450 Super Mono

Daeldren · October 21st, 2009, 03:29 PM

In case none of you have heard about this yet, there is a lot of interest in this series for entry level racing. The idea is that you take a 450 motocross bike, retain the frame, engine and swingarm while adding (supersport suspension, road wheels/tires, and a full fairing) coming out with a track bike that weighs around 250lbs and has about 50 hp.

Here is the idea I had, if you added all the extra's to make it DOT approved for road use (lights, mirrors, etc..) you could register it as a dirt bike could you not? Plus I bet you could find have the parts from salvaged bikes and save a bundle to build it.

Just an idea

bob706 · October 21st, 2009, 03:40 PM

Wicked looking bike.

HKr1 · October 21st, 2009, 03:45 PM

Looks nice!

I dont think you can register a DB vin for the street

Snake · October 21st, 2009, 03:48 PM

Good looking bike!

Daeldren · October 21st, 2009, 04:06 PM

Im not sure what SC DMV will say, they are pretty lax here though on laws (no DB limit, bike doesn't even need turn signals to be approved)

Syphen · October 21st, 2009, 04:21 PM

Yeah, those 450's sure look nice. Roland Sands did a wicked job making the concepts.

backinthesaddleagain · October 21st, 2009, 04:49 PM

Someone i know built a ktm 450 supermoto type bike and has it registered. Now here in Rhode Island many guys have registered dirt bikes (with full lighting kits).

Greg_E · October 21st, 2009, 05:28 PM

It would be far cheaper to get a decent road bike chassis and put in the engine of choice. The take the offroad frame and add on road suspension means that the rich guys will immediately put on $1000+ rear shocks and $3000 front ends, not exactly what I would consider a budget class.

Daeldren · October 21st, 2009, 05:38 PM

It is still a cool idea though that I wouldn't mind building on a budget down the road.

Really the only way to stay in a budget racing series would be to use production class rules that prohibit expensive suspension and engine mods.

Greg_E · October 21st, 2009, 05:53 PM

It is certainly interesting and brings back the point that I think we need things like a GSXR400.

Apex · October 21st, 2009, 06:45 PM

I'd love to see some inline-4 400's make their way out, on just some sick frames, with the nice brakes, forks, etc.

heck, a 250, set up to run premium fuel (around 40hp), all aluminum frame with all the adjustable goodies, 17" wheels, dual front stoppers...I'd so buy it, even if it did cost 6k. It would be a sick track bike.

Greg_E · October 21st, 2009, 07:14 PM

A 40 horse 250 would be pretty damn cool, especially if it used a nice lightweight aluminum frame so the total weight was light.

LazinCajun · October 21st, 2009, 07:22 PM

Agreed, I'd be on it in a heartbeat, but you'd never see it, at least not in the USA. It would be way too expensive, especially with an aluminum frame

Apex · October 21st, 2009, 07:32 PM

I've even been wanting to go custom on the 250. Get with a shop, use setups seen on the RS125, and use a custom aluminum frame.

If I can find a super cheap 250, I may just go for it. It would take a lot of design, and I'd have to find out if I could even register it. It would be sick though. Maybe then a dinky 250 on aluminum may seem appealing to the big wigs at the big 4.

Since it would be custom, I could design it to accept zx6r plastics too. Hmmmm....

Or find a old aluminum frame on an older zx6r, use the stock brakes, swingarm, etc, and drop the 250 in that. Maybe doing some work to reduce the overall frame size to something more compact. Oh, there is so much to think about.

Daeldren · October 21st, 2009, 07:41 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ducati_Supermono

I'd love to see Ducati remake this and make it somewhat affordable. As much as I do love the I-4 250's and 400's that Duc was just pure awesomeness.

Apex · October 22nd, 2009, 06:22 AM

I honestly have no clue why they discontinued 400's. Those are good sized bikes.

camaroz1985 · October 22nd, 2009, 06:33 AM

I love the idea of a 450 dirt/enduro bike turned street bike. Saw this a while back and had the same thoughts as you.

sharky nrk · October 22nd, 2009, 06:47 AM

can't remember where I read about this, but if I had just a extra cash hanging around it would be an awesome project. however - for the cost you could just buy a used 600 supersport

ScraitT · October 22nd, 2009, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharky nrk

can't remember where I read about this, but if I had just a extra cash hanging around it would be an awesome project. however - for the cost you could just buy a used 600 supersport

For the price of a new 250r you can buy a used 600 as well, especially with how much bikes have been creeping up year by year.
I think a 400 would be a cool little bike. Not sure if I would get one (may have over the 250, but since i have the 250 already now), but still would be a nice small bike.

