R1 rear shock

[alex.s]

Hi peoples,
I was bored today so I finally got around to putting an '04 R1 shock (ebay: $30) in my little ninja. custom adjustable links assembled (bits from here and there machined to spec: $10), r1 knuckle (ebay: $10), top of the shock mounts up directly to the stock ninjette frame if you're careful and get it in just the right spot. doesn't mount to the stock knuckle (same mount as the top, unlike the ninjette shock bottom mount), so i made sure to swap the knuckle for the r1 as well. I used 1cm collar spacers i machined and placed between the knuckle and the stock unmodified frame mount between the mount/knuckle and the hardware itsself (10mm on the r1 to 12mm on the ninjette step diff on the frame mount), and they evenly space the knuckle in the center of the mount. I also couldn't use the stock dogbones because the R1 knuckle doesn't have bearings where the links mount to it, so i had to use links with bearings in the eyes, which led me to use high strength rod-end heim joints (splurged and spent the extra $2 to get 300kpsi joints).
grade 8 or better hardware everywhere. most of it is rated above 200kpsi.

initial impressions are very positive. much firmer but it seems like its softer when hitting harder bumps. it has 20click adjustable compression and rebound as well as 10 step preload, so i will definitely need time to get that dialed in. the r1 knuckle reduction rate is tighter than the ninjette knuckle, so i've actually lost about %10 of the total travel on the rear. right now i've set the height to be raised just over one more inch in back to get my rake to a final angle of 24.7deg. (very nice ) but i've been fidgiting with this setting. i think i may end up backing the forks down a mm or two so its not as steep but keep the rear where it is. (looks like i might be drunk on the freeway... a little bit harder to stay perfectly straight... 25deg felt perfect imo)

total install time including having to go to the hardware store to get a bolt i wasn't expecting: ~4 hours. (it can be done in 1.5-2 if you know what you're doing)
weight change: about +2lbs (not counting difference in bolts)
times the bike almost fell off the jack/stands: once
advice to anyone trying this: get something to hang the bike from.

sorry for the horrible photo. its late. phone with no flash... i'll get better pics of it at the meetup tomorrow.

[Cazper]

From what I can see that looks SWEET!!! I can't wait to see it today!!! I'll get your impressions as well... seems like a much more affordable option than an Ohlins

[alex.s]

better pics...

yes, i know. she's dirty.

[randomwalk101]

The r1 shock looks pretty cool

[Cazper]

That shock is pure sex Alex!!! I can't wait until you get it dialed in!!! You know this means I'm going to have to front you the money to mimic this on my bike... come on bro... you know you wanna...lol

[tac12345]

now we only need a how to

[alex.s]

so i finally got my sags/preload set up correctly. cazper, the bike was honestly crap when you felt it compared to now. you need to ride it again now that i've got things set up better. compression feels good... i think i have the rebound a little too hard maybe. i think i need a new tire before i'll really be able to tell on the settings... my current rear is almost done and could be stickier and rounder. (i'm sure they 'right' settings will change when i swap the tire out too, so i'll have to start pretty much from the top at that point)

i'm down to help get it done on another bike. we can take photos and put together a DIY from that. the only parts you need to really order (that we can't get at local hardware stores) are (4) 10mm ID eye, 1.25 thread pitch ('fine threaded') threaded rod end bearings (i used high-durability riveted heim joints, you could use straight bearing rod ends if you want to space them; straight bearing mounts will make the rod itsself rub on the shock spring. i wouldn't recommend this because its putting unneeded stress on the bolts that secure these, but if you wanted to go this route i would recommend trying the 94??? katana stock dogbones, or pre-gen stock dogbones. both are too short so will give you about 2-3 inches raised tail, but you can find them for very cheap) anything above 150kpsi is good... you can get these heim joints at grainger, but you can find better quality for a cheaper price online... smallparts.com maybe? i got mine from some automotive racing store.

you'll also need a pair of 10mmX1.25X150mm or 165mm threaded rods to connect the heim joints together. i used two-end threaded studs which have threads on both ends, but not in the middle (looks nicer). the studs i got were rated at 300kpsi.

