pre-gen Ninja vs R3

[xorbe]

So I sold my pregen a couple weeks ago, and have had the R3 for about a month. Really do miss the pregen, but in an effort to work down to just one bike, needed something to handle speedy CA freeway traffic a bit better. There's a whole lotta things I miss about the pre-gen.

R3:
Peak power, low rpm torque, fuel injection.
Getting 60 mpg vs ~50 when cruising. Stop'n'go is similar mpg, 50-ish.
Nice console with fuel gauge, clock, trips, oil, gear, etc.
Low RPM assist is kinda nifty even if unnecessary.
"Flash to pass" (though I have little use for it).

Pre-gen:
Liked the comfy squishy low seat.
More nimble around town, though this was a liability on the freeway, twitchy on grooves.
Missing the extra RPMs at the top (14 vs 12.5)
Pre-gen audibly screams better. R3 kinda reminds me of YT dirt bike videos, heh. Not sure why this is. Seems like 270* crank would sound more even than 180* of the pre-gen. edit: bzzt, R3 is 180*
Banana seat / fairings so simple to remove.
Gearing, R3 imo has an oddly short 2nd, more like a 1.5 gear.
About 30 pounds lighter, iirc.
Helmet lock.
Center stand.
Larger fuel tank, though if not stopping the R3 will match the pre-gen on distance. Around town the pre-gen may go a bit farther.
Cheaper insurance.

I am not 100% sure, but the R3 front brake is kinda weak sauce, but I was also riding a 600 with a stronger brake, and I can't quite remember the pre-gen braking strength now. Anyway R3 needs a little boost in the front brake dept, imho.

Both look nice, but the pre-gen had that old classic look, I liked it!!!

[Roark]

Interesting analysis!

The only reason I'd sell my pregen for a newer 300cc is for the simplicity of fuel injection..

Now, if I only had ONE bike, I'd probably keep the pre gen! It's just so simple, yet it does many things sorta well that a lot of bikes do horribly.

[adouglas]

Originally Posted by Roark

The only reason I'd sell my pregen for a newer 300cc is for the simplicity of fuel injection..

This oft-heard comment always puzzles me.

How is FI simpler, aside from the trivial matter of having to move a choke lever at startup?

Is using a choke really that complicated?

[Bigballsofpaint]

Originally Posted by adouglas

This oft-heard comment always puzzles me.

How is FI simpler, aside from the trivial matter of having to move a choke lever at startup?

Is using a choke really that complicated?

Im in this boathouse. I hate carbs. They "gunk up" or stick/need cleaning much more than FI. If you regularly ride your bike, its really not a big deal, but being where were from, if I let my 250 sit for the winter (say 3 months) it runs like total garbage if it even starts up at all. Que having to take the cabrs off to clean them and all the threads popping up about bike not starting, etc.

My FI bikes, nevermind making more power and being able to slap on a PC or something if I want to get it tuned, they start up everytime without fuss. Never had them sit for a year or anything, but im much less worried during the winter and therefore don't really need to ride them during the cold months "just in case".

I ride the 250 every month during the winter, a 15 minute jount around the block does the trick though.

I also didn't grow up with carbs like you dinosaurs, so the first time I took it apart to clean it was a little worrysome.

[xorbe]

Fuel injection seems to provide better low end torque, and better performance at higher elevations. My pre-gen would occasionally hiccup around corners, which was unsettling.

The R3's grunt for taking off when lane splitting from a stop around town is very nice. It's almost trying to pop a wheelie it feels like. The pre-gen was a little sketchy when filtering to the front, I had to choose carefully to not split with faster vehicles.

I've got a very OEM looking helmet lock on order (Kitaco, JP). Spools to counter lack of center stand. Might have an upholstery shop cover the seat with another layer of foam, but that might upset the rider lean angle. The seat is not bad, as I can ride 3 hours fine, but it's not pre-gen comfort. That's probably the biggest thing for me, the old Ninja was just super comfy for me. The other things aren't so important. I'd ask for another 1/2 or 3/4 gallon bigger tank next. Then to better center 2nd gear between 1st and 3rd.

[HoneyBadgerRy]

What is low end assist and flash to pass?

["A"]

Brakes, who needs them, they only slow you down.

[xorbe]

Originally Posted by HoneyBadgerRy

What is low end assist and flash to pass?

As you let the clutch out, before it engages, the bike's ecu bumps up the idle speed, to reduce stalling.

