2 issues I am having as a beginner...

[Miraha]

I am hoping these are normal "n00b" errors...

as I am slowing down, anticipating a turn/curve etc... I down shift prior to getting to it and I by the time I release the clutch I am already into the turn and the back end slides out to the side, I have done this twice now (grrrr and I am fully aware I am doing it, while I am doing it!!!) luckily I havent dumped it and recovered both times. So should I downshift earlier or just use the brakes to slow up?

my 2nd error.... I constantly lose track of what gear I am in, as an example I was cruising along at about 50mph and came up to my left turn, so as I enter into the turn lane I down shift a few times (thinking I will actually stop) but then traffic cleared so I release the clutch (thinking im in like 2nd or maybe 3rd) but I was in 1st and going about 20+ so of course the bike lurched and skid, once again I recovered...

will I eventually work these out with more ride time? or am I doing it all wrong?

[scotty]

Always be in the gear you want to take the turn in, before you get there. I always forget what gear i'm in. I am always looking for a 7th gear lol. I did that that last time I rode. (Before Ohio became a huge lake due to all this rain ...)

[Racer x]

Motorcycle riding is not a natural thing to do. Is there any type of training you can get? like a track day. You are still in the habit forming stage of riding . Getting professional or even just " A nice guy at the track" type of instruction would be a great way to build your skill and confidence level. And getting instruction will help keep you from starting bad habits.

If that is out of the question then BOOKS .Study books like Total Control by Lee Parks . Of any of the riding instruction books you can find at the local book store. Riding is deadly serous. In the mean time just slow down.

[phr3ek]

be in gear b4 you enter the turn
or if you didnt make it in time, just keep clutch in and finish the turn

learn what gears operate at what speeds
so if traffic doesnt stop as you anticipated, just look down , see what speed you are going, then shift into the appropriate gear

[TnNinjaGirl]

Like others have said, be in gear before the turn. Don't be afraid to rev up the throttle to match your speed so there isn't so much of a jerk. You can rev these bikes up pretty high. It won't hurt them. In fact, they like it!

I still forget which gear I am in. It gets better, though. Just relax, take a deep breath and try to not be so worried when riding. It's like being in water, the more relaxed you are, the easier it is to swim.

Keep up the good work! You will be just fine!

[tac12345]

When you downshift for a redlight, do 1 gear at a time, then release the clutch (don't forget to rev-match that gear). The only time i drop 2-3 gear at 1 time, it's when it's a stop ahead.

[Live2ride]

As others have said, you need to be in the correct gear before you enter the turn. One very good way of making sure your in the right gear is engine braking, downshift and slowly release the clutch to slow down. Eventually ,a few weeks to a month or so (depending on how much you ride), you should learn by feel what to do and what gear to be in. Time and miles will help but never brake while turning, your bike should always be upright when braking.

[Miraha]

Thanks for all the info!

[AMMOCAN]

Originally Posted by Miraha

I am hoping these are normal "n00b" errors...
as I am slowing down, anticipating a turn/curve etc... I down shift prior to getting to it and I by the time I release the clutch I am already into the turn and the back end slides out to the side, I have done this twice now (grrrr and I am fully aware I am doing it, while I am doing it!!!) luckily I havent dumped it and recovered both times. So should I downshift earlier or just use the brakes to slow up?

It definitely sounds like you are going too fast into the turn even with your down shifting, which when you release the clutch and return power to the rear wheel it is sliding out from under you. This of course can be more or less severe depending on the control of your clutch release and the actual amount of power you are returning to the rear wheel. I would recommend that you apply the appropriate braking and downshifting before entering the turn, which is dependent on the degree of the turn and your comfort/skill level for handling it.

Originally Posted by Miraha

2nd error.... I constantly lose track of what gear I am in, as an example I was cruising along at about 50mph and came up to my left turn, so as I enter into the turn lane I down shift a few times (thinking I will actually stop) but then traffic cleared so I release the clutch (thinking im in like 2nd or maybe 3rd) but I was in 1st and going about 20+ so of course the bike lurched and skid, once again I recovered...

Personally, I don't pay too much attention to the exact gear number that I am in, but rather to how the motorcycle is sounding and feels, which is relative to the present RPMs and current gear it is in. Depending on what I feel and hear I know to either down shift or up shift.

My method might be very unorthodox, but it is the way how I learned how to ride dirt bikes and how to drive a manual transmission automobile, and I have not had any issues.