Greg_E · October 22nd, 2009, 09:00 AM

I'm sure it has something to do with emissions and I bet the 400cc road bike would need the same level as the 600+ bikes which would drive the price far too high. This is probably why we don't see 400 class machines, I bet the price difference between the 400 and the 600 is almost nothing, especially if you put in decent suspension.

But I still think a Ninja 400 or GSXR400 would be great and provide a good bridge between beginner and experienced riders. Keep it to about 50 horsepower and could serve both people very nicely.

Alternately... How far can you bore out and stroke the 250? I bet you can hit 40 horses if you increase the displacement up to 300cc. Add EFI and ram air intake and I bet 50 (at speed) would be within reach. After all the 600cc machines can grab more than 100 horses, so a 300cc should be able to grab 50 if you built it to the same level.

Apex · October 22nd, 2009, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg_E

I'm sure it has something to do with emissions and I bet the 400cc road bike would need the same level as the 600+ bikes which would drive the price far too high. This is probably why we don't see 400 class machines, I bet the price difference between the 400 and the 600 is almost nothing, especially if you put in decent suspension.

But I still think a Ninja 400 or GSXR400 would be great and provide a good bridge between beginner and experienced riders. Keep it to about 50 horsepower and could serve both people very nicely.

Alternately... How far can you bore out and stroke the 250? I bet you can hit 40 horses if you increase the displacement up to 300cc. Add EFI and ram air intake and I bet 50 (at speed) would be within reach. After all the 600cc machines can grab more than 100 horses, so a 300cc should be able to grab 50 if you built it to the same level.

Ram air on a 250, now that sounds like a good project.

Greg_E · October 22nd, 2009, 09:52 AM

If I could have found a decent project bike, it was going to happen. Need to convert to EFI to really make it happen. And since everyone around here was stupid with their pricing the option went away. Put in a Microsquirt with a 2.5 bar Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor and maybe a single butterfly throttle that feeds to a Y where the injectors are mounted. Out of tank fuel pump with internal regulater and new coils with built in drivers and program the sucker and run it. You might need to change the cams so that you no longer have the large overlap between exhaust valve closing and intake valve opening, no sense in blowing all that air/fuel out the exhaust valve.

Getting the throttle body and making the intake runners with injector seats and fuel rail is the hard part.

Syphen · October 22nd, 2009, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg_E

A 40 horse 250 would be pretty damn cool, especially if it used a nice lightweight aluminum frame so the total weight was light.

Didn't they make that already?

Oh yeah...

Tada!!

Mine dyno'd at 40hp at rear wheel exactly! Honda rated them at 45, but you'll never see that.

Daeldren · October 22nd, 2009, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Mine dyno'd at 40hp at rear wheel exactly! Honda rated them at 45, but you'll never see that.

Unfortunately they are near impossible to find in the U.S. outside of importing them and at that point parts would need to be imported as well. I would still love one but realistically its not going to happen. Then again there is a guy up in Chesnee who has an imported Derbi 125 that he races (said he had to pick it up while his wife was inducing labor, thats some dedication there).

Syphen · October 22nd, 2009, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daeldren

Unfortunately they are near impossible to find in the U.S. outside of importing them and at that point parts would need to be imported as well. I would still love one but realistically its not going to happen. Then again there is a guy up in Chesnee who has an imported Derbi 125 that he races (said he had to pick it up while his wife was inducing labor, thats some dedication there).

A friend of mine is selling his, 1992 CBR250RR in Toronto, Ontario. That is only a 2 hour drive from Buffalo, 6 from Detroit. Its clean. Its not that hard to find one if you want, and live in New York or Michigan and close to Canadian importers of those bikes

Daeldren · October 22nd, 2009, 03:53 PM

try south east united states, about 10 hours from michigan. Otherwise I'd be all over trying to get a Canadian import. Maybe some day the opportunity will present itself when I can afford it.

sharky nrk · October 26th, 2009, 10:19 AM

no kidding - i would love a 250RR - what do they go for in canada land (us dollars please)

kkim · October 26th, 2009, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syphen

A friend of mine is selling his, 1992 CBR250RR in Toronto, Ontario.

yes, how much?

October 21st, 2009, 03:29 PM	#1
Daeldren two wheel addict Name: Kenneth Location: Simpsonville, SC Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 94 xlh 883, 1984 kawi gpz money pit Posts: 556	450 Super Mono In case none of you have heard about this yet, there is a lot of interest in this series for entry level racing. The idea is that you take a 450 motocross bike, retain the frame, engine and swingarm while adding (supersport suspension, road wheels/tires, and a full fairing) coming out with a track bike that weighs around 250lbs and has about 50 hp. Here is the idea I had, if you added all the extra's to make it DOT approved for road use (lights, mirrors, etc..) you could register it as a dirt bike could you not? Plus I bet you could find have the parts from salvaged bikes and save a bundle to build it. Just an idea

October 21st, 2009, 04:21 PM	#6
Syphen Some weird Canuck! Name: Greg Location: Ontario - Canada Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): '92 CBR250RR "Babyblade", 2008 Ninja 250R, 2001 CBR600F4i Posts: 209	Yeah, those 450's sure look nice. Roland Sands did a wicked job making the concepts. __________________________________________________ I still like CBR's more Just kidding.

