What's so great about carbon fiber?

Techno250 · April 29th, 2009, 09:15 PM

I mean, isn't it basically the same thing as fiberglass, except somewhat stronger/lighter? Isn't all this CF stuff really just a fad? (Not that a fad is a bad thing.)

Say I'm getting a rear hugger. Other than looks, why should I pick a CF hugger over, say, one that's black? Is the black one CF underneath but painted?

As far as the usual CF texture/pattern: that's due to using a transparent polymer resin in creating the part, right?

And for the clincher: are some CF farkles not really CF at all, but some sort of graphic treatment on a hunk of regular plastic? How do I know that CF hugger really is CF, and not some sort of graphic treatment?

ak_907_ak · April 29th, 2009, 09:55 PM

i believe its the looks, the overlapping fibers look great in the sunshine.
also its strength, and it light weight.

Verus Cidere · April 29th, 2009, 10:09 PM

It's like you said. Carbon fiber is lighter and stronger than fiberglass. It's also much better looking (IMO). A way to tell if it's real carbon fiber or not is to look at the shine at different angles, and watch it while moving the thing or yourself around. Real CF has a shine that changes depending on the angle of light. Most fake CF is just a print to mimic that glint from a distance. Here are some examples:

Real
CF.jpg

Fake (sorry I couldn't get any close-up pics of this, but you get the idea.)
fake CF.JPG

There are some newer CF prints that are made to glint like the real thing though, and those I couldn't say about differentiating as I've never seen them up close. Hope this helps.

sombo · April 29th, 2009, 10:58 PM

Fiberglass is basically little more then hardened glue with glass fibers in it, not even woven or anything. Carbon fiber is made with highly refined carbon material formed into the threads and woven together then pressed together and reinforced with a higher grade of rosin then what is used for fiberglass. In case you didn't know, carbon is the basic building block of pretty much everything, and when refined properly is one the toughest material currently known (IE diamonds are carbon in it's highest known form). They make CF by forcing carbon cells to realign in just the right way to make it strong like diamonds but still flexible. The current CF that is made has a higher tensile strength then steel while being extremely light. CF has a tensile strength of 5650 compared to stainless steel at 860.

camaroz1985 · April 30th, 2009, 05:23 AM

You can get fiberglass in woven cloth. Also most carbon fiber parts you see available commercially are probably made with the exact same resin as fiberglass. Also if it is shiny it has too much resin and is in fact heavier than it needs to be.

To answer the OP most carbon parts are made for looks and do not offer any significant weight advantage (there are some exceptions).

M-Oorb · April 30th, 2009, 07:31 AM

Is carbon fiber a fad? Hmm...let's ask F1 drivers, people who build airplanes or hockey sticks or golf clubs or just about anything that needs to be strong AND light. Will it eventually fade away...yea sure but that's when someone finds something stronger and lighter. As for little carbon fiber bits on our bikes...I'd say its mostly for looks but there are some real serious applications for this stuff.
Posted via Mobile Device

camaroz1985 · April 30th, 2009, 07:46 AM

Carbon is becoming more widely used in industries, unfortunately there is a worldwide carbon shortage right now, and it makes it hard to come by and expensive. Thanks Boeing

ninjabrewer · April 30th, 2009, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camaroz1985

Carbon is becoming more widely used in industries, unfortunately there is a worldwide carbon shortage right now, and it makes it hard to come by and expensive. Thanks Boeing

HMM, and we have too much in the atmosphere. HMM, how to separate it from the 2 oxygen molecules. Somehow, there is either a way to get filthy rich or a country song in there somewhere.

nb

Techno250 · April 30th, 2009, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by camaroz1985

You can get fiberglass in woven cloth. Also most carbon fiber parts you see available commercially are probably made with the exact same resin as fiberglass. Also if it is shiny it has too much resin and is in fact heavier than it needs to be.

To answer the OP most carbon parts are made for looks and do not offer any significant weight advantage (there are some exceptions).

Pretty much what I thought. I've seen my brother-in-law make repairs on a boat with fiberglass cloth and resin, and that also reminds me of the Tri-Magnum from the 80s.

It's interesting that if CF is shiny, it has too much resin.

Quote:

Originally Posted by M-Oorb

Is carbon fiber a fad? Hmm...let's ask F1 drivers, people who build airplanes or hockey sticks or golf clubs or just about anything that needs to be strong AND light.

