Inverted fork conversion

[old3]

This will be a sloooow thread.

I got my hands on a set of mint Honda 2000-01 929 inverted forks. The Tokico 4 piston caliper I already have mounted on my stock forks should be a direct bolt on. I plan to make a new axle and use the 300 front wheel/rotor with a set of bushings in the fork stubs.

I need to find a top clamp, a set of clip ons or a way to mount regular bars.

All Balls has tapered roller bearings to swap it over. I'll need the top one IIRC. One size was the same as what I already have on my stem, pretty sure it was the lower that was a match.

So, the ball is rolling. Good deal popped up so I jumped on it. If anyone knows of any other top clamps or bars that would work, please advise me. I registered on Fireblade.org to pick a few brains over there already.

I can't wait to be rid of the spaghetti fork tubes on this bike!

Thanks for any help.

[choneofakind]

The 929 normally has a brake caliper on both sides of the front wheel, correct? Since you'll be using the stock 300 front wheel and one caliper, what do you plan to do with the mounts on the left fork that would normally be used for the second caliper?

Grind them off? Leave them?

What's your plan for a fender?



I'm sure you've already got this thought of, but you'll want to keep the geometry with the new forks the same as the stock geometry. If I were doing it, I'd measure the distance from the triple to the axle with the stock setup, then install the new forks at the needed height to keep that consistent. What's your plan?

[old3]

I plan to just leave them swingin in the breeze for now. It is just two little tabs with a hole in each, not very obtrusive. I'll try to reuse the stock fender, a few brackets at most to get it on.

I don't think I need the twin calipers, the stock 13mm master and the single 4 piston is really very good.

[old3]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

I'm sure you've already got this thought of, but you'll want to keep the geometry with the new forks the same as the stock geometry. If I were doing it, I'd measure the distance from the triple to the axle with the stock setup, then install the new forks at the needed height to keep that consistent. What's your plan?

I don't worry about it too much, the stocker is so relaxed already. These are a little shorter, by 1/2" or so. Worst case I quicken the steering, which I might do anyway with a longer rear GSXR shock. I can raise the rear 1-1/8" with a different year shock. I may even try to bush a set of KTM clamps I have to fit the tubes, then run a regular handlebar. Rake/trail/height I'll deal with as I test it.

I'll juggle it as I need to ***when*** it is together.

[old3]

A bit of digging and my plan to use the stock front wheel rotor is out the window. The 929 uses a 330mm rotor! Good times!!!

I need to find a 929/954 2000-2007 or CBR1000 04-07 wheel and rotor. I've got a line on some already.

A single 330mm rotor with my current 4 piston caliper and the stock master should be excellent. It is already really good on the 300mm N300 rotor.

[JohnnyBravo]

[alex.s]

those forks are adorable. are you going to have them anodized orange too? i'm wondering what it might look like. i like your front wheel. do you have your own PC oven or do you outsource the coats? maybe it's not even pc? also... is that ball bearings i see? do you think you'll have excessive rebound with those balls instead of the tapered bearings?

[choneofakind]

Fwiw, I am a fan of the orange. I wish my bikes lent themselves better to being orange.

[JohnnyBravo]

Originally Posted by choneofakind

Fwiw, I am a fan of the orange. I wish my bikes lent themselves better to being orange.

Get a painter or some paint and hook it up!!!

[JohnnyBravo]

@alex.s

[alex.s]

wat

[JohnnyBravo]

he is changing bearings yo

[old3]

As he knows, I hope anyway, caged ball bearings are far superior to loose ball bearings. I'll use the tapered rollers as All Balls has them ready to drop in my 300 frame. If not, the caged ball bearings would be just dandy. Too bad the bike didn't have them in the first place, think Kawi saved a dime on each bike?

The orange paint is there cause the cheapo Kawi paint must have been water based and FDA approved for small children to ingest. It was leaving the wheels at a rather hurried pace. What a hulking POS the components and materials are. If the 300cc engine wasn't so decent I'd have sold this off by now.