Originally Posted by Miraha

Will I eventually work these out with more ride time? or am I doing it all wrong?

First, have you taken the MSF BRC? If not, then I highly recommend you do so. If you have, then I recommend you continue to practice and build off of what you learned during the course. Reading some books is a good idea, but if you are a visual learner like myself, then you could always watch videos off of the MSF website or through YouTube. I also tend to do some mental training exercises before going out and practicing anything new.

Bottom line is we only get better at something through practice, practice, and more practice. The more you do something unnatural the more it becomes second nature/natural, as our brain wires it into our muscle memory, which is the same reason why we are able to use the phrase, "like riding a bike" because most of us spent a great deal of our childhood riding a bicycle and even though some if not most of us don't ride a bicycle anymore we could all pick one up and start riding it with out any serious issues because our brain has already hard wired the skills needed to ride a bicycle many years ago.

[Kevin2109]

I look for the 7th gear all the time lol

[setasai]

+1 on what everybody else says. Because this bike has fairly short gears and high reving engine, it's not a completely necessary to downshift that many gears. I frequently downshift 2 gears for a turn. After a while, rev-matching ensures youre in a gear you can use. 1st gear is the biggest pain because it's so short and so powerful that if you're ever in it, you'll be either reving at 10k+ or skidding. Usually, I'll revmatch every gear except 1st and 2nd because if i'm in those gears, I might as well be stopping.

For practice, I suggest you find a parking lot and just try to ride around switching gears to get a feel for it and also some residential riding is great for revmatching practice because of all the stop signs. Goodluck and have lots of fun.

[Miraha]

Originally Posted by AMMOCAN

First, have you taken the MSF BRC?

yes, I completed it about a month ago. I remember: never brake while in the curve which is why I have it in my head, I have to be going slow enough into the curve/turn to accelerate through/out of it... the instructors really harped about this.

[Kevin2109]

Originally Posted by Miraha

yes, I completed it about a month ago. I remember: never brake while in the curve which is why I have it in my head, I have to be going slow enough into the curve/turn to accelerate through/out of it... the instructors really harped about this.

How long have you been riding? I did the same thing as you when I first started riding, after doing it a couple times I stopped. Youll get used to the bike, take it slow and ride when you can

[Miraha]

Originally Posted by Kevin2109

How long have you been riding? I did the same thing as you when I first started riding, after doing it a couple times I stopped. Youll get used to the bike, take it slow and ride when you can

I just got the bike saturday, so I been riding 3 whole days! day 1 I just cruised around the neighborhood, but by day 2 I got bored and ventured out on main roads, I am slowly making my way further and further away from home (okay maybe not so slowly...)

[setasai]

Sounds like you'll do fine. You're just that, a beginner. Give it a couple weeks and you'll get the hang of it. Remember to breathe as you're riding. As an instructor, I find many of my students tend to hold their breath when they're nervous. Usually the ones involving animal manipulation though. =)

[AMMOCAN]

[Kevin2109]

Originally Posted by Miraha

I just got the bike saturday, so I been riding 3 whole days! day 1 I just cruised around the neighborhood, but by day 2 I got bored and ventured out on main roads, I am slowly making my way further and further away from home (okay maybe not so slowly...)

Youll be fine Just be confident, but not cocky. Always be aware and always pay attention to everything. I went on a 200 mile trip to San Diego the third day I had my bike

[AMMOCAN]

[bdavison]

The reason you are sliding the rear out, is because you are downshifting with the bike leaned over. When you do this, the revs on the engine are lower than the speed the rear wheel is spinning...so effectively, its like stomping on the rear brake.

As a beginner, dont downshift in the corner. Remember the rule, slow in, fast out.

You should have already completed braking and downshifting before you start your turn in. Once you start your turn in you should already be in the proper gear to hold maintaining throttle through the turn, and to perform your roll on at the apex for the exit.

[AMMOCAN]

[Alex]

/moved to riding skills area

[JeffM]

Great advice here.

As a new rider you need to practice skills, over and over, again and again, in a relatively safe environment. Stick to quiet streets and your neighborhood for a while. Never down shift in a corner. If you have forgotten what gear you are in as you down shift prior to a corner and are in between gears - up shift. Better to be one gear too high. If you drop into too low of a gear you will lock up the rear wheel.

Try to be as methodical as you can and do the same sequence every time you slow for a corner, down shift, or look both ways at an intersection. Acquiring good habits is the key to riding smooth and safe.

I hate trying to find 7th too.

Enjoy the new bike and ride safe.

