

[justinswidebody]

I'm liking the ecotrons kit more and more. It is evolving to be a great kit. The way I see it is a lot of stand alone fuel management systems are difficult. I would have spent a lot more money going another route. Matt just made going this route a lot cheaper. Defective units happen. I have bought stand alones such as aem, and accel dfi for cars I have built and they be defective. When it comes down to it I spent well over 1,000 dollars on those systems. For the price of this kit, with what little issues it comes with is amazing to me. And it was really simple to install. I can't complain. Thanks matt for the opportunity to have fuel injection on my ninja.

[ninja_thresh_hold]

new group buy with new throttle body http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=108681