What I meant by "fad" was all the bling you seen in ads in the backs of magazines, like CF tank pads and stick-on CF -- I was wondering if they were real CF (which seems pointless for a lot of things) or just graphics. I understand its use in aircraft and so on, but you don't actually see the CF in those applications.

All this said, I must admit that a real CF hugger could look pretty spiffy.

And what I guess I was getting at is this: is there a performance/durability advantage if I bought a CF hugger (or other functional part) over a fiberglass one -- and Ryan pretty much answered that question.

Thanks for the great, insightful replies, y'all!

Realirony · April 30th, 2009, 09:29 AM

I dunno about you guys. But if these guys they talk about in this article get this spider silk thing working for them. Carbon Fiber gonna be out of business XD
http://faculty.washington.edu/yagerp...ojecthome.html

imagine...spider web silk motorcycle jackets and pants. heh. scary kinda

capt_bugaloo · April 30th, 2009, 11:06 AM

Most of the carbon fiber add-ons for motorcycles (tank pads, fenders, rear huggers, etc.) are fake and only appear to be CF.

For non-racing motorcycles, there doesn't appear to be enough of a weight-saving to bother with using real CF.

For things like airplanes and racing, CF can give you great strength combined with low weight.

sombo · April 30th, 2009, 11:11 AM

It won't put CF out of business. If anything it will help boost it. The spider silk will be used most for military and police applications and therefore replace the current carbon based materials. This will make spider silk a bit more exclusive and therefore expensive. CF will become more available and drop in price thus allowing more people to use it for more applications. It's just the way the world works. It get's created, used for/by the government, then spills out to the public.

Realirony · April 30th, 2009, 11:18 AM

quit making me look bad with your smart outlook on how the market works >.> heh
though that would be nice to have CF products go down in price, not that I ever really looked into buying any, I feel that CF products on a black bike (like I have) almost seems like a waste of contrast (I'd get it for looks of course). But I can def see about why its become such a "fad" or at least seems like it. Is it just me or does it seem that after Fast and the Furious, Torque, and other such movies about vehicles came out, that mods and CF and pipes became a big aesthetics deal. >_o

backinthesaddleagain · April 30th, 2009, 01:44 PM

Put me in the minority who thinks carbon fiber isn't that great looking. Note I am not saying it doesn't have the functional quality of strength and light weight, just not a fan of the looks.

HKr1 · April 30th, 2009, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by backinthesaddleagain

Put me in the minority who thinks carbon fiber isn't that great looking. Note I am not saying it doesn't have the functional quality of strength and light weight, just not a fan of the looks.

Iam kinda with you. But, it looks real nice on the new ZO6 corvette fenders...... "Painted"

Techno250 · April 30th, 2009, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by backinthesaddleagain

Put me in the minority who thinks carbon fiber isn't that great looking. Note I am not saying it doesn't have the functional quality of strength and light weight, just not a fan of the looks.

Looks like somebody agrees with you, as today news has hit that Apple has filed for a patent on making carbon fiber not look like carbon fiber: Filing confirms Apple exploring carbon fiber Mac enclosures

Jiu Jitsu Player · April 30th, 2009, 05:17 PM

Carbon fiber > sliced bread

M-Oorb · April 30th, 2009, 05:28 PM

now do you mean sliced white bread or sliced whole wheat bread because we all know the health benefits of having more fiber in our diet

stroked59 · April 30th, 2009, 05:58 PM

the cost......

TnNinjaGirl · April 30th, 2009, 09:07 PM

This is...

Techno250 · May 1st, 2009, 05:09 PM

Favorite bit of CF EVAR! Thx Corey Beth!

TnNinjaGirl · May 1st, 2009, 05:14 PM

I do my best. Burt Rutan is a hero of mine.

Snake · May 2nd, 2009, 04:53 AM

Burt Rutan is a one of my heroes as well. He has always been way ahead of his time.

TnNinjaGirl · May 2nd, 2009, 06:43 AM

From what I understand he is a bit of a jerk. Though he does back it up with being one of the greatest private industry innovators of all time (in my opinion). He is the modern day Leonardo Da Vinci.

camaroz1985 · May 4th, 2009, 06:36 AM

One of my best friends from college is working for Burt at Scaled Composites (I hate my friend haha).