and of course you'll need the 04-05 R1 shock and R1 shock knuckle linkage itsself (looks like two triangle plates with a piece between). you won't be able to use the stock r1 dogbone for anything so if you can find it on ebay for cheaper without it, go for it. just make sure the shock isn't totally jacked... look at the bearings especially because it seems like most of the damage to the shocks on ebay are to the mount points because it seems people who are stripping bikes to sell on ebay don't really know how to disassemble them very well... maybe that means they're stolen?

anyway outside of that the only hard part is the collar spacer for the mount point between the knuckle and the frame... the frame is 12mm and the knuckle's bearing is 10mm. you have three options, swapping out the bushing in the knuckle for one with the same 12mm hole. machining out the bushing so its 12mm ID. or grinding some standard collar spacers so they're 10mm ID, 12mm OD, and about 2cm long. i had collar spacers so my brother machined them down to size with a wheel grinder and some patience.
the same is true for the swing-arm mounts to the dogbones. they're 12mm, so i used two more collars.

if you can find a threaded rod with 10mm on one end and 12mm on the other (or get a 12mm rod, and rethread one side to 10mm), you can get 12mm rod ends for the top where it mounts to the swing arm, and you wont need the second pair of collar spacers. if i was going to do it again, i would definitely do this instead of a second pair of collar spacers. alternatively you could use 12mm rod and rod-ends and drill out the knuckle mount for the dog-bones to 12mm...

let me know if/when you really want to start getting it setup

[Rexbo]

what kinda spring rate is that?

[Cazper]

I'll want to get my clip-ons and rear sets first... but this will definitely be on my "to-do" list

I'll definitely need your help because I was lost somewhere around the 2nd line...lol.

[alex.s]

8.0 kg/mm... very slightly over-sprung for my+bikes weight. maybe i'll swap to a 7.8 racetech...

[alex.s]

p.s. i'm pretty sure a lot of racing clubs have rules against changing the linkage from stock, so the zxr shock is most likely a better idea if you want to pass inspection...

[alex.s]

apparently i was wrong on the spring rate. checked race-tech's site and the stock is .930 kg/mm. they recommend a .900 for my weight.

[Cuongism]

Ummm alex, can I just give you the money while you get all those items I'll change your oil

[alex.s]

haha this might be a popular tech-day... that reminds me, i have turn signals for you if you want them, cuong.

[Cuongism]

Cool, definitely do. The stock shock is definitely hard on the bumps so the R1 sounds perfect.

[Nemesis]

Very cool.

Originally Posted by alex.s

p.s. i'm pretty sure a lot of racing clubs have rules against changing the linkage from stock, so the zxr shock is most likely a better idea if you want to pass inspection...

Not so much worried about the linkage swap but the fact that it extends too far down making it hard for a belly pan to fit.

[Cazper]

Sweet once Alex plays around with both his setup and the one for yours Cuong... mine should be perfect!!!

BTW, Cuong... had a question for you... but I'll PM you about it

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by Nemesis

it extends too far down making it hard for a belly pan to fit.

it extends down less than the stock knuckle, so anything that fits with stock linkage should fit with this. it is about 2cm wider though... maybe that makes a difference.

[randomwalk101]

alex,
how much sag in the rear did you set it at?

[HKr1]

Originally Posted by alex.s

apparently i was wrong on the spring rate. checked race-tech's site and the stock is .930 kg/mm. they recommend a .900 for my weight.

8.6 rear, front .93

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by randomwalk101

alex,
how much sag in the rear did you set it at?

the new setup has roughly 100mm of travel, static sag is low, about 3mm. rider sag is currently at around 26-28mm on the second preload setting

[randomwalk101]

Originally Posted by alex.s

the new setup has roughly 100mm of travel, static sag is low, about 3mm. rider sag is currently at around 26-28mm on the second preload setting

Is this for street or track? For street, the susp gurus (like Dave Moss etc) recommend 30-35mm rider sag.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by randomwalk101

Is this for street or track? For street, the susp gurus (like Dave Moss etc) recommend 30-35mm rider sag.