I got the 929 upper clamp and clip ons yesterday. Looks like the lower clamp may have a tweak in it. The tubes aren't dropping in the upper clamp, they miss by a few mm. The clip ons are looking good, they have a nice rise in them so I expect no fairing clearance issues.

Hope to get this together before the 390 replaces the 300. At the pace KTM is holding it shouldn't be a problem!

[KawiKid860]

Sort of jealous, a 929/954 front end swap was one of the mods I wanted to do on my F4i. Direct bolt on and inverted forks just look so much nicer IMO.

[old3]

I'd have done conventionals forks too, if the fell in my lap as these did. Older GSXR or ZX6 forks would have been great also. Too bad they didn't use the EN6n/f forks if just for the bigger tubes and having the parts already there, wheel, one rotor, one caliper or use duals, the bike sure could use them anyway.

[JohnnyBravo]

Mmmmm Kawi paint... Doesn't sound tasty to me

[old3]

Dry and flakey, yuk. Maybe with melamine rich Chinese milk, cereal style?

[JohnnyBravo]

Never heard of it, but I will try most things

[mania]

I have wondered what a WP Suspension 4357
would cost. As used on KTM duke 200 or even on their
small 85 SX dirt bike

Seems like a popular fork & not too heavy looking yet 43mm
Have looked but never found prices on them.

Good luck on your project !
Will be fun to watch/read about

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by old3

A bit of digging and my plan to use the stock front wheel rotor is out the window. The 929 uses a 330mm rotor! Good times!!!

Although too much work for my taste, it is an interesting modification.

How much is the difference in diameter with the rotor of the Ninja 300?
If I remember correctly, @rojoracing53 created a support for adapting a caliper to his Ninja 250.
I hope he posts a link as a reference for you, in case you cannot find a Honda disc.

Do you have a link to a pic of the caliper you have installed now?

[old3]

The stocker is 290mm as I understand. The GSXR caliper thread I started was here,

http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=123397

but the pic has disappeared. I think you can see it in this pic though.

.

[rojoracing53]

I'm great as conceiving ideas and getting them going but not so much with following through. My front end mod is 100% complete but my thread could use a few updates but I wouldn't hold your breath or you'll end up asphyxiation like all those poor fools waiting for me to upload group ride videos

take and look here for ideas http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=120310

I don't know or care about anything bearing related so for everyone peace of mind leave me out of it

[old3]

I think my orange wheels are the bigger issue now.

I read your thread, nice work. I'll suggest trying the stock 250 master. I'm running a GSXR Tokico 4 piston caliper (non radial) and the stock master really give great feedback thru the lever with great power too. I think you might be giving up some feel with the bigger R6 master. Stock Ninja master is 13mm IIRC. Not fancy, but far better matched to the 4 pistons that the stock caliper's two. Way oversized for that.

I'm probably going up to the 330mm rotor if I can get this all together.

[rojoracing53]

Like I said that thread is lacking an end result. I've since moved on to another brembo master with a smaller piston made for single 4 pot calipers on supermoto style bikes. The stock Ninjette master piston would be so small the throw would be way to much to realistically usable. It's all a matter of balance and preference but with no one liking the exact same setup and no one able to give an exact answer you'll end up having to try a few setups to get a baseline and then you know exactly which way you want to go from there.

I can't ride other peoples ninjette's, their brakes just suck so bad in stock for

[old3]

I agree about stock brakes, and I come from dirt/supermoto back ground so the whole feel/power balance is big for me. I have yet to ride a brake as nice as my 06 Husky 450SMR. Like a brake for a friggin train, and single finger control that was unreal.

What piston is on the master you use now. I only mentioned to try the stocker as it really surprised me on mine. I'm sure I'd go to a better one at some point so please spill the info!!! Radial master?

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by rojoracing53

...........take and look here for ideas http://www.ninjette.org/forums/showthread.php?t=120310

Thanks, Jason

[JohnnyBravo]

I have progressed to the point where I feel my front suspension is squishy and could use some modding, hopefully emulators an such will get me where I need and want to be!
Some new balls as well... Getting a little slop in the front an some clanking

[old3]

Originally Posted by JohnnyBravo

I have progressed to the point where I feel my front suspension is squishy and could use some modding, hopefully emulators an such will get me where I need and want to be!
Some new balls as well... Getting a little slop in the front an some clanking

Don't let that front end slop go on for long. Safety first and that is an accident waiting to happen.