Cheers, Jeff

[rockNroll]

How do I not be redundant here?

Have you done any motorcycle control reading? If so, what? Can you drive a manual transmission car?

Have a clear head (and use it), wear your gear, be patient and relaxed... you're gonna be fine

[Cali619]

Originally Posted by Miraha

I am hoping these are normal "n00b" errors...

as I am slowing down, anticipating a turn/curve etc... I down shift prior to getting to it and I by the time I release the clutch I am already into the turn and the back end slides out to the side, I have done this twice now (grrrr and I am fully aware I am doing it, while I am doing it!!!) luckily I havent dumped it and recovered both times. So should I downshift earlier or just use the brakes to slow up?

You want to be in the gear you plan to take the turn in before you lean in, it sounds like you may be going in to hot and when you down shift your rear slides do to the revs being really high and locking up. Since we dont have a slipper clutch I advise not having to do any shifting until exiting.
my 2nd error.... I constantly lose track of what gear I am in, as an example I was cruising along at about 50mph and came up to my left turn, so as I enter into the turn lane I down shift a few times (thinking I will actually stop) but then traffic cleared so I release the clutch (thinking im in like 2nd or maybe 3rd) but I was in 1st and going about 20+ so of course the bike lurched and skid, once again I recovered...

will I eventually work these out with more ride time? or am I doing it all wrong?

Thats common, eventually you will just get used to the sound your engines making to know when to shift up or down.

P.S.

PM me I have a couple things you can read to help as you practice.

[miss_connie]

There are many instructional videos on YouTube.. I've spent many hours on there.. BUT read the comments on the videos so you know the ones worth watching..

[Boom King]

It might be a "noob" thing to do but I actually count the gear I am in to myself and sometimes even say to myself to help remember. "44,... 55,... back down to 44" etc. It's not like anyone else can hear you inside that helmet anyways. I find it helps. Gradually, I am learning to "feel" the gear by comparing speed and the rpm and also by sound.

[setasai]

Originally Posted by Boom King

It might be a "noob" thing to do but I actually count the gear I am in to myself and sometimes even say to myself to help remember. "44,... 55,... back down to 44" etc. It's not like anyone else can hear you inside that helmet anyways. I find it helps. Gradually, I am learning to "feel" the gear by comparing speed and the rpm and also by sound.

To be honest, I do that sometimes. I also sometimes will guess what gear I am in and then count down to see if my senses are gauging them accurately.

[Miraha]

well I logged in some miles today and didnt downshift while in while in any curves or turns... I paid more attention to just using the brakes and coasting while in neutral...

New Question: I have noticed as Im anticipating a stop up ahead, I will just squeeze the clutch, go to N, and say the light changes while still rolling... I will just pop into 2nd or 3rd (whichever is appropriate) when upshifting from N, it seems to "Clunk" into gear... this doesnt happen when upshifting during normal operation. Is this ok?

I will usually keep the clutch squeezed and downshift all the way to 1st, then to N... and is the "clunk" when hitting 1st normal also?

Thanks again for all the help and to answer a few of the asked questions: yes I am very familiar with manual transmission cars, I have owned a number of them. No I havent read any books on motorcycle riding, and to be honest, I probably wont, I can spend hours researching information on the internet, but actual book reading? ummm no

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Miraha

New Question: I have noticed as Im anticipating a stop up ahead, I will just squeeze the clutch, go to N, and say the light changes while still rolling... I will just pop into 2nd or 3rd (whichever is appropriate) when upshifting from N, it seems to "Clunk" into gear... this doesnt happen when upshifting during normal operation. Is this ok?

I tend to not leave the bike in N while moving at all. It does cause a large clunk if you are going into 1st or 2nd from neutral while at speed, and while it may not be terribly dangerous for the transmission, it certainly isn't doing any good for it. More importantly, it's generally safer to always have the transmission in gear while riding, as it means it's that much quicker for you to accelerate if you choose to based on something surprising (unexpected car darting near you, whatever).