Kerry, You are right I think carbon looks great painted, but we did some work on our FSAE car at Vermont Composites (they make the Z06 fenders), and they look pretty damn good bare too.

TnNinjaGirl · May 4th, 2009, 10:26 AM

Don't you have to be practically hand-picked to work for Scaled Composites?

camaroz1985 · May 4th, 2009, 11:00 AM

I don't know really. All I know is he applied, they flew him out for an interview and maybe a month later he had a job. I only see him about once a year now, and don't talk to him too much in between, but he loves the job (understandably).

krazygluon · May 28th, 2009, 05:53 PM

My next helmet will be CF.

I had several CF parts on my (human powered) bike, including a seatpost that was not long for the world when my fat a$$ first sat down on it. I like it as a frame material, but I think its better suited to total conversions than piece-here-piece there additions in the name of improvement.

Buffalony · June 2nd, 2009, 03:15 PM

Green ninjas dont need CF

TnNinjaGirl · June 2nd, 2009, 06:49 PM

I'd like to be made out of CF. Not piece by piece though, I need total improvement.

April 29th, 2009, 09:15 PM	#1
Techno250 bikeless n00b Name: Woody Location: Newnan, GA Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): None yet. My dream machine is a BLUE 250R. Posts: 91	What's so great about carbon fiber? I mean, isn't it basically the same thing as fiberglass, except somewhat stronger/lighter? Isn't all this CF stuff really just a fad? (Not that a fad is a bad thing.) Say I'm getting a rear hugger. Other than looks, why should I pick a CF hugger over, say, one that's black? Is the black one CF underneath but painted? As far as the usual CF texture/pattern: that's due to using a transparent polymer resin in creating the part, right? And for the clincher: are some CF farkles not really CF at all, but some sort of graphic treatment on a hunk of regular plastic? How do I know that CF hugger really is CF, and not some sort of graphic treatment?

April 29th, 2009, 09:55 PM	#2
ak_907_ak ninjette.org member Name: Nico Location: Anchorage, Alaska Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250R Posts: 52	i believe its the looks, the overlapping fibers look great in the sunshine. also its strength, and it light weight. __________________________________________________ '08 Ninja 250R: Yoshi Full System, HID's, FP Jet Kit, Snorkel removed, LED Brakelight, LED Footpeg Turnsignals, Zero Gravity SR Windscreen, Fender Eliminator, Solo Seat Cowl, Woodcraft Clip-Ons

April 29th, 2009, 10:09 PM	#3
Verus Cidere ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Michael Location: Southern NM Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): '91 Honda CBR600 F2 Posts: A lot.	It's like you said. Carbon fiber is lighter and stronger than fiberglass. It's also much better looking (IMO). A way to tell if it's real carbon fiber or not is to look at the shine at different angles, and watch it while moving the thing or yourself around. Real CF has a shine that changes depending on the angle of light. Most fake CF is just a print to mimic that glint from a distance. Here are some examples: Real CF.jpg Fake (sorry I couldn't get any close-up pics of this, but you get the idea.) fake CF.JPG There are some newer CF prints that are made to glint like the real thing though, and those I couldn't say about differentiating as I've never seen them up close. Hope this helps. __________________________________________________ 1991 Honda CBR600 F2, White/Gray, D&D slip-on exhaust, tail integrator, gel grips, Custom undertail.

April 30th, 2009, 09:29 AM	#10
Realirony That New Kid Name: Matthew Location: Raleigh Join Date: Mar 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Kawasaki Ninja250R Posts: 68	I dunno about you guys. But if these guys they talk about in this article get this spider silk thing working for them. Carbon Fiber gonna be out of business XD http://faculty.washington.edu/yagerp...ojecthome.html imagine...spider web silk motorcycle jackets and pants. heh. scary kinda __________________________________________________ I'm not crazy, I just know something the others don't

April 30th, 2009, 11:06 AM	#11
capt_bugaloo motorcycle rider Name: Bruce Location: Victoria, BC Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): '14 Yamaha V-Star 650 Custom (silver) Posts: A lot.	Most of the carbon fiber add-ons for motorcycles (tank pads, fenders, rear huggers, etc.) are fake and only appear to be CF. For non-racing motorcycles, there doesn't appear to be enough of a weight-saving to bother with using real CF. For things like airplanes and racing, CF can give you great strength combined with low weight. __________________________________________________ '14 Yamaha V-Star 650 Custom (silver)

