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Old September 14th, 2012, 07:54 AM   #1
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Serious Lean Angle

I have been thinking about creating this thread for a long time. Now that I am setting up a 250 for pure track/race, I am even more interested in how far you can lean a 250 over without hard parts dragging enough to cause a real problem.

We all have seen bigger bikes with stupid max lean angle but I haven't see many 250's leaned over quite that far. Main question is, what would you have to do to a 250 to get it leaned over as far as the bigger bikes.

So post any pics you got and put in a few notes about the mods made to the bike to get it over that far.

Here is a example pic.

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Old September 14th, 2012, 08:30 AM   #2
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Raise the rearsets and grind the kickstand mount - everything else is up to you get the bike leaned over at speed.
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Old September 14th, 2012, 08:34 AM   #3
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I should have know... I already know the basics. Raise resets, kickstand, exhaust all race style upgrades from stock parts. I just don't see my 250 leaning over as far as my R6. So far I haven't see a pic of a 250 over as far as a larger bike and not sure why.
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Old September 14th, 2012, 08:53 AM   #4
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I saw a post about this earlier, I forget which thread it was... Something about not having to lean over as much to get the same results...
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Old September 14th, 2012, 10:06 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csmith12 View Post
.......So far I haven't see a pic of a 250 over as far as a larger bike and not sure why.
One of the reasons is the narrower tires.

Since lean angle is measured between the combined CG (bike + rider) and the point of contact of the tires, for same rider and hang-off distance, as well as turn radius and speed, wider tires make the bike lean more.
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Old September 14th, 2012, 10:10 AM   #6
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Found it...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjaone View Post
It's actually harder to drag knees on a 250 compared to bigger bikes. Being light weight the effect of hanging off is a bit exaggerated, and since the whole point of hanging off is to keep the bike more upright through the turn, things work a little too well.

Definitely take that kind of riding to the track, there is no safe place on any public road to drag a knee and you better be wearing a fully armored full leather suit with back and chest protectors.
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Old September 14th, 2012, 11:24 AM   #7
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Wider tires I guess is a valid reason (not knowing the science behind it).

Hans, thanks for your input. It makes sense that the 250 may be able to perform the same line at a lesser amount of lean angle as a larger bike but what if it could lean as much? See what I am getting at?

For example; it's common place for me to start to drag, pick up my knee off the tarmac and lean it until a feel the toe slider. Trust me... your knee down is NOT the limit of lean angle, hard parts are. And if hard parts are, that means you can go even faster while carving the same line, simply by leaning more.

Last futzed with by csmith12; September 14th, 2012 at 11:27 AM. Reason: wrong wording
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Old September 14th, 2012, 11:31 AM   #8
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Hmmm.....

There are some limiting factors at work here that I am missing. If there was such a thing as a factory kawi race team, what would they have done to the bike to maximize lean angle availability to the rider?
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Old September 14th, 2012, 01:13 PM   #9
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Chris, You still have the stock exhaust right? Get something with some more ground clearance.

I'll look for some pictures of @alex.s (tiffani, f*ck you tiffani, I forget your username) @Kevin2109 and Trailerboy-Max I forget yours also) and the gang. They had some good ones showing some great lean angle a while back.

ohoh! @Nemesis as well.


EDIT: more things you can do Chris, raise the tail, take off the feelers, grind the kickstand, rearstets,
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Old September 14th, 2012, 01:31 PM   #10
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Yea, imma buy a stock 250 for this endeavor. I have searched enough on here to know I need the bellow list WITHOUT question.

Race exhaust
Sidestand delete/mounts ground down
Rearsets
Clipons
Better front springs/fork oil
Rear shock replacement (w/ bones to raise the rear a bit)
Better brakes and steel lines

I have seen some great lean angle pics of @Rebox but don't know the extent of his mods. But even his lean angle in the pics I have seen is less than that of an equally modded 600cc race machine.