[Clearlynotstefan]

Yeah def wouldn't do that neutral thing. You should use that opportunity to get more comfortable with the gears, not avoid them. Roll off the throttle till the bike hits a low rpm, squeeze the clutch, and pop down a gear, then rev the bike up pretty high (7kish?) and feather the clutch out. Roll off the throttle and repeat (if you have the space and are starting from a high gear). <rev matching>

From 4->3 or 3->2 when approaching a certain stop (stop sign, light that JUST turned red) I roll off the throttle till low rpm, squeeze the clutch and pop down a gear, then without rev matching very slowly feed the clutch through the friction zone (while lightly applying the front brake to light the lights) slowing the bike down before squeezing the clutch and coasting to a stop (if going from 4th down, repeat from 3-2 as well provided there is space) once at a stop, or very near to it, I shift to FIRST and keep the clutch pulled in, ready to take off in a hurry if needed

The concept being that at any given point, you should be able to accelerate as quickly as possible. Coasting in 4th with the bike going 8mph with a light about to turn green in front of you (or a cager up your ass) is not a great way to get out in a hurry. by either rev matching, or feathering the clutch out slowly in lower gears, your wheels are pretty much always engaged (or damn close) to the engine, so if the environment changes, your ready to change with it!

ALSO, I've only been riding a few weeks myself, but I struggled with clutch control early on, and feel much more comfortable with it now. For the record, theres a chance everything I've told you isn't correct, so listen to guys with more seat time, but this is just my experience!

Hope I helped

[setasai]

Why not downshift as you slow? It's not a problem to be in 3rd as you approach a stop and then last second or even after you put your foot down to shift to 1st. Cruising in N is quite dangerous IMO because you dont know what gear you should be in nor do you know which gear you are in.

You can also more than likely use the rpms as a judge, even at 15mph in 1st, you'll be at 8k rpms or so and most of the time people dont slow to 15mph and cruise to a stop so you're more likely to be good in 2nd or even 3rd until you get close and if the light changes you can just roll out on the throttle and more than likely keep up with the slow moving cars.

Originally Posted by Clearlynotstefan

The concept being that at any given point, you should be able to accelerate as quickly as possible. Coasting in 4th with the bike going 8mph with a light about to turn green in front of you (or a cager up your ass) is not a great way to get out in a hurry. by either rev matching, or feathering the clutch out slowly in lower gears, your wheels are pretty much always engaged (or damn close) to the engine, so if the environment changes, your ready to change with it!

Exactly the point. Although, in 4th going 8mph is fairly unreasonable unlikely to happen since that's 1st gear territory. If you were going that slow your engine probably stalled by then. When the bike is in gear and rpms drop down to 3-4k, you're in a good range to downshift which would bring the rpms back up 2k... then do the same thing. It's really repetitive motion and muscle memory will take over at some point.

PRACTICE and SMOOTH, If you relax, you'll realize you have all the time in the world to make these adjustments.

[JeffM]

Michele look here: Sixty Second Lessons with Captain Crash.. This are great video tutorial on basic riding skills.

Read this: http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Riding_Techniques
This:http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/E-Z_shi...s#Downshifting
And this: http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Acceler...s#Downshifting

I find it interesting that you choose not to read up on riding techniques.

A suggestion: Proficient Motorcycle Riding by Dave Hough is one of the best books written on riding well and safely. I must have read it 15 times. Highly recommended. Get it at the library.

Jeff

[Pyro]

Originally Posted by JeffM

Michele look here: Sixty Second Lessons with Captain Crash.. This are great video tutorial on basic riding skills.

Read this: http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Riding_Techniques
This:http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/E-Z_shi...s#Downshifting
And this: http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/Acceler...s#Downshifting

I find it interesting that you choose not to read up on riding techniques.

A suggestion: Proficient Motorcycle Riding by Dave Hough is one of the best books written on riding well and safely. I must have read it 15 times. Highly recommended. Get it at the library.

Jeff

Thanks, something to check out

I'm getting into the habit of shifting down as I approach a stop or turn, but still slip up from time to time and often skip from 3rd to 1st at a stop.

Today was one such time. I dropped down to 1st from 4th at a red light. The light went green before I stopped, and instead of gearing up to 2nd or third, I dump the clutch for my turn :/

Rear wheel did a quick S, and I went around the corner at excessively high RPM

---

I'm still used to driving a car that's comfortable in the 3000-6000 rpm range, so it feels unnatural to drive above my normal shifting point.

I've only got about 200km under my belt though, so still catching on, but man does it sound good when you nail those downshifts coming up to a stop or turn.

[HKr1]

Originally Posted by Miraha

well I logged in some miles today and didnt downshift while in while in any curves or turns... I paid more attention to just using the brakes and coasting while in neutral...

New Question: I have noticed as Im anticipating a stop up ahead, I will just squeeze the clutch, go to N, and say the light changes while still rolling... I will just pop into 2nd or 3rd (whichever is appropriate) when upshifting from N, it seems to "Clunk" into gear... this doesnt happen when upshifting during normal operation. Is this ok?

