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Old July 26th, 2017, 02:15 PM   #41
Triple Jim
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Some particular tires are more prone to that than others, and will wobble if you try to ride hands-off. Generally, taking your hands off the bar is not a good idea. The Pirelli Sport Demon front tire I had on my Guzzi would wobble once it got about half worn out, coasting down from about 40, if I took my hands off the bar. It never did it unless I did that though. The Bridgestone BT45s I have on it now don't wobble under any circumstances.

If you have the head bearings adjusted for zero play, and your swing arm bushings are also play-free, and your wheel bearings are in good shape, you may be experiencing an anomaly of the tire(s).
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Old July 26th, 2017, 02:32 PM   #42
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It would be interesting to toss on a different front wheel/tire and see if it does the same thing.
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Old July 26th, 2017, 02:42 PM   #43
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The front tire was replaced a year ago and has less than a 1k miles on it. Its cheaper to replace the bearings than it is to buy new tires. If after replacing the bearings it still wobbles then I will replace the tires.
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Old July 26th, 2017, 02:45 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redsvt View Post
Well, I throw in the towel. At this juncture I might as well by the All Bearings tapered kit. I cranked the steering stem nut tight, backed it off. Went for a ride....NO wobble. Great I thought. Turned around in the street got up to 50mph, let off the gas took my hands of the bars, there it was, WOBBLE WOBBLE.....Dunzo at this point. If the steering bearings are not F%$#%up there probably are now. I had that thing down tight, and still wobbled.
Have you changed or replaced your front tire recently? I ask because I did and I'm embarrassed to say the bead didn't fully seat 360 degrees around the rim. 60lbs. of air pressure and POP the bead sealed. I had a very slight but annoying vibration in my front wheel until I fixed it. I'm going to do a-little hands-off riding tonight and see if I get any head shake.

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Old July 26th, 2017, 03:09 PM   #45
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If it does a small hands-off wobble after you put in the new steering bearings, my recommendation would be to ride, enjoy the bike, and keep your hands on the bar.
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Old July 26th, 2017, 03:12 PM   #46
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The front tire is a new one. I replaced as it wobbled on the previous tire. It wobbled with the new tire. So I removed the tire, reinstalled, beads correctly seated, and re balanced.
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Old July 26th, 2017, 03:13 PM   #47
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If it does a small hands-off wobble after you put in the new steering bearings, my recommendation would be to ride, enjoy the bike, and keep your hands on the bar.
Exactly where I am at. Bearings on order.
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Old July 26th, 2017, 03:53 PM   #48
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The front tire is a new one. I replaced as it wobbled on the previous tire. It wobbled with the new tire. So I removed the tire, reinstalled, beads correctly seated, and re balanced.
Wow. Hello All Balls.

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Old July 26th, 2017, 03:59 PM   #49
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Quote:
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If it does a small hands-off wobble after you put in the new steering bearings, my recommendation would be to ride, enjoy the bike, and keep your hands on the bar.
But it takes 2 hands to wave at all your fans!


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Exactly where I am at. Bearings on order.
If the bearings were bad before you tightened them up, I would expect a freshly torqued stem nut to only last a short while before it's loose again. But adjusting head nut torque is easy and free so why not try. If the bearings are boogered up the only solution is to get them out.
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Old July 26th, 2017, 04:12 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redsvt View Post
The front tire was replaced a year ago and has less than a 1k miles on it. Its cheaper to replace the bearings than it is to buy new tires. If after replacing the bearings it still wobbles then I will replace the tires.
I guess at this point I was suggesting putting any old (but correct) wheel/tire on it to see if there is any change.

I don't blame you for not wanting to get a new tire. Changing the front wheel/tire temporarily would either give you an answer or eliminate it altogether. Of course you would need to find a donor wheel to borrow.

The tire may not be the issue at all. Or it could be.
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Old July 26th, 2017, 05:24 PM   #51
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I just replaced the front end on my EX500, while I was in the neighborhood I took the time to install the tapered bearing kit from ALL BALLS RACING, as it's a 1991 with the OEM still in there, no other reason for that they are old, and I might as well.

The hardest part was installing the new races, which BTW wasn't hard, just have to take your time. I installed the triple tree, and adjusted the stem nut by feel, no need for torque wrench here.

It's nice and smooth now, and feels solid, the old ones were still good, but getting wore, old, etc.. And I needed to service them anyway, so might as well just upgrade.