I have given the tire idea more thought too... If skinnier tires equals less available lean angle then supermoto's wouldn't be doing the crazy stuff they do. So I think that is busted.

EDIT: Remember I am not quite a n00b here.
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Old September 14th, 2012, 01:31 PM   #11
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I'll play. Have others, but this is accessible now

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Old September 14th, 2012, 01:39 PM   #12
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Paging @Rexbo. Time for some show-off shots yo!
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Old September 14th, 2012, 01:49 PM   #13
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haha ask and you shall recieve!

Dragging toe is the limit of lean so far on these bikes. I have dragged my shift lever as well, that was kinda scary hahah. After toe, you really can't lean much more, but I have to say the modern tires are freakin amazing.

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Old September 14th, 2012, 01:58 PM   #14
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Now we are getting somewhere.... Thanks guys! So... if you can get the exhaust/sidestand mount out of the way the next limit comes from the rearsets and feet on them. Do they not make race rearsets that go any higher and back? Or do I resort to get some custom made?

Eric's pic is the most I have ever seen a 250 leaned over and if it wasn't for his exhaust, he would have a little more available. Rexbo's pic may be equal but hard to tell from the angle of the photo.

Remember guys I switch back and forth between a 250 and R6. What is going to happen in my next race, imma get serious "in the moment" and lean it over like I do my R6 and go BOOM. Because I have no issues or reluctance to throw it down. I can't ride my 250 like that. Know what I mean?
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Old September 14th, 2012, 02:10 PM   #15
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Pegs/toe sliders for sure would be last to limiting factor. I've cut my pegs back a inch, and hacked the ends \ /.

The chrome cap on my stock exhaust has dragged before, remove that. My area P system, the header pipe extends a bit further, so the muffler sits a bit higher.
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Old September 14th, 2012, 02:28 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csmith12 View Post
Remember guys I switch back and forth between a 250 and R6. What is going to happen in my next race, imma get serious "in the moment" and lean it over like I do my R6 and go BOOM. Because I have no issues or reluctance to throw it down. I can't ride my 250 like that. Know what I mean?
i think you might have it backwards... you might get used to pushing the 250 over the limit... then you get to your 600 and wind up doing a triple backflip
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Old September 14th, 2012, 02:33 PM   #17
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You might be right alex.
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Old September 14th, 2012, 02:36 PM   #18
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Remember guys I switch back and forth between a 250 and R6. What is going to happen in my next race, imma get serious "in the moment" and lean it over like I do my R6 and go BOOM. Because I have no issues or reluctance to throw it down. I can't ride my 250 like that. Know what I mean?
Put the 250 down until toes touch! At that point the bike will be pretty prone to sliding and the whole chassis will be wobbling around, so I'm not sure you'd even want to be leaning more even if you could!
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Old September 14th, 2012, 02:43 PM   #19
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Put the 250 down until toes touch! At that point the bike will be pretty prone to sliding and the whole chassis will be wobbling around, so I'm not sure you'd even want to be leaning more even if you could!
as far as i know, there's no rule against adding bolt-on supports (like frame sliders)... you could add extra head support with an under cradle, and maybe a real fork brace instead of the fender support bracket? maybe the usefulness isn't very high because of the added weight.
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Old September 14th, 2012, 02:44 PM   #20
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So to go all extreme and stuff on you...

This is not possible on a 250, even if you could get everything up and out of the way and the tires would stick?

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Old September 14th, 2012, 02:46 PM   #21
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i think possible is not the right word. everything is possible.
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Old September 14th, 2012, 02:50 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rexbo View Post
Put the 250 down until toes touch! At that point the bike will be pretty prone to sliding and the whole chassis will be wobbling around, so I'm not sure you'd even want to be leaning more even if you could!
This is where I am currently although I have to say the chatter of both tires at the same time is exhilarating.

