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Old May 14th, 2022, 11:42 AM   #1
racered
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safety wired master link

On the street,I have always run master links with the lock clip supplied for the chain. Since getting involved with track bikes I noticed safety wire instead of clips for the master link. The first time I saw it I thought WTF!! ,but I keep running into more of such. So I asked why, and the answer was to keep from throwing chains off (losing the master clip).
I have never lost a chain or clip, my brother has thrown two. He says his clip was installed correctly. We both race super moto. I have raced my 250 Ninja 6 races this year, with clip, no failure. We both now have wired links, Am I nuts or is this standard procedure? Also my wire is .75 mm dia., the clip is .75 mm thick, the twist of the wire makes it enter the groove a bit high, looks sketchy to me.
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Old May 14th, 2022, 02:10 PM   #2
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Something is off if they come apart. And safety wire is not the solution.
..I'm not a believer in safety wires in other components either. Something is wrong with the nuts&bolts and/or the parts and/or the installation if you need safety wire.
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Old May 14th, 2022, 05:07 PM   #3
racered
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I just ordered some .65 wire, should pull in the groove tighter.
The safety wire on the wheel axle nuts, oil plugs, brake hardware, rad cap,etc is not to hold them tight. It is not used as a lock washer or locking agent.
The purpose of safety wire is to prevent a loose component from falling off.
Rules require the wire.
A properly wired oil plug or brake caliper bolt might loosen but will not back out.
The cause of the loose bolt or plug rarely is the bolt or plug, but rather "tool operator error".
Most will not admit it.
I lost the rear axle nut,and adjuster during a practice stint on my motard.
I had changed the rear sprocket the day before.
Tech did not catch the missing wire.
I had not tightened the nut sufficiently or wired it.
I made my practice laps without incident, but when I did a practice start the chain jumped a few teeth and I knew something was wrong. Eased back to the the pit and there it was, or wasn't.
Raced a backup bike.
Safety wire on the master link is a whole different deal.
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Old May 15th, 2022, 01:45 AM   #4
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Replace bolts, lock plates, locking pins, crews and nuts, what have you. Use a calibrated torque wrench. Pay attention to cleanliness of mating surfaces. You will not have poorly tightened parts.
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Old May 15th, 2022, 06:49 AM   #5
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You can torque any nut or bolt to specifications and in a high vibration area it will eventually come loose which is, as the OP stated, the reason why safety wire is used.
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Old May 15th, 2022, 08:54 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snake View Post
You can torque any nut or bolt to specifications and in a high vibration area it will eventually come loose which is, as the OP stated, the reason why safety wire is used.
Do you safety wire your rod bolts? Does the factory safety wire stuff? Why not?
200Hz right there.
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Old May 15th, 2022, 09:48 AM   #7
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Race bikes gets lots of maintenance and upgrades. Lots of disassembly and re-assembly. There's a certain amount of worn-out fasteners and lack of torque-wrench usage involved. Safety wire is 2ndary back-up for that.

My race org forbids using safety wire as primary retention for ML plates. Does allow using as backup though.



I've lost a ML clip once. Then I realised there actually 4 orientations to install clip, not just the 2 most people are familiar with. Never lost clip again after that.

Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; May 15th, 2022 at 02:30 PM.
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Old May 15th, 2022, 11:17 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ View Post
Race bikes gets lots off maintenance and upgrades. Lots of disassembly and re-assembly. There's a certain amount of worn-out fasteners and lack of torque-wrench usage involved. Safety wire is 2ndary back-up for that.

My race org forbids using safety wire as primary retention for MC plates. Does allow using as backup though.



I've lost a MC clip once. Then I realised there actually 4 orientations to install clip, not just the 2 most people are familiar with. Never lost clip again after that.
Now that makes sense, Thank you again for sharing helpful info!
Clips are going back on and then safety wired.
Paul
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Old May 15th, 2022, 11:30 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petrolhead View Post
Do you safety wire your rod bolts? Does the factory safety wire stuff? Why not?
200Hz right there.
Not trying to change your approach to race prep, I wire my stuff because I have made mistakes that encouraged me to use the wire.
I do respect the work you are doing on your 250, I just spent a little more time on mine for a little more forward motion. Tomorrow I will be on a go-cart track practicing better body position in corners, there is this guy that I need to pass!SUN_IMG_30816.jpg
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Old May 15th, 2022, 01:53 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racered View Post
Now that makes sense, Thank you again for sharing helpful info!
Clips are going back on and then safety wired.
Paul
You're most welcome!

A lot of clips are installed improperly. There are actually 4 different orientations of ML clip, not just 2. Most people know about facing open-end backwards. But don't known about facing beveled side inwards. Seems countre-intuitive since facing beveled side outwards seems to give better "fit". But the bevel makes it easier for clip to wedge itself off pin.