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Old July 26th, 2017, 05:35 PM   #52
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All-Balls provides excellent service, by the way. I got a kit for my DT100 and didn't get around to installing it for a year or so. When I did, I found that one of the bearings was the wrong one and way off in size. I contacted the company by email and gave them the part numbers of all the bearings and seals in my kit, and they immediately sent me a correct replacement bearing, not asking for the old one back. I think I had the new one two days after I sent the email.
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Old July 31st, 2017, 03:46 AM   #53
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Well, I throw in the towel. At this juncture I might as well by the All Bearings tapered kit. I cranked the steering stem nut tight, backed it off. Went for a ride....NO wobble. Great I thought. Turned around in the street got up to 50mph, let off the gas took my hands of the bars, there it was, WOBBLE WOBBLE.....Dunzo at this point. If the steering bearings are not F%$#%up there probably are now. I had that thing down tight, and still wobbled.
I never do this but for the sake of this thread I decelerated from 70 M.P.H. to stop with my hands off the bars and between 35 and 40 M.P.H. I got a little headshake (wobble) and nowhere else in the speed range. What am I going to do about it? Nothing, I never ride with my hands off the bars and don't notice it when I don't.

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Old July 31st, 2017, 09:52 AM   #54
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Well.... too-tight of headset bearings would cause wobbling too. There's a lot of self-correcting motion from the rake-angle/caster orientation. If bearings were too tight, the self-correcting can't occur and you'd get wobbling as well. You want it tight enough for no vertical movement, yet loose enough for smooth pivot action. Not easy to find that exact balance.
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Old July 31st, 2017, 09:55 AM   #55
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Well.... too-tight of headset bearings would cause wobbling too. There's a lot of self-correcting motion from the rake-angle/caster orientation. If bearings were too tight, the self-correcting can't occur and you'd get wobbling as well. You want it tight enough for no vertical movement, yet loose enough for smooth pivot action. Not easy to find that exact balance.
Thanks Jac I'll keep an eye on it (hand on it?)

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Old July 31st, 2017, 11:23 AM   #56
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Saw this video posted on another forum where someone was trying to diagnose a similar problem (he wasn't the guy in the video).

Link to original page on YouTube.

I actually saw a Harley on the Interstate one day doing a similar wobble. It had apes on it, and you could see it oscillating the entire time. Got better under power and worse when decelerating. Didn't seem to phase the rider, who was wearing just a T-shirt and jeans - as per WI Harley Law (proper attire unless you are some kind of pussy or something...)

I bet this guy wished he was one...

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Old July 31st, 2017, 11:28 AM   #57
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mother of god.... that looked soooooooooo painful.
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Old July 31st, 2017, 11:38 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by jkv45 View Post
saw this video posted on another forum where someone was trying to diagnose a similar problem (he wasn't the guy in the video).

Link to original page on YouTube.

i actually saw a harley on the interstate one day doing a similar wobble. It had apes on it, and you could see it oscillating the entire time. Got better under power and worse when decelerating. Didn't seem to phase the rider, who was wearing just a t-shirt and jeans - as per wi harley law (proper attire unless you are some kind of pussy or something...)

i bet this guy wished he was one...

from what i hear there is a law suit against harley for that and several other incidents like that one "a known problem they will not fix".
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Old July 31st, 2017, 12:32 PM   #59
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mother of god.... that looked soooooooooo painful.
Really. He was kinda stuck under the bike at one point. Surprising how it spun around on the peg like it did.

As we all know, that''s why you wear all the gear! When the s*** hits the fan you will want it.
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Old July 31st, 2017, 05:25 PM   #60
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Ouch.

What does a person do when you get a wobble like that? Is that something that slowing down will help? Looks like the guy in the video tried to correct by steering or something.
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Old July 31st, 2017, 06:46 PM   #61
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Ouch.

What does a person do when you get a wobble like that? Is that something that slowing down will help? Looks like the guy in the video tried to correct by steering or something.
I got into a situation that I was the cause of. I was riding my Kaw 500 triple and experienced severe head shake about to go full tank slapper. I slowed down very quickly and got back in control. It's a very unnerving experience. The cause, low air pressure in my front tire. Lesson? Check your tire pressure regularly.

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Old July 31st, 2017, 07:09 PM   #62
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Ouch.

What does a person do when you get a wobble like that? Is that something that slowing down will help? Looks like the guy in the video tried to correct by steering or something.
A lot of people say that giving more throttle will help. The concept is that more throttle will shift weight to the rear, and cause the front to track back on its own. Again, how capable you are of doing that, while the handlebars are ripped from your hands, is the issue.

I had it happen to me one time so hard that the handlebar left my hand and then slammed back into it so hard my wrist was injured. Not sure how I didnt crash but it just sorted itself somehow.
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Old July 31st, 2017, 09:24 PM   #63
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A lot of people say that giving more throttle will help. The concept is that more throttle will shift weight to the rear, and cause the front to track back on its own. Again, how capable you are of doing that, while the handlebars are ripped from your hands, is the issue.

I had it happen to me one time so hard that the handlebar left my hand and then slammed back into it so hard my wrist was injured. Not sure how I didnt crash but it just sorted itself somehow.
You went through a situation that was far worse than mine. Do you think additional speed would have helped? I'm certain, 40 years after my experience, additional speed would have turned a difficult situation into a tragedy.