October 21st, 2009, 06:45 PM	#11
Apex Livin' the Minimoto Life Name: Mark Location: Riding around in TX Join Date: Mar 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2022 Honda Navi, 2018 Z-125 Pro Posts: A lot.	I'd love to see some inline-4 400's make their way out, on just some sick frames, with the nice brakes, forks, etc. heck, a 250, set up to run premium fuel (around 40hp), all aluminum frame with all the adjustable goodies, 17" wheels, dual front stoppers...I'd so buy it, even if it did cost 6k. It would be a sick track bike. __________________________________________________ --- My IG Page --- My FB page! --- 2022 Honda Navi && 2018 Z-125 Pro

October 21st, 2009, 07:32 PM	#14
Apex Livin' the Minimoto Life Name: Mark Location: Riding around in TX Join Date: Mar 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2022 Honda Navi, 2018 Z-125 Pro Posts: A lot.	I've even been wanting to go custom on the 250. Get with a shop, use setups seen on the RS125, and use a custom aluminum frame. If I can find a super cheap 250, I may just go for it. It would take a lot of design, and I'd have to find out if I could even register it. It would be sick though. Maybe then a dinky 250 on aluminum may seem appealing to the big wigs at the big 4. Since it would be custom, I could design it to accept zx6r plastics too. Hmmmm.... Or find a old aluminum frame on an older zx6r, use the stock brakes, swingarm, etc, and drop the 250 in that. Maybe doing some work to reduce the overall frame size to something more compact. Oh, there is so much to think about. __________________________________________________ --- My IG Page --- My FB page! --- 2022 Honda Navi && 2018 Z-125 Pro

October 22nd, 2009, 06:22 AM	#16
Apex Livin' the Minimoto Life Name: Mark Location: Riding around in TX Join Date: Mar 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2022 Honda Navi, 2018 Z-125 Pro Posts: A lot.	I honestly have no clue why they discontinued 400's. Those are good sized bikes. __________________________________________________ --- My IG Page --- My FB page! --- 2022 Honda Navi && 2018 Z-125 Pro

October 21st, 2009, 03:40 PM	#2
bob706 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Sean Location: Mary Esther, FL Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250 1998 HD Road King Posts: A lot.	Wicked looking bike.

October 21st, 2009, 03:45 PM	#3
HKr1 IC2(SW) Name: Kerry Location: Pensacola Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): . Posts: A lot.	Looks nice! I dont think you can register a DB vin for the street

October 21st, 2009, 03:48 PM	#4
Snake ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Rick Location: Alexandria, Louisiana Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 05 Blue Ninja 250 Posts: Too much. MOTY - 2017, MOTM - Jan '19, Oct '16, May '14	Good looking bike!

October 21st, 2009, 04:06 PM	#5
Daeldren two wheel addict Name: Kenneth Location: Simpsonville, SC Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 94 xlh 883, 1984 kawi gpz money pit Posts: 556	Im not sure what SC DMV will say, they are pretty lax here though on laws (no DB limit, bike doesn't even need turn signals to be approved)

October 21st, 2009, 04:49 PM	#7
backinthesaddleagain ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Greg Location: Rhode Island Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2013 ZX6R 636 Posts: A lot.	Someone i know built a ktm 450 supermoto type bike and has it registered. Now here in Rhode Island many guys have registered dirt bikes (with full lighting kits).

October 21st, 2009, 05:28 PM	#8
Greg_E ninjette.org sage Name: Greg Location: central new york Join Date: Aug 2009 Motorcycle(s): 90 Suzuki gsx600f Katana, 03 Buell XB9R Posts: 868	It would be far cheaper to get a decent road bike chassis and put in the engine of choice. The take the offroad frame and add on road suspension means that the rich guys will immediately put on $1000+ rear shocks and $3000 front ends, not exactly what I would consider a budget class.

October 21st, 2009, 05:38 PM	#9
Daeldren two wheel addict Name: Kenneth Location: Simpsonville, SC Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 94 xlh 883, 1984 kawi gpz money pit Posts: 556	It is still a cool idea though that I wouldn't mind building on a budget down the road. Really the only way to stay in a budget racing series would be to use production class rules that prohibit expensive suspension and engine mods.