Like with washers, clips are made by stamping. Which creates one flat/flush side and one rounded/beveled side. Here's INCORRECT way to install clip, with flat side inwards and rounded beveled side facing outwards. You can tell beveled side is outwards from reflection on inner circle showing rounded edge. This rounded edge makes it easier for clip to slide sideways out of pin groove.



Here's CORRECT way to orient clip, with rounded beveled side facing inwards. The sharper edge of flat side bites into groove, doesn't provide a ramp and prevents clip from moving outwards.



I've used master-links with clips on most my bikes in last 40-yrs. Originally on 2-stroke dirt bikes to turbocharged Hayabusas without any problems. Only one time did I have ML clip fall off on my Ninja 250 race-bike. And that was caused by... installing clip with smooth beveled side facing outwards.

Last futzed with by DannoXYZ; May 15th, 2022 at 02:59 PM.
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Old May 15th, 2022, 05:13 PM   #11
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I was wondering if a bevel was involved but close inspection did not reveal a detectable bevel, then I saw the bevel in your pic so I checked my links again.
I can't feel or see a bevel so maybe good to go.
Thanks again for good info.
Loading the bikes now,S-Moto's and ninja, off to OMC in the morning.
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Old May 15th, 2022, 09:33 PM   #12
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Same goes to those clips. Throw them in the recycling and replace every now and then. They are springs at the end of the day. They lose their properties over the times they're put on and taken out.
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Old May 16th, 2022, 11:48 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racered View Post
Not trying to change your approach to race prep, I wire my stuff because I have made mistakes that encouraged me to use the wire.
I do respect the work you are doing on your 250, I just spent a little more time on mine for a little more forward motion. Tomorrow I will be on a go-cart track practicing better body position in corners, there is this guy that I need to pass!Attachment 48906
I'm constantly at odds with people about work methods.
It sometimes takes a long trained eye to spot a streched bolt and stuff like that. I work on cars for a living so my take on wrenching is a bit different than with your everyday enthusiast.
I have similar thoughts on using just water on track vehicles. The reasoning Im told that coolant is slippery if it leaks. My thought is, fix the damn leak before track day.

Quite often someone puts something together, leaks a bit and they blame ****** seals.
After 15 yrs you realize that maybe the prep work was bad after all
edit, Oh theres an auto *** function on forum posts .
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Old May 16th, 2022, 12:09 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petrolhead View Post
I have similar thoughts on using just water on track vehicles. The reasoning Im told that coolant is slippery if it leaks. My thought is, fix the damn leak before track day.

Quite often someone puts something together, leaks a bit and they blame ****** seals.
I take your point, and decent prep is always a good idea. But your particular example isn't great. Even if there are confirmed no leaks before the track day, even a low-speed crash on track can break something that then leaks. It can take a very long time to safely clean up coolant from a track surface, while water can be cleaned up in minutes. People who run coolant on a track and cause issues for other people if/when they crash and the track is unusable for an extended period are just being selfish. Not to mention that at track speeds and temperatures - the coolant isn't actually any better than water + a little water wetter or similar additive at moderating the engine heat, in fact it can be worse.
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Old May 16th, 2022, 01:59 PM   #15
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Yes, you want to increase scope of your safety envelope. Not just focus on specific builds in isolation. Many unexpected things can happen at track when all bikes are considered.

Racing orgs. have been around for long time, +100yrs. They've seen just about every possible scenario. Thus, have developed rules that may seen over-reaching, but is designed for efficient running of races. Such as 8-ltr belly-pans requirement. Sure, your bike may be in tip-top shape, but there are always failures on track for group as whole. For example, someone may miss shift, and zing their bike past redline to 20,000rpms and snap con-rod. Which goes out through engine-block and through radiator (seen this happen several times). Now you've got +4 ltr of oil and coolant gushing out of engine. Belly-pan's job is to catch that. Might not have ever happened to you. Add 100s of bikes over course of 10-years, and you'll have at least one or more incidents like these.

Ran into interesting development of race schedules with ASMAracing.com compared to others. Rather than have set start-times for every race, they just start 1st race at 1000am. Then after that race is done, start next race, then next and so on. This allows for variable durations to account for crashes, clean-up, moose on track, etc. Pretty nifty idea and so far, all their race Sundays have concluded on time before 4pm.
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Old May 16th, 2022, 02:03 PM   #16
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Also, statistically... 1/2 of people are below average...
Gotta devise your rules to cover unimaginable things they'll do...
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Old May 17th, 2022, 02:44 AM   #17
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I agree.
I'll get a lot of hate for this. There's not a track day when I dont see someone whom I'd ban from entering the track or even pits.
Which is not to say, my stuff dont break. I just dont bring them there already broken. Track time is too valuable.
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