Flash-to-pass is a convenient momentary button under the left hand index finger, that flashes the high beam while depressed. I actually don't know what the accepted convention / etiquette is for using it. I guess flash-to-pass + horn + wheelie + middle finger should do it.

[HoneyBadgerRy]

Originally Posted by xorbe

As you let the clutch out, before it engages, the bike's ecu bumps up the idle speed, to reduce stalling.

Flash-to-pass is a convenient momentary button under the left hand index finger, that flashes the high beam while depressed. I actually don't know what the accepted convention / etiquette is for using it. I guess flash-to-pass + horn + wheelie + middle finger should do it.

Yeah, I have no idea what the proper etiquette is, typically I beep the horn twice.

And those two things seem useless. I would never use the highbeak switch, and I'm personally confident enough that I would never need the help with stalling, but they do no harm, so why not have them.

[xorbe]

It's sort of fun to use the clutch to idle the engine up and down at a stop light, hah. It's like pre-ignition before the main thruster.

[Toly]

Originally Posted by xorbe

R3 kinda reminds me of YT dirt bike videos, heh. Not sure why this is. Seems like 270* crank would sound more even than 180* of the pre-gen.

Huh, are you sayin' that R3 has 270 degree crank? I'm pretty sure that it's a 180 deg parallel twin.

[Roark]

@adouglas, I should rephrase my original comment.. When I said "simplicity", I meant "ease of maintenance".

I've had 80s/90s Toyota pickups in the family for nearly 10 years, including both Carb and FI models.. No matter how well we tinker and adjust the carbs, they always seem to have an issue cold starting or climbing through moderate altitude or returning consistent MPGs and sometimes all three! Yet with the FI models, we hopped in, turned the key, and off we went.

I'd own the FI 300cc if I didn't have a workspace, the ability to tinker, or if I worked a very busy job.. That's not to say that the carbs on the Ninja are hard to work on, but the face that they DO require working on every once in a while is enough for a lot of people to prefer the "simplicity" of FI. And yeah, I know FI could fail mid-roadtrip and leave someone stranded while a carb could be worked on with a screwdriver and 2 sockets, but that just isn't very likely in most cases, especially for commuting/fun riding, which is what most riders use their bikes for anyways.

EDIT: I'll continue riding the Ninja as I have for the last 1.5 years, and I'll continue using the very uncomplicated choke on startup.. But when the day comes that I upgrade to a FI bike, you likely won't get ANY complaints from me..

[xorbe]

Originally Posted by Toly

Huh, are you sayin' that R3 has 270 degree crank? I'm pretty sure that it's a 180 deg parallel twin.

Yeah, the official page says 180 degree crank. Somewhere, someone has a wrong spec listed for that. Anyway, so if it's the same as the Ninja, then why does it sound so different? Independent exhausts?

[HoneyBadgerRy]

Originally Posted by xorbe

Yeah, the official page says 180 degree crank. Somewhere, someone has a wrong spec listed for that. Anyway, so if it's the same as the Ninja, then why does it sound so different? Independent exhausts?

Because the entire head, pistons, and cam timing is different.

[SLOWn60]

Originally Posted by HoneyBadgerRy

What is low end assist and flash to pass?

Flash to pass is on most if not all bikes, cars & trucks in Europe, Australia and at least Kenya in Africa.
It is used to flash and warn a vehicle you are overtaking. Contrarily; it's been my experience that most drivers here in North America flash to give way to another vehicle! I have not seen or been aware of a flash to pass button on the North American market motorcycles I've had contact with. Newer (the last 10 years or so?) North American cars & trucks do have the simple ability to flash.

[HoneyBadgerRy]

Originally Posted by SLOWn60

Flash to pass is on most if not all bikes, cars & trucks in Europe, Australia and at least Kenya in Africa.
It is used to flash and warn a vehicle you are overtaking. Contrarily; it's been my experience that most drivers here in North America flash to give way to another vehicle! I have not seen or been aware of a flash to pass button on the North American market motorcycles I've had contact with. Newer (the last 10 years or so?) North American cars & trucks do have the simple ability to flash.

The only motorcycle I've seen with it is my dads hypermoto, and I had no idea what it was for. Now I know.

[xorbe]

Originally Posted by HoneyBadgerRy

Because the entire head, pistons, and cam timing is different.

Unless I read a totally pos R3 review, somewhere I read that the R3 also has offset cylinders.