October 21st, 2009, 05:53 PM	#10
Greg_E ninjette.org sage Name: Greg Location: central new york Join Date: Aug 2009 Motorcycle(s): 90 Suzuki gsx600f Katana, 03 Buell XB9R Posts: 868	It is certainly interesting and brings back the point that I think we need things like a GSXR400.

October 21st, 2009, 07:14 PM	#12
Greg_E ninjette.org sage Name: Greg Location: central new york Join Date: Aug 2009 Motorcycle(s): 90 Suzuki gsx600f Katana, 03 Buell XB9R Posts: 868	A 40 horse 250 would be pretty damn cool, especially if it used a nice lightweight aluminum frame so the total weight was light.

October 21st, 2009, 07:22 PM	#13
LazinCajun ninjette.org guru Name: Anon Location: Atlanta, GA Join Date: Aug 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Ninja 250 (Blue!) Posts: 488	Agreed, I'd be on it in a heartbeat, but you'd never see it, at least not in the USA. It would be way too expensive, especially with an aluminum frame

October 21st, 2009, 07:41 PM	#15
Daeldren two wheel addict Name: Kenneth Location: Simpsonville, SC Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 94 xlh 883, 1984 kawi gpz money pit Posts: 556	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ducati_Supermono I'd love to see Ducati remake this and make it somewhat affordable. As much as I do love the I-4 250's and 400's that Duc was just pure awesomeness.

October 22nd, 2009, 06:33 AM	#17
camaroz1985 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Ryan Location: Carlisle, PA Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2008 WR250R, 2006 Ural Raven (Sold), 2009 Versys Green (Sold), 2008 Ninja 250R Green (Sold) Posts: A lot.	I love the idea of a 450 dirt/enduro bike turned street bike. Saw this a while back and had the same thoughts as you.

October 22nd, 2009, 06:47 AM	#18
sharky nrk Fighting Texas Aggie '05 Name: Neil Location: Hutto, TX Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): '07 ZX6R, '08 Versys, '09 250R Track, '93 F2/F3 Track Posts: A lot.	can't remember where I read about this, but if I had just a extra cash hanging around it would be an awesome project. however - for the cost you could just buy a used 600 supersport

October 22nd, 2009, 09:00 AM	#20
Greg_E ninjette.org sage Name: Greg Location: central new york Join Date: Aug 2009 Motorcycle(s): 90 Suzuki gsx600f Katana, 03 Buell XB9R Posts: 868	I'm sure it has something to do with emissions and I bet the 400cc road bike would need the same level as the 600+ bikes which would drive the price far too high. This is probably why we don't see 400 class machines, I bet the price difference between the 400 and the 600 is almost nothing, especially if you put in decent suspension. But I still think a Ninja 400 or GSXR400 would be great and provide a good bridge between beginner and experienced riders. Keep it to about 50 horsepower and could serve both people very nicely. Alternately... How far can you bore out and stroke the 250? I bet you can hit 40 horses if you increase the displacement up to 300cc. Add EFI and ram air intake and I bet 50 (at speed) would be within reach. After all the 600cc machines can grab more than 100 horses, so a 300cc should be able to grab 50 if you built it to the same level.

October 22nd, 2009, 09:52 AM	#22
Greg_E ninjette.org sage Name: Greg Location: central new york Join Date: Aug 2009 Motorcycle(s): 90 Suzuki gsx600f Katana, 03 Buell XB9R Posts: 868	If I could have found a decent project bike, it was going to happen. Need to convert to EFI to really make it happen. And since everyone around here was stupid with their pricing the option went away. Put in a Microsquirt with a 2.5 bar Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor and maybe a single butterfly throttle that feeds to a Y where the injectors are mounted. Out of tank fuel pump with internal regulater and new coils with built in drivers and program the sucker and run it. You might need to change the cams so that you no longer have the large overlap between exhaust valve closing and intake valve opening, no sense in blowing all that air/fuel out the exhaust valve. Getting the throttle body and making the intake runners with injector seats and fuel rail is the hard part.

October 22nd, 2009, 03:53 PM	#26
Daeldren two wheel addict Name: Kenneth Location: Simpsonville, SC Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 94 xlh 883, 1984 kawi gpz money pit Posts: 556	try south east united states, about 10 hours from michigan. Otherwise I'd be all over trying to get a Canadian import. Maybe some day the opportunity will present itself when I can afford it.

October 26th, 2009, 10:19 AM	#27
sharky nrk Fighting Texas Aggie '05 Name: Neil Location: Hutto, TX Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): '07 ZX6R, '08 Versys, '09 250R Track, '93 F2/F3 Track Posts: A lot.	no kidding - i would love a 250RR - what do they go for in canada land (us dollars please)

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