April 29th, 2009, 10:58 PM	#4
sombo Newb..... on a steeek! :D Name: Mike Location: Windermere, FL Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2012 Harley Davidson XL883L Sportster Superlow Posts: A lot.	Fiberglass is basically little more then hardened glue with glass fibers in it, not even woven or anything. Carbon fiber is made with highly refined carbon material formed into the threads and woven together then pressed together and reinforced with a higher grade of rosin then what is used for fiberglass. In case you didn't know, carbon is the basic building block of pretty much everything, and when refined properly is one the toughest material currently known (IE diamonds are carbon in it's highest known form). They make CF by forcing carbon cells to realign in just the right way to make it strong like diamonds but still flexible. The current CF that is made has a higher tensile strength then steel while being extremely light. CF has a tensile strength of 5650 compared to stainless steel at 860.

April 30th, 2009, 05:23 AM	#5
camaroz1985 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Ryan Location: Carlisle, PA Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2008 WR250R, 2006 Ural Raven (Sold), 2009 Versys Green (Sold), 2008 Ninja 250R Green (Sold) Posts: A lot.	You can get fiberglass in woven cloth. Also most carbon fiber parts you see available commercially are probably made with the exact same resin as fiberglass. Also if it is shiny it has too much resin and is in fact heavier than it needs to be. To answer the OP most carbon parts are made for looks and do not offer any significant weight advantage (there are some exceptions).

April 30th, 2009, 07:31 AM	#6
M-Oorb ninjette.org sage Name: Matt Location: South East Florida/Rutgers University Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2008 250r (Fastest Color) Posts: 914	Is carbon fiber a fad? Hmm...let's ask F1 drivers, people who build airplanes or hockey sticks or golf clubs or just about anything that needs to be strong AND light. Will it eventually fade away...yea sure but that's when someone finds something stronger and lighter. As for little carbon fiber bits on our bikes...I'd say its mostly for looks but there are some real serious applications for this stuff. Posted via Mobile Device

April 30th, 2009, 07:46 AM	#7
camaroz1985 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Ryan Location: Carlisle, PA Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2008 WR250R, 2006 Ural Raven (Sold), 2009 Versys Green (Sold), 2008 Ninja 250R Green (Sold) Posts: A lot.	Carbon is becoming more widely used in industries, unfortunately there is a worldwide carbon shortage right now, and it makes it hard to come by and expensive. Thanks Boeing

April 30th, 2009, 11:11 AM	#12
sombo Newb..... on a steeek! :D Name: Mike Location: Windermere, FL Join Date: Feb 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2012 Harley Davidson XL883L Sportster Superlow Posts: A lot.	It won't put CF out of business. If anything it will help boost it. The spider silk will be used most for military and police applications and therefore replace the current carbon based materials. This will make spider silk a bit more exclusive and therefore expensive. CF will become more available and drop in price thus allowing more people to use it for more applications. It's just the way the world works. It get's created, used for/by the government, then spills out to the public.

April 30th, 2009, 11:18 AM	#13
Realirony That New Kid Name: Matthew Location: Raleigh Join Date: Mar 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 Kawasaki Ninja250R Posts: 68	quit making me look bad with your smart outlook on how the market works >.> heh though that would be nice to have CF products go down in price, not that I ever really looked into buying any, I feel that CF products on a black bike (like I have) almost seems like a waste of contrast (I'd get it for looks of course). But I can def see about why its become such a "fad" or at least seems like it. Is it just me or does it seem that after Fast and the Furious, Torque, and other such movies about vehicles came out, that mods and CF and pipes became a big aesthetics deal. >_o __________________________________________________ I'm not crazy, I just know something the others don't

April 30th, 2009, 01:44 PM	#14
backinthesaddleagain ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Greg Location: Rhode Island Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2013 ZX6R 636 Posts: A lot.	Put me in the minority who thinks carbon fiber isn't that great looking. Note I am not saying it doesn't have the functional quality of strength and light weight, just not a fan of the looks.