I will usually keep the clutch squeezed and downshift all the way to 1st, then to N... and is the "clunk" when hitting 1st normal also?

Never, Never, Ever use Neutral while your moving. If you wanna coast, pull in the clutch. Most states even have a VC about coasting, like its a ticket. not really sure how they would prove that one thou.
Always be in a gear while your moving. As your slowing, move down thru the gears. When your coming to a stop, you should have went thru each gear and be in 1st before pulling in the clutch to stop. I think thats part of the fun about riding myself, going thru the gears.
Also you can be easy/slower on the clutch when slowing. < this really works well later, after you learn down shifting thru the gears, you might wanna go down two or 3 while slowing.< thats later

[Miraha]

Originally Posted by HKr1

Never, Never, Ever use Neutral while your moving. If you wanna coast, pull in the clutch. Most states even have a VC about coasting, like its a ticket. not really sure how they would prove that one thou.
Always be in a gear while your moving. As your slowing, move down thru the gears. When your coming to a stop, you should have went thru each gear and be in 1st before pulling in the clutch to stop. I think thats part of the fun about riding myself, going thru the gears.
Also you can be easy/slower on the clutch when slowing. < this really works well later, after you learn down shifting thru the gears, you might wanna go down two or 3 while slowing.< thats later

will do, I just assumed it wasnt a bad thing, since others asked about manual cars and such. I also thought others did this as it appears most riders I see already stopped at a light and such are sitting in N. I guess they must have went to N after stopping. While I agree it feels much safer to always be in gear (should something arise that I need to move out of the way etc..) I didnt realize it may be damaging to the bike.

Thanks again everyone!

Gonna be a fun day, New Helmet, Jacket, seat cowl, fender eliminator all arrived yesterday... still waiting on my slip on. Ack! I had to deal with the "gap" on the seat cowl, but I fixed it by removing the slide on screw holder thingies on the side and filing down the little nub on the left side. I ended up using the bolts that held the strap on the seat I removed. It fits much better and there isnt a noticable gap anymore.

[rockNroll]

Originally Posted by Miraha

Gonna be a fun day, New Helmet, Jacket, seat cowl, fender eliminator all arrived yesterday... still waiting on my slip on. Ack! I had to deal with the "gap" on the seat cowl, but I fixed it by removing the slide on screw holder thingies on the side and filing down the little nub on the left side. I ended up using the bolts that held the strap on the seat I removed. It fits much better and there isnt a noticable gap anymore.

Pictures!

[Miraha]

Originally Posted by rockNroll

Pictures!

very soon, I will be tackling this fender eliminator install this evening (hopefully). I went with the tag LED bolts (license plate light is required) Im hoping I just splice into the existing light wires.

[ally99]

Originally Posted by Boom King

It might be a "noob" thing to do but I actually count the gear I am in to myself and sometimes even say to myself to help remember. "44,... 55,... back down to 44" etc. It's not like anyone else can hear you inside that helmet anyways. I find it helps. Gradually, I am learning to "feel" the gear by comparing speed and the rpm and also by sound.

]

I've been riding 2 years and I sometimes still count the gears in my head. I've gotten better at figuring out which gear I'm in at certain speed/rpm ranges, but I habitually tend to count anyway. It took me months to get good at figuring out my gears, but this is coming from someone who had never even mastered driving a manual transmission car, much less a sport bike! Seriously though, both of your issues are totally normal. Practice, ride, and take the MSF course, and you'll be fine.

[choneofakind]

For now, just make sure you get out and ride a ton. the more you ride, you'll figure out which gears go which speeds, and make sure to practice blipping on downshifts, no matter what you're doing, If you blip and smoothly let out the clutch, the back wheel won't lock up and make the bike buck. Plus it makes you sound like a pro when you're slowing down hard for a turn and your engine goes BRAAAHWWHWHwwrrrrrrr jk. but seriously just get out and ride and make a mental note to work on all the things that you mentioned above and after a while you'll be amazed that you were ever having trouble with them in the first place

[GeorgiaHooligan]

Perfectly normal for a noob. I remember those days, and after two years still make mistakes shifting on occasion. Before you know it youll be upshifting in turns and blipping the throttle on downshifts.Once you know the bike, alot of things just come together on your riding skills. Just dont grab the front brake ever in a turn like I did when I first started. And dont panic. Good luck.