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Old July 31st, 2017, 10:19 PM   #64
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Rear brake only...
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Old August 1st, 2017, 12:00 AM   #65
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Rear brake only...
I think that's good advice Jac. I'm pretty diligent about checking my tire pressures today.

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Old August 1st, 2017, 12:04 AM   #66
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Quote:
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A lot of people say that giving more throttle will help. The concept is that more throttle will shift weight to the rear, and cause the front to track back on its own. Again, how capable you are of doing that, while the handlebars are ripped from your hands, is the issue.

I had it happen to me one time so hard that the handlebar left my hand and then slammed back into it so hard my wrist was injured. Not sure how I didnt crash but it just sorted itself somehow.
That sounds freaky. I'm not sure what I think about that.

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Rear brake only...
That has possibilities!
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Old August 1st, 2017, 04:35 AM   #67
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I have no idea what would help, it all happened so fast after I hit a massive pothole. The tire hopped from side to side, and the handlebars shot out of my hands. Then it just righted itself, I honestly didnt think I was going to stay on. I assume it was the electronic steering damper, which was on the CBR600RR I used to own. I cant test the throttle theory since I barely had time to think.
But yes, proper pressure, and a steering damper is also said to help out.
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Old August 1st, 2017, 05:01 AM   #68
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Just a thought on the wobble - it could be a geometry matter. A taller rear tire or shorter front tire would reduce trail and make the front more prone to shaking. Same with the rear preload being set stiffer or a few other things.
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Old August 1st, 2017, 06:11 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliGrrl View Post
Ouch.

What does a person do when you get a wobble like that? Is that something that slowing down will help? Looks like the guy in the video tried to correct by steering or something.
The oscillations do tend to get worse during decel from what I've seen. Same in Land Speed Racing. Things usually go bad when slowing. More weight is on the front and it increases any instability.

Slowing is the normal reaction, but at least not chopping the throttle completely might be the best way to scrub off speed without making it worse.

Probably stay off the front brake as well.
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Old August 1st, 2017, 10:01 AM   #70
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Slow down gently, got it.
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Old August 1st, 2017, 10:27 AM   #71
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when i get violent tank slappers i just losen up my shoulders and take the vibes, the tire generally works itself back out, fighting the wheel is where you, we, I would get into trouble. Centrifugal force or the gryoscopic affect of the front tire will usually straiten it out. slowing down doesnt help it just lets the tire flop side to side. if the tire looses rotational speed its more likely to worsen. I disagree with slowing down unless its a tractional shake if its a violent steering wobble goose it provided your rear is still on the floor.
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Old August 1st, 2017, 10:32 AM   #72
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also, a bent swing arm will cause a wobble has this bike been taken to slammy town ever? got stands? put it on stands if it sits crooked the arm might be bent throws your trail our of spec.
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Old August 2nd, 2017, 10:19 AM   #73
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I never do this but for the sake of this thread I decelerated from 70 M.P.H. to stop with my hands off the bars and between 35 and 40 M.P.H. I got a little headshake (wobble) and nowhere else in the speed range. What am I going to do about it? Nothing, I never ride with my hands off the bars and don't notice it when I don't.

Bill
I got similar problem with my 2008 ninja 250 (64K miles). The handle bar only wobbles when speed is between 40-55 mph.

Maybe that is normal for all ninja 250
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Old August 2nd, 2017, 11:20 AM   #74
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I wonder if there's way to test or measure frame-twist? Both front & rear tyres can have sides parallel in perfect fore-aft alignment, but if their planes of rotation doesn't line up, this would make the front-end more sensitive to side forces bumping it.
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Old August 2nd, 2017, 01:48 PM   #75
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I wonder if there's way to test or measure frame-twist? Both front & rear tyres can have sides parallel in perfect fore-aft alignment, but if their planes of rotation doesn't line up, this would make the front-end more sensitive to side forces bumping it.
gerry at gp frame and wheel, can tell you if its twisted, and he can untwist it for you.
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Old August 2nd, 2017, 05:52 PM   #76
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If a wobble starts, lie down on the tank immediately and it should stop before it becomes a tank slapper. Seriously. It's even in that old video about wobbles and weaves.
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Old July 21st, 2019, 05:01 PM   #77
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Chasing your tail? CHECK THIS

If you have checked over everything in the front end. ( eg' tyre balance, headset bearing, wheels bearing.) And everything is good, then step away from the front of the bike.

*!!!* The course of your wobbles is going to be in your rear suspension. *CHECK REAR LINKAGE BUSHS*

**NOTE** worn out linkage Bushs may also lead to swing arm bearing damage. Advise you to inspect bearings & give them some lubrication while your at it.
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Old July 21st, 2019, 05:16 PM   #78
csmith12
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