April 30th, 2009, 05:17 PM	#17
Jiu Jitsu Player Live 2 Ride Forced 2 Work Name: Chris Location: Guam Join Date: Mar 2009 Motorcycle(s): 2008 RED 250r Posts: 386	Carbon fiber > sliced bread __________________________________________________ SAVAGE MODE: [ON] OFF www.7milesdown.com

April 30th, 2009, 05:28 PM	#18
M-Oorb ninjette.org sage Name: Matt Location: South East Florida/Rutgers University Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2008 250r (Fastest Color) Posts: 914	now do you mean sliced white bread or sliced whole wheat bread because we all know the health benefits of having more fiber in our diet

April 30th, 2009, 05:58 PM	#19
stroked59 ninjette.org member Name: Tim Location: O*C California Join Date: Dec 2008 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 2505 Posts: 98	the cost......

April 30th, 2009, 09:07 PM	#20
TnNinjaGirl Ms. Personality Name: CB Location: Murvill, TN Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): Depends on the week you ask Posts: A lot.	This is...

May 1st, 2009, 05:09 PM	#21
Techno250 bikeless n00b Name: Woody Location: Newnan, GA Join Date: Apr 2009 Motorcycle(s): None yet. My dream machine is a BLUE 250R. Posts: 91	Favorite bit of CF EVAR! Thx Corey Beth!

May 1st, 2009, 05:14 PM	#22
TnNinjaGirl Ms. Personality Name: CB Location: Murvill, TN Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): Depends on the week you ask Posts: A lot.	I do my best. Burt Rutan is a hero of mine.

May 2nd, 2009, 04:53 AM	#23
Snake ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Rick Location: Alexandria, Louisiana Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 05 Blue Ninja 250 Posts: Too much. MOTY - 2017, MOTM - Jan '19, Oct '16, May '14	Burt Rutan is a one of my heroes as well. He has always been way ahead of his time.

May 2nd, 2009, 06:43 AM	#24
TnNinjaGirl Ms. Personality Name: CB Location: Murvill, TN Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): Depends on the week you ask Posts: A lot.	From what I understand he is a bit of a jerk. Though he does back it up with being one of the greatest private industry innovators of all time (in my opinion). He is the modern day Leonardo Da Vinci.

May 4th, 2009, 06:36 AM	#25
camaroz1985 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Ryan Location: Carlisle, PA Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2008 WR250R, 2006 Ural Raven (Sold), 2009 Versys Green (Sold), 2008 Ninja 250R Green (Sold) Posts: A lot.	One of my best friends from college is working for Burt at Scaled Composites (I hate my friend haha). Kerry, You are right I think carbon looks great painted, but we did some work on our FSAE car at Vermont Composites (they make the Z06 fenders), and they look pretty damn good bare too.

May 4th, 2009, 10:26 AM	#26
TnNinjaGirl Ms. Personality Name: CB Location: Murvill, TN Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): Depends on the week you ask Posts: A lot.	Don't you have to be practically hand-picked to work for Scaled Composites?

May 4th, 2009, 11:00 AM	#27
camaroz1985 ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Ryan Location: Carlisle, PA Join Date: Nov 2008 Motorcycle(s): 2008 WR250R, 2006 Ural Raven (Sold), 2009 Versys Green (Sold), 2008 Ninja 250R Green (Sold) Posts: A lot.	I don't know really. All I know is he applied, they flew him out for an interview and maybe a month later he had a job. I only see him about once a year now, and don't talk to him too much in between, but he loves the job (understandably).

May 28th, 2009, 05:53 PM	#28
krazygluon Parking Lot Qualified Name: Fielding Location: Michigan Join Date: May 2009 Motorcycle(s): '09 Ninja 250 Posts: 30	My next helmet will be CF. I had several CF parts on my (human powered) bike, including a seatpost that was not long for the world when my fat a$$ first sat down on it. I like it as a frame material, but I think its better suited to total conversions than piece-here-piece there additions in the name of improvement.

June 2nd, 2009, 03:15 PM	#29
Buffalony ninjette.org certified postwhore Name: Joe Location: Buffalo NY Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): 08 Ninja 250 "Wasabi", 82 Yamaha xj650j Posts: A lot.	Green ninjas dont need CF __________________________________________________

June 2nd, 2009, 06:49 PM	#30
TnNinjaGirl Ms. Personality Name: CB Location: Murvill, TN Join Date: Jan 2009 Motorcycle(s): Depends on the week you ask Posts: A lot.	I'd like to be made out of CF. Not piece by piece though, I need total improvement.

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