@htdub Imma try chopping off some of the rearset or get 4'' pegs. How long are yours after the chop?
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Old September 14th, 2012, 02:51 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csmith12 View Post
This is where I am currently although I have to say the chatter of both tires at the same time is exhilarating.

@htdub Imma try chopping off some of the rearset or get 4'' pegs. How long are yours after the chop?
have you done much to your suspension?
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Old September 14th, 2012, 02:53 PM   #24
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No... stock. Was planning on following the gsxr mod by rexbo.
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Old September 14th, 2012, 02:55 PM   #25
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Old September 14th, 2012, 02:59 PM   #26
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No... stock. Was planning on following the gsxr mod by rexbo.
Yeah, Do that mod ASAP. A better suspension will definitely help your bike feel more planted, and the extra ride height(rexbo's linkages) Will definitely make your turn in sharper...

Alternatively, you can take Alex's advice and make infinitely adjustable linkages using some threaded studs and well @alex.s can tell you
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Old September 14th, 2012, 04:30 PM   #27
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250 Lean

I'll play. Ended up dragging toes later in the day so I stopped trying to lean further.
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Old September 14th, 2012, 04:39 PM   #28
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kewl thread! i would like to see someone on their ninjette get low like this as well.

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Old September 14th, 2012, 05:50 PM   #29
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Another one on my 250 and since we're talking R6 I figured I would throw a couple of my R6 pics in too!

Oh and the last one is me leading the entire CVMA posse with Steve, Darren, Tiff, Alex, Josh, etc in tow!
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Old September 14th, 2012, 05:52 PM   #30
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ok, that's a fantastic group photo!
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Old September 14th, 2012, 06:14 PM   #31
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is it normal fora heterosexual to get a boner from all these pics; D?
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Old September 14th, 2012, 06:17 PM   #32
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is it normal fora heterosexual to get a boner from all these pics; D?
Nope... But if you're PERTOsexual, you may be forgiven lol
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Old September 14th, 2012, 08:26 PM   #33
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Quote:
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Now we are getting somewhere.... Thanks guys! So... if you can get the exhaust/sidestand mount out of the way the next limit comes from the rearsets and feet on them. Do they not make race rearsets that go any higher and back? Or do I resort to get some custom made?...
- woodcraft -

csmith...did you do your 1:27 Putnam lap on a stock suspension...??
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Old September 14th, 2012, 09:04 PM   #34
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Yes sir... only mod was a fender eliminator.

EDIT: and tires
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Old September 14th, 2012, 09:33 PM   #35
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Yeah if you bump the rear ride height up with my dogbones, you'll get a ton more lean angle clearance, its amazing how much an inch lift will do. I've actually had to start adjusting how I place my feet on the pegs now, or else I'll start wearing through my toe sliders like @aschika
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Old September 14th, 2012, 09:44 PM   #36
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Yeah if you bump the rear ride height up with my dogbones, you'll get a ton more lean angle clearance, its amazing how much an inch lift will do. I've actually had to start adjusting how I place my feet on the pegs now, or else I'll start wearing through my toe sliders like @aschika
I feel you man... I got to change something
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Old September 14th, 2012, 09:46 PM   #37
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Anyway... Don't be shy, got some some lean going on Unregistered? Let's see it.
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Old September 14th, 2012, 10:01 PM   #38
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Anyway... Don't be shy, got some some lean going on Unregistered? Let's see it.
I posted some of my pictures already? Are you asking to see more? Or are you trying to embarrass me and make me show my boots with duct tape on them because I ground away the toe sliders and outside of my boots?

But I will give you another lean angle picture from my younger days when I was faster and skinnier


And if you look on my belly pan, you can see where I drug the fairing on my TZ250
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Old September 14th, 2012, 10:33 PM   #39
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As soon as I get my ass on a track, I'll post some pics... Until then...
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Old September 15th, 2012, 06:45 AM   #40
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i brushed my elbow on the ripple strip a couple of weekends ago. that said that one is a really tall ripple strip
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