[JohnnyBravo]

I won't @old3 it doesn't help the confidence at all

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by old3

Don't let that front end slop go on for long. Safety first and that is an accident waiting to happen.

Originally Posted by JohnnyBravo

..........it doesn't help the confidence at all

Yes, it is a quick way to fillet-weld break-test any frame.

[JohnnyBravo]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Yes, it is a quick way to fillet-weld break-test any frame.

It will get that hot? I know a guy with over 12k miles(4months ago) on a 300... He still thinks it runs fine, but the more I ride the less I like bits and pieces of it! Mostly suspension at this point. Most folks aren't quite as picky an persnickety as I though!

[old3]

Originally Posted by Motofool

Yes, it is a quick way to fillet-weld break-test any frame.

Especially the recycled tuna can steel of the 300s!

"Yes, it is a quick way to fillet-weld break-test any frame." I think he means the clunking will transmit enough force to stress the weaker parts of the frame.

Honestly I'd be more worried about a bad wobble in a fast corner first causing an off, but the very mild and cheap steel frame isn't going to hold up to really severe stress. The scarred races that have been posted must have had the stem moving pretty far in the frame. That is a lot of force slamming the frame under braking or steering, pot holes, etc. Picture a hammer smacking the head tube ever bump. .

[JohnnyBravo]

do you really need that tone, and condescension? I may not love everything about my bike, but don't get me wrong... I DO LOVE IT!!!
@old3

P.S.
I'm glad I saw more to that post after I posted, but my thoughts are the same. I do appreciate the info though.
Off to search for postings you speak of

[old3]

Without tone and condensation? Dude, is been raining here all day!

I guess I should try to be more sensitive to the Ninja 300's feelings? LOL! I love mine too, but it just is what it is. I love the lightness in how it handles, the steering and flickability. The small bore feel is there, it just is one of the budget bikes and that brings the stuff I hate.

I'd buy another, unless KTM brings a better package to work with.

[Motofool]

Originally Posted by JohnnyBravo

It will get that hot?.....

Originally Posted by old3

.........."Yes, it is a quick way to fillet-weld break-test any frame." I think he means the clunking will transmit enough force to stress the weaker parts of the frame..........

Precisely !!!

Thanks old3 and sorry JohnnyBravo for my poor English.

Yes, any sustained persistent hammering, especially the one coming from a loose head column-stem, leads to cracks in the welded joints of any frame, which are the weakest links (more fragile molecular structure than the steel of the frame).

"Metal fatigue is the progressive and localized structural damage that occurs when a material is subjected to cyclic loadings."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_fatigue

That is one of the the reasons for panels of airplanes's skin to be joined by rivets and for our bikes to have suspension and pneumatic tires.

Leave alone the torture for those tracks and little balls in the bearings.

If you want to keep the ball bearings, you must maintain the play of the head column-stem well and frequently adjusted.

[JohnnyBravo]

thanks
It stopped raining here today yay... Sorry bout your weather old

[old3]

It's all good, tomorrow mid 40s and dry! Ride tomorrow for sure! Salt will be mostly washed away too. Might even hose the thing off too.

When you get the bearing out, inspect the races closely. I'd bet they have irregular groves worn in them that the balls hammered in. One pic I saw looked like a dremel had been used to file in a long scar.

[JohnnyBravo]

I ride about everyday, waiting till I get a call that most of the black ice is gone... We have two or more places where water always runs across the road, it never used to happen

[old3]

A set of conventional forks/triples off a 98 GSXR600 just fell in my lap. He may have the whole front wheel and complete brake set up too, all in like new condition.

Looks like the CBR forks might be up for sale cheap!

Flat top clamp so bar mounts will be an easy fit...

Fully adjustable and ready to go. Dual disc front brakes are back on my mind too. The single 330mm CBR rotor would have been fine, but if it is all there anyway, why not?

[JohnnyBravo]

Sweet