I've heard between 1/4 and 1/3rd of your total travel (1/4 being track and 1/3 being street)... but you're right, it does seem a little bit hard for the street. i need to gain some weight! :-P (or get a softer spring...)
thanks for the actual correct number, HKr1. I probably want an 8.4kg/mm.

[Rexbo]

did it raise or lower the rear ride height at all?

[alex.s]

the dogbones i made are adjustable... ends up being about 2 inches of adjustment, the stud lengths i used means stock height is at the lowest with +2 inches being the highest. i have it at about +1.5 inches right now. (note, i also have about a -1" lowered frontend in the triples)

[randomwalk101]

Alex
Why not use gsrx shock? So much easier. Don't need fancy machining parts.

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by randomwalk101

Alex
Why not use gsrx shock? So much easier. Don't need fancy machining parts.

... where's the fun in that?

[randomwalk101]

Originally Posted by alex.s

... where's the fun in that?

At the twisties or at the track..not turning wrenches.

[bob138]

Originally Posted by randomwalk101

Alex
Why not use gsrx shock? So much easier. Don't need fancy machining parts.

Which year gsxr shock? Is it direct fit?

I have a gsxr shock I think from a 03 750 sitting in the basement. Been toying with trying to swap it in.

Thx
Bob

[randomwalk101]

I believe it's the 07-09 gsxr 600..There is a thread in "Ninjette at Speed" sub-forum, on Rexbo's bike..there is instruction showing how you would install one. I followed that instruction and put one on mine.

Edit: here it is.
http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=59486

[alex.s]

Originally Posted by randomwalk101

At the twisties or at the track..not turning wrenches.

I find almost as much fun working on bikes as I do riding them. Don't get me wrong, this is not the easiest change to make to a bike. nor is it the easiest shock to switch to. I didn't mean to imply that it was. I'm sure most people wouldn't even notice the difference whether they saw it or rode it. but it was a challenge to figure out and i like challenges. maybe some people like taking the easiest route to get the result they want, but i like at least trying to have a deeper understanding of what I'm doing and be able to do something different and make it work. maybe in the future i'll build my own bike. if thats the case guess what, now i know a lot more about different kinds of suspension than i did before, and i feel confident i could get a rear shock setup (or at least i would know where to start, and what research would need to be done)

so to what you said, i say you're wrong. each person finds joy in their own way. I happen to also find joy working on motorcycles. not just riding them.

[Countersteer]

Alex, where did you source your heim joints? I just recently converted mine to a GSXR shock and want to add ride height adjustability. Thanks!

[alex.s]

smallparts.com

[Countersteer]

Originally Posted by alex.s

smallparts.com

Thanks!

[Flying]

Here we go!

[JohnnyBravo]

Looks sweet!

[Flying]

@alex.s I'm just starting to source parts for fabricating the new linkages that the bike will need to accept the R1 shock and have some questions.

Can you shed some details on the type of rod ends you used? How do riveted heim joints differ from a typical spherical rod end, if at all?
Any particular reason you chose fine over coarse threads?
Any thoughts on the use of a threaded hex-shaft for this?
http://www.mcmaster.com/#turnbuckle-...-rods/=14k2dtj

The current plan is to go with a pair of 12mm ID rod ends for the swingarm mount and a pair of 10mm ID for the R1 knuckle plates. In addition, a pair of 10mm ID x 12mm OD spacers will be machined and a bunch of partial thread flange bolts will be sourced.

[Alex]

Free bump.

[Snake]

Awesome!

[Flying]

Got all my hardware and spacers together, but I'm having a bit of a issue now.
The top of the R1 shock does not quite clear the 250's top frame mount. This prevents the bottom of the shock from pivoting towards the front of the bike enough to make a hole in the knuckle (triangle plates) line up with the bottom frame mount.



Not sure what's the issue here, the R1 parts are the same as @alex.s's. The shock is the same, the knuckle plates are marked "5VY". Maybe its poor tolerances on the welds of my 250 frame? Or even the casting of the shock's housing? Maybe even all the potholes I've driven into may have caused this.

I can either try to bend the frame mount, cut the frame mount, or cut into the shock. Others